Denon 4311 Vs. Denon 3311

[murthyvs]

Hi all -

As you all know, Denon 4311 is 40% more expensive than Denon 3311 ($1999 Vs $1199). I am curious to know if there is $800 worth of upgrade stuff in Denon 4311.

I have reviewed the differences on Denon's website: http://usa.denon.com/US/Product/Pages/ProductComparision.aspx?CatId=3d9614d1-8000-4106-ab91-8192242cab83&SubId=40b5820d-83c2-4e93-9909-60aae60e0bdd&pids=082714d9-ea72-4069-9b6b-a39c23290d98|b44a517c-7e15-493c-8373-dbd2a1f57f63

and unsure about few things.

1. What kind of video chips and versions do they use in these models?
2. Looks like they both use AKM DAC's. Denon 3311 has AL24 just for L/R. Does it really matter? (I dont know much about AL24 processing)

If they both use same video chips and there isn't much to gain from all channel AL24 processing, I am in for 3311 and give those amp $ on Emotiva

(Please give me some heads up if there are some important missing features. Traditionally not a big fan of audyssey stuff)

This new one will replace my Denon 4308 - excellent SQ but poor VQ. Its going out because of its VQ.

The AVR will power my 7.1 system (LCR 6-ohm speakers) and no intention to add a second sub or additional speakers. In my new place, I may not have the luxury to use multizone features. I listen at moderate levels: 20-30dB @ 75dB on SPL.

Your inputs are greatly appreciated.

Thanks!!!

 

[jostenmeat]

I am sorry, but thinking of blowing 2k on a receiver "upgrade" (if even an upgrade, because the 4308 is solid) only on the factor of VP seems totally ludicrous to me.

If VP is that important to you, then that's what you need to buy, a video processor. At 2K, the first one I'd research is this:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/517656-REG/DVDO_MM606_iScan_VP50_Pro_High.html

To me, the idea of spending 2k for VP in a receiver, is like spending 2k for audio on a TV. What the heck.

 

[PENG]

Jostenmeat is right on. I have the 4308 also and would consider it a down grade going to a 4311 from quality standpoint, but the 4311 certainly include the latest feature set. Upscaling is a grossly over hyped thing, on most screens watching real world material the widely reported better PQ are mostly due to Placebo, IMHO. Unless you have a 60"+ screen I doubt you will notice a difference in PQ whether you use the AVR's VP or pass through only.

The quality of the DVD itself has the most impact. If the transfer is good, most any current BDP can do a job as good as any ABT equipped AVR (perhaps except for those with 60+ screens watching from less than 10'). If the transfer is bad, nothing can make it look good.

If you must have the best upscaling VP, the OPPO 83 or its replacement will only set you back $499. In fact I still have a touch of doubt about whether the 4311 has the ABT VRS. Some owners reported it has, but if it is so important for you, I suggest you email Denon for confirmation.

Regarding the different AL24's, whether the difference is audible or not, the 4308 has the advance AL24 for all channels, same as that in the flag ship 5308 model. The 4311 and 3311 have the AL24+ (not all channels).

 

[murthyvs]

Hi Peng, Jostenmeat - Thanks for your inputs. Yes, I have thought of keeping my 4308. I am projecting from 14' on to a 106" screen with Epson 8100 and I am not satisfied with PQ of my old dvd's (atleast to my eyes)! I tested the same material with 3310 and there is a significant difference. Oppo was still in my list until I found a good price for 3311 from *****expo.

Jostenmeat is right on. I have the 4308 also and would consider it a down grade going to a 4311 from quality standpoint, but the 4311 certainly include the latest feature set. Upscaling is a grossly over hyped thing, on most screens watching real world material the widely reported better PQ are mostly due to Placebo, IMHO. Unless you have a 60"+ screen I doubt you will notice a difference in PQ whether you use the AVR's VP or pass through only.

The quality of the DVD itself has the most impact. If the transfer is good, most any current BDP can do a job as good as any ABT equipped AVR (perhaps except for those with 60+ screens watching from less than 10'). If the transfer is bad, nothing can make it look good.

If you must have the best upscaling VP, the OPPO 83 or its replacement will only set you back $499. In fact I still have a touch of doubt about whether the 4311 has the ABT VRS. Some owners reported it has, but if it is so important for you, I suggest you email Denon for confirmation.

Regarding the different AL24's, whether the difference is audible or not, the 4308 has the advance AL24 for all channels, same as that in the flag ship 5308 model. The 4311 and 3311 have the AL24+ (not all channels).

 

[PENG]

I tested the same material with 3310 and there is a significant difference. Oppo was still in my list until I found a good price for 3311 from *****expo.

For a screen that big the Faroudja probably is not up to the task. Did you try letting your player do the scaling? What kind of player do you have?

Actually for any displays larger than 52" I would stick with BD but that's just me. The 3310 has the ABT for sure but again I am still skeptical about the XX11 despite some owner's and magazine reports. Not that I care about the VP (and I really don't) but I would still like to see it from Denon, that they have the ABT and not back to Faroudja or something else. By the way the replacement of the Oppo 83 apparently won't be using ABT.

 

[EJD]

Why not pick up a BDP-83 from Audiogon (the only place you can get a non-SE version these days) and see if it does what you need? People are putting them up there pretty frequently in the hopes that the BDP-93 will be just as good. It may or may not be when it comes to upscaling because as PENG pointed out - it's going to use a different chipset.

If it doesn't meet your expectations, and you really want to give the Denons a shot, you will almost certainly be able to sell it for pretty close to (if not exactly) what you paid for it.

 

[jostenmeat]

Hi Peng, Jostenmeat - Thanks for your inputs. Yes, I have thought of keeping my 4308. I am projecting from 14' on to a 106" screen with Epson 8100 and I am not satisfied with PQ of my old dvd's (atleast to my eyes)! I tested the same material with 3310 and there is a significant difference. Oppo was still in my list until I found a good price for 3311 from *****expo.

With that setup, you will never be satisfied with DVDs, period. Give up. Life will be easier, at least it was for me, none since '07. edit: please note that BD has over 600% of the pixels of DVD, and NO THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN EVER DO TO GET THOSE BACK, except for an algorithm's guessing at what those roughly 1,700,000 missing pixels might be, and that's at many/double digit times per second.

With that potential budget, and now knowing what your rig consists of, you want to upgrade your display. Of course as with audio, it's the same with video in that setting the room up itself will lead to the highest value.

But even if you kept your room as is, and your display as is, with that budget, an outboard VP will be waaaaaaay more beneficial than a simple bluray player, in terms of video.

 

[murthyvs]

I am using the PS3 slim.

Actually, I heard from a friend that Newegg had recently done a 999 for Yamaha Z7 and I am pretty much impressed with Gene's review (looks like he has one). May be I will wait for two weeks and see if it can go any lower. It looks like a steal at that price and given the benchmark PQ it fits my interests. I am aware of those FW issues but looks like they have been fixed since then. I just gave it a listen at our local BB and I liked it on DefTech's and B&W's.

Spec and performance wise Z7 is a close match to 4308. Z7 runs little hot and I can give sufficient ventilation.

Last time I checked, it was rumored that Oppo 93 has two prototype versions: ABT 2015 and Marvell KYOTO G2. I am not sure which one goes for production release or is it formally out that Oppo will be using Marvell KYOTO G2?

For a screen that big the Faroudja probably is not up to the task. Did you try letting your player do the scaling? What kind of player do you have?

Actually for any displays larger than 52" I would stick with BD but that's just me. The 3310 has the ABT for sure but again I am still skeptical about the XX11 despite some owner's and magazine reports. Not that I care about the VP (and I really don't) but I would still like to see it from Denon, that they have the ABT and not back to Faroudja or something else. By the way the replacement of the Oppo 83 apparently won't be using ABT.

 

[murthyvs]

Yep, I agree. I am planning to calm down for two weeks and do some research on video processors and see which fits my interests well.

Yamaha Z7 is on my radar if I decide to go with AVR.

Thanks for inputs .. much appreciated.

With that setup, you will never be satisfied with DVDs, period. Give up. Life will be easier, at least it was for me, none since '07. edit: please note that BD has over 600% of the pixels of DVD, and NO THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN EVER DO TO GET THOSE BACK, except for an algorithm's guessing at what those roughly 1,700,000 missing pixels might be, and that's at many/double digit times per second.

With that potential budget, and now knowing what your rig consists of, you want to upgrade your display. Of course as with audio, it's the same with video in that setting the room up itself will lead to the highest value.

But even if you kept your room as is, and your display as is, with that budget, an outboard VP will be waaaaaaay more beneficial than a simple bluray player, in terms of video.

 

[PENG]

I am using the PS3 slim.

I don't care what people say, the slim upscales as good as anything else on my 50" elite plasma.

Actually, I heard from a friend that Newegg had recently done a 999 for Yamaha Z7 and I am pretty much impressed with Gene's review (looks like he has one). May be I will wait for two weeks and see if it can go any lower.

As you said the Z7 is a close match to the 4308. I have to agree with you on this because I have compared their specs. The Z7 allows you to turn off the power amp section but I don't think the theoreticaly advantage is audible. The 4308 on the other hand has the Audyssey. So in the end what you gain with the Z7 is the onboard ABT. For $999, I would say Jostenmeat is right, you may as well go for an external VP that you can keep for a long time, instead of having second thought about the date Z7 a couple of years later.