Denon 3808 vs. Yamaha 3800 receivers

[mike c]

HDMI doesn't allow the playback of SACD, while Denon Link III does (along with DVD-A, etc.) At least HDMI 1.1 doesn't. Does anyone know if HDMI 1.3 allows it?

re: SACD

http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/faq.aspx#hdmi_specification
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI

1.2 does it already

re: DVD-A

my HDMI 1.1 equipment does DVD-A fine.

 

[Starmax]

re: SACD

http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/faq.aspx#hdmi_specification
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI

1.2 does it already

re: DVD-A

my HDMI 1.1 equipment does DVD-A fine.

Yeah, I knew that HDMI allowed DVD-A. Thanks for the update!

 

[avaserfi]

HDMI doesn't allow the playback of SACD, while Denon Link III does (along with DVD-A, etc.) At least HDMI 1.1 doesn't. Does anyone know if HDMI 1.3 allows it?

HDMI 1.2 and above allow for SACD and DVD-A playback which is why Denon Link is now a pretty much useless feature .

edit: Mike beat me to it.

 

[mdrew]

SACD over HDMI is a bit miss-understood, and I’m not claiming to be an expert.

What I can confirm, is HMDI 1.1 will support SACD from MOST SACD players. This is because with the exception of a very few SACD players, the players convert the DSD data stream to PCM before sending it to the audio processor. HMDI 1.1 supports 24 bit / 96 Hz X 8 channels.

HDMI 1.2 is required to carry multi channel DSD. To my knowledge there are currently only two SACD players that send SACD multi channel as DSD. The Oppo 980 and a Pioneer player not available in the US.

Correct me if I am mistaken, but I think I’m pretty close with my assessment….. this stuff starts to blur after a while.

 

[Starmax]

SACD over HDMI is a bit miss-understood, and I’m not claiming to be an expert.

What I can confirm, is HMDI 1.1 will support SACD from MOST SACD players. This is because with the exception of a very few SACD players, the players convert the DSD data stream to PCM before sending it to the audio processor. HMDI 1.1 supports 24 bit / 96 Hz X 8 channels.

HDMI 1.2 is required to carry multi channel DSD. To my knowledge there are currently only two SACD players that send SACD multi channel as DSD. The Oppo 980 and a Pioneer player not available in the US.

Correct me if I am mistaken, but I think I’m pretty close with my assessment….. this stuff starts to blur after a while.

My Denon AVR & Universal player aren't able to communicate either stereo or multi-channel SACD signals via their HDMI 1.1 input/outputs. That's why I still use the D-LINK III, which does. I would think that would be a universal situation for all HDMI 1.1 compatible devices, right? Also, my 3910 universal player sends SACD multi-channel as DSD. I didn't even know there were any strictly SACD players...is there such an animal?

 

[jcPanny]

Oppo DVD players

FYI,
All of the Oppo DVD players including my DV970HD and the new DV981 can output SACD over HDMI 1.2. The now obsolete DV971 could not. I think Denon wants you to buy their matching receiver so they haven't been as fast to implement this feature.

 

[Starmax]

FYI,
All of the Oppo DVD players including my DV970HD and the new DV981 can output SACD over HDMI 1.2. The now obsolete DV971 could not. I think Denon wants you to buy their matching receiver so they haven't been as fast to implement this feature.

Denon outputs SACD using HDMI 1.2 and above, but not with HDMI 1.1. Isn't that a limitation with all HDMI 1.1 connections, regardless of the component's brand?

 

[mdrew]

I participated in this thread at AVS a while back discussing SACD over HMDI. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=805580

It would be worth a read. As with most threads, you have to sort through the BS, but there are some very sharp fellas who added comments.

In summery, not all AVR’s accept SACD over HMDI, regardless of the HMDI spec level. This may be the case with the Denon mentioned. For those that do, and have a 1.1 spec, it is restricted to source converted DSD > PCM only. 1.1 will not support DSD. 1.2 will support DSD, but again, not all audio processors recognize the data stream.

For instance, I had an HK 745 for a while. It would accept HDMI off my Oppo 970 and it has a 1.1 spec.

My Marantz accepts SACD in both formats, PCM or DSD. The Marantz is a 1.2a unit.

One other quandary to consider with the new AVR’s advertised to accept SACD and sources outputting DSD, is the assumption that base management can be applied to the DSD stream. This is not a certainty. From what I understand, base management can only be applied to a PCM data stream.

……all this stuff makes my head ache… good thing I don’t listen to SACD very much.

 

[Starmax]

Simply put, this is one flat-out bewildering hobby!

 

[mustafiz]

Thanks very much, Mice c.
So far I have used Cheap AV Staff. I want to start a powerfull and good quality HT. I have budget constrin. So I cant try different brand easily. I have to hit the bull at first time.
Afer so much study I have selected speaker from Paradigm family. New Monitor-7 v-5 as front, cc-290 as ceter, adp-390 as surround & PDR-12 sub.What do u think about that? Got good deal with paradigm.(Though i like Klipsch but not available here.)
I want full satisfaction keeping enough power reserve. I m confused with the AV Receiver. Denon 3805 or Yamaha 1500. I can secrifice with feature, Easy setup, Remote, even HDMI but not with power. Dont want power drop while playing 5 or 7 ch at a time.
Music and movie are in my blood. I need some advice or sharing your experience. Regards.

 

[pmac]

I was lead to this thread based on a google search. Glad to have found it.
I have been looking at 4 different receivers
Yamaha 3800
Onkyo 875
Pioneer Elite 94ts-x
Denon 3808
One of the features I was concerned about was video processing.
DCDi seems to be the most common, however the Yamaha and Onkyo do not have them.
For the most part I am leaning towards the Onkyo based on THX Ultra2 cert. whereas nothing else (other than Onkyo 805) has that.
Metworking
8 channel
Discreet channels
lots of power
4 HDMI 1.3a inputs
video upscaling
Video switching
Remotes that will make my wife not want to play with anything

Can someone inject opinion/facts as to which has superior sound/sound processing? If I am correct they all support all the currenly unusable future features so they are good to go for the near future. Building from the ground up here. Need to start with the proper head unit.

Thank you all in acvance for any support/replies. A site where i have seen little to no useless bickering make me pleased to join.

 

[cbraver]

Those two receivers should be comparable.
Denon has Faroudja DCDi scalling and the Yamaha has an anchor bay chip.
Denon has Audyssey MultEQ XT and Yamaha has Yapo
. . . but you only get the Denon Link on the Denon. However, this digital input is pretty much obsolete with HDMI audio processing.

Would you (or anyone) mind explaining what this means? I'm trying to learn about video processing.

What's DCDi scalling? Anchor bay chips? And what's Audyssey MultEQ and Yapo? Is that just what these brands call their eq? I have a 3805.

Is Faroudja DCDi scalling like having a stand alone Faroudja DVP-1080?

 

[GlocksRock]

Well, I had the V1600. Terrible receiver. It sounded good, but I couldn't get anything to work with it. HDMI handshakes and then drops it, on cable boxes, my PS3, my DVD player. A 2807 I borrowed for a day, which sold for the same price as the V1600 had none of these issues.

I recently upgraded from the RX-V1600 to the RX-V1800 and I can't say I had the same issues as you, but I did ocasionally have an HDMI handshake issue, but nothing major, and not very often, but everything else seemed to work great on it, I loved that receiver, but I like my 1800 even better.

 

[Seth=L]

I was lead to this thread based on a google search. Glad to have found it.
I have been looking at 4 different receivers
Yamaha 3800
Onkyo 875
Pioneer Elite 94ts-x
Denon 3808
One of the features I was concerned about was video processing.
DCDi seems to be the most common, however the Yamaha and Onkyo do not have them.
For the most part I am leaning towards the Onkyo based on THX Ultra2 cert. whereas nothing else (other than Onkyo 805) has that.
Metworking
8 channel
Discreet channels
lots of power
4 HDMI 1.3a inputs
video upscaling
Video switching
Remotes that will make my wife not want to play with anything

Can someone inject opinion/facts as to which has superior sound/sound processing? If I am correct they all support all the currenly unusable future features so they are good to go for the near future. Building from the ground up here. Need to start with the proper head unit.

Thank you all in acvance for any support/replies. A site where i have seen little to no useless bickering make me pleased to join.

The Onkyo TX-SR875 has Reon HQV scalers, which are far superior to Faroudja's DCDi scalers. The Yamaha use Anchor Bay Tech scalers, which are closer to DCDi, but probably below par.

 

[wire]

I want full satisfaction keeping enough power reserve. I m confused with the AV Receiver. Denon 3805 or Yamaha 1500. I can secrifice with feature, Easy setup, Remote, even HDMI but not with power. Dont want power drop while playing 5 or 7 ch at a time.
Music and movie are in my blood. I need some advice or sharing your experience. Regards.

Your best bet for power in the Amp section would to look at a 5 channel Amp ( most come in a 5 mono block config , so running out of juice is less likely) . The best place to start to look is Audiogone for a used unit . If music is in your blood .

 

[Marantz]

Hi, I am considering upgrading to one of the newer receivers such as the Denon 3808 or Yammie 3800. I currently have a Denon A1SRA (5803a) which I love to bits. Would it be an upgrade or downgrade in terms of sound quality by going with one of these amps?
Or do you think it best to use the analog ins to take advantage of the new surround formats?

 

[Johnd]

new surround formats?

TrueDolby?

The 5803 won't process that format. You need a newer receiver if that's what you're after.

 

[Sparky21]

Yamaha 3800 vs. Denon 3808

Thank god I found this forum. I'd be absolutely lost without it. I've been reading the thread and seems I'm wading into the same debate.

I've ruled out the Onkyo 875 (due to heat) and really haven't heard that much about the Pioneer 94ts-x so its down to the 3800 or the 3808. I can get the 3800 for about $100 less so they're about even on price.

Contemplated system...
Sub - Velodyne DLS-5000R (got a great deal)
Speakers - Paradigm (L/R Monitor 7, Centre CC-290, ADP-190) OR
Definitive Technologies (L/R BP7006, Centre CLR2300, BP1.2x)
TV - Sony 52" XBR4
Sources - Playstation 3, Rogers HD PVR

Any suggestions on which amp is better for this config? I'm leaning a bit towards the Yamaha.

Oh, and if you see something silly with my thoughts above, please let me know.

Many thanks

 

[brulaha]

The reason I chose the Denon 3808 over the Yamaha 3800 is:

Audyssey XT is a dedicated EQ company. This is their specialty. I thought that they would be able to implement this much better than Yamaha with a proprietary EQ. Further, the 3808 allows you to run Audyssey pro if you have an installer come and program it for you, which I might look into down the road. I can't comment on YPAO from Yamaha, but the Audyssey really works wonders in correcting bass problems I was having in my room. The overall result is that bass is smooth and even in all areas of the room, with no peaks and valleys. I was getting some huge peaks prior to implementing it.

Denon impliements 2 DSP chips from Analog Devices. I have always been impressed with prior Denon DSP processing, and the 3808 is no slouch either. I do not know what chip set Yamaha uses. It's not a knock against the Yahama, I just like the what I've seen in the past from Analog Devices.

While both boast network connectivity, Denon is the only receiver I know of that lets you use the Ethernet connection to update firmware. They have already released several firmware updates. In my opinion, this is a huge bonus.

Just my two cents.

 

[Jacksmyname]

I have the RX-V2700 which has worked perfectly (no HDMI issues).
I recently bought the RX-V3800 so as to be able to pass 24fps video via HDMI from my Toshiba XA2 HD DVD player.
I'm VERY pleased here with sound quality from the 3800 and Energy RC-70 mains, Energy RC-LCR center, Mirage Omnican 6 in-ceilings for side and rear surrounds, and a Mirage S12 sub. So far it's performed perfectly with no hiccups at all.
Video upscaling isn't important to me as the Tosh XA2 and the Denon 2930CI I have both do an outstanding job upscaling (tv is a Sony 46XBR4).