Denon a1h vs Yamaha a8a

S

sal

Audiophyte
Hi
Could you help me on which one is better for sound quality and room correction?
I'm only interested in quality in music.
Which of the two units creates a more realistic rendering of a piece of music?
Thank you
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Spartan
Your speakers, and the placement of them, will have much more to do with the quality of sound output when playing music than either of those two very capable AVRs. You may find one more user friendly than the other based on your own preferences.
 
S

sal

Audiophyte
Ok
You are right, but if we assume that everything is in line as far as the placement of the speakers in the room. Which of the two machines do you think has better sound fidelity?
I mean if someone has found themselves with both in operation, not necessarily at the same time, and has concluded that one is superior in some respect to the other.
Thank you


 
Tankini

Tankini

Senior Audioholic
As Trebdp83 stated in his comment, both are very capable AVR,s both are flagship units. If one had both AVR,s in the exact same setup, speakers, room etc, In direct mode for stereo listing, "music" one would be hard pressed to find a difference in sound quality. Now with DSP, PEQ and/or different sound fields applied one may find changes in sound when DSP is used. Speaking for myself, I'd be happy with either AVR.
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I've own both Denon's (AVP-A1HDCI, AVR-5308) and Yamaha's (CX-A5100, RX-A3080).

I can get all of them to sound equally great- without using any kind of Automatic Room Correction. But each AVP/AVR is set up differently.

@PENG has concluded with actual measurements that for Room Correction, DLBC (Dirac) is #1, Audyssey XT32 (w/ app) is #2, and Anthem ARC-G is #3.

So I would say that if you want the best room correction, then get the Denon since it can have both DLBC ($800 upgrade) and Audyssey XT32.
 
O

Oddball

Junior Audioholic
It would be actually interesting to understand what YPAO does nowadays. I don't want to taint it with my experiences 2 or more years ago.

I can say that Denon with Audy X will almost give you all the flexibility you will ever want, with probably a bit more work. If the setup is bookshelves and subs, you can probably get that done easier and with Denon and DLBC, provided there are no odd room properties.

Not to contradict the ultimate authority, but for some systems, REW and MSO seem to work even better for the bass management than any of the automated ones. I guess we have not reached a point in bass management where a machine is actually a clearly superior entity.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
It would be actually interesting to understand what YPAO does nowadays. I don't want to taint it with my experiences 2 or more years ago.

I can say that Denon with Audy X will almost give you all the flexibility you will ever want, with probably a bit more work. If the setup is bookshelves and subs, you can probably get that done easier and with Denon and DLBC, provided there are no odd room properties.

Not to contradict the ultimate authority, but for some systems, REW and MSO seem to work even better for the bass management than any of the automated ones. I guess we have not reached a point in bass management where a machine is actually a clearly superior entity.
Well a lot of people like me prefer to leave the frequencies above 100Hz alone and just manually PEQ the frequencies from 20-100Hz.

However, if I were still using Denon/Marantz today, I would probably not even do manual PEQ for the bass and just use Audyssey "Dynamic EQ Bypass L/R" like I used to do years ago. :D

In fact if I were in charge of Yamaha, I would want Yamaha to remove YPAO and use Audyssey so that I can do Audyssey DEQ Bypass L/R plus have Bass/LFE Management in Pure Direct Mode. :D
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Ok
You are right, but if we assume that everything is in line as far as the placement of the speakers in the room. Which of the two machines do you think has better sound fidelity?
I mean if someone has found themselves with both in operation, not necessarily at the same time, and has concluded that one is superior in some respect to the other.
Thank you
As others mentioned, they will sound the same to most humans if used without any dsp functions (that include also room correction such as YPAO, Audyssey, PEQ, GEQ etc.) and are used within their output capabilities. If you use DSP functions then only you can determine which has better sound quality, and it will be impossible to determine which has better "fidelity" that usually means accuracy/transparency because there is little to nothing on the internet that one can find about measurements on that metric.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Flip a coin. Might depend which flavor of eq/setup (Audyssey/Dirac vs YPAO). You can get fairly much same sound quality from other models in each brand's line up below the flagship models, too....
 
S

sal

Audiophyte
From what I understand, the issue of the sound is a matter of settings. But I believe it is also a matter of implementing the amplifier stage as well as the analog-digital stage. And all this in how you cooperate for the best fidelity result, right? And here the question is more than the two units, does it have a better implementation over the specific stages?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
From what I understand, the issue of the sound is a matter of settings. But I believe it is also a matter of implementing the amplifier stage as well as the analog-digital stage. And all this in how you cooperate for the best fidelity result, right? And here the question is more than the two units, does it have a better implementation over the specific stages?
That is true, but It is more complicated than that, making it impossible to give a Y/N to such talks. The fact is, there are many different ways in terms of implementation, and may or may not result in significantly different overall results. The difference implementation schemes often have pros and cons, and the designer/implementer's goal could be to optimize cost, efficiency, output voltage, current, power, reliability, longevity, distortions, noise, and many other metrics to suit different users/applications. There are no magical formula there, but the important point is, of all the metrics, and those not mentioned, "fidelity" is probably among the easiest to tell, because bench measurements will tell you which product has the best results verifiable by bench tests, using highly precise instruments such as those made by Audio precision, used by Audioholics, ASR and Stereophile.

So, if you are keen on "fidelity" as measured by those reviewers, just go with the bench test results, and ignore what forum members such as some of us on Audioholics may tell you about their subjective views on "fidelity", "sound quality" etc. For example, many will rule out class D amps and favor class AB, and some would only go with class A, and on preamp, dac, some will tell you the so called dual differential implementations from input through output is the best for accuracy, whereas others would counter that by citing the top ranking ones based on most measurable metrics are often implemented without using the so called truly/fully differential schemes.

Who are you going to believe then? ymmv, for me I would go with specs and measurements that are immune to Placebo and other known bias that we human all possess and are influenced by a little too easily.
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
From what I understand, the issue of the sound is a matter of settings. But I believe it is also a matter of implementing the amplifier stage as well as the analog-digital stage. And all this in how you cooperate for the best fidelity result, right? And here the question is more than the two units, does it have a better implementation over the specific stages?
More sound differences will be from particular implementations of eq/dsp than the hardware design by a good bit IMO/IME. I'd simply choose an avr on feature set and price. I'd tend to consider just the major brands like Yamaha, Denon, Marantz and maybe Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer....this is a good site to compare feature set zkelectronics.com
 

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