Denon 3312 vs Denon 3313

[LeoB89]

amazon dropped the price to 799 new today. Im waiting on the open box prices to adjust. I guess the x4000 is the new one for this model.

 

[dobyblue]

I heard Amazon had the 4311 at close out for around $800-900 at one time? I missed that one.

Damn! Yeah I missed that one too. Gorgeous AVR, would really like to own this one and $800~$900 new I would have pulled the trigger and suffered the wrath of the spouse. Love the dedicated PRE mode too for some time down the road when I add a PRO.

amazon dropped the price to 799 new today. Im waiting on the open box prices to adjust. I guess the x4000 is the new one for this model.

Nice price, and the dealer is authorized by Denon too (World Wide Stereo). Hmm, fingers twitching!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

fingers twitching!

LOL. That made me laugh.

 

[dobyblue]

Darn, I might be out of the hunt for a 3313CI.

When playing back Super Audio CD, DSD signals are converted into PCM signals which are then converted into analog signals.

That's a shame. You'd think with this being one of the higher end models they'd include direct to analogue conversion like the 4311CI.

From the 4311CI manual:

When playing back Super Audio CD, DSD signals are converted into PCM signals which are then converted into analog signals.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Darn, I might be out of the hunt for a 3313CI.

When playing back Super Audio CD, DSD signals are converted into PCM signals which are then converted into analog signals.

That's a shame. You'd think with this being one of the higher end models they'd include direct to analogue conversion like the 4311CI.

From the 4311CI manual:

When playing back Super Audio CD, DSD signals are converted into PCM signals which are then converted into analog signals.

So the Denon 4311 doesn't take the DSD-Direct signal directly to the Burr-Brown DAC to convert directly to Analog?

It has to convert to PCM first?

 

[ousooner2]

Ugh...I kinda want to pick up the 3312 now. I got the 1712 from A4L b/c it was super cheap, had plenty of power (basically the same as all the others audibly) and had MultEQ XT. I know I'd like to add speaker on our back patio sometime though & I don't believe I'd be able to do that with the 1712...wait....would I? I guess I wouldn't have Airplay is all. Airplay works with non-apple devices right (Samsung Galaxy s3/s4)?

You might have just talked me into it Acu lol

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Ugh...I kinda want to pick up the 3312 now. I got the 1712 from A4L b/c it was super cheap, had plenty of power (basically the same as all the others audibly) and had MultEQ XT. I know I'd like to add speaker on our back patio sometime though & I don't believe I'd be able to do that with the 1712...wait....would I? I guess I wouldn't have Airplay is all. Airplay works with non-apple devices right (Samsung Galaxy s3/s4)?

You might have just talked me into it Acu lol

I believe AirPlay is only for Apple iOS.

On my Android, I was using the regular home wired network to stream audio w/ Denon Remote app.

 

[dobyblue]

So the Denon 4311 doesn't take the DSD-Direct signal directly to the Burr-Brown DAC to convert directly to Analog?

It has to convert to PCM first?

The 3313 doesn't, the 4311 does. I imagine the DACs in the 3313 are capable of it, most Burr Browns are like the 1792, 1791A and 1796, but for some reason they didn't include it on the 3313. It looks like the newest AVR-X4000 will also convert directly to analogue although they're being pretty ambiguous in the manual. It says in PURE mode when DSD signals are played the receiver will say "DSD DIRECT".

EDIT - oh I see, I copied the wrong thing in my original post. Whoops! No wonder that looks confusing. The .pdf is secured so when I pressed CTRL-C it didn't do anything and still had the 3313CI on the clipboard. The 4311CI actually says:

 

[dobyblue]

The 1791A, 1792 and 1796 are Burr Brown (Texas Instruments) DACs for converting digital into analogue.

PCM1796 spec sheet - Audio Converter - Audio DAC - PCM1796 - TI.com

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The 1791A, 1792 and 1796 are Burr Brown (Texas Instruments) DACs for converting digital into analogue.

PCM1796 spec sheet - Audio Converter - Audio DAC - PCM1796 - TI.com

Ah, yes, the PCM1796 is DSD capable, so it doesn't have to convert DSD to PCM unless you are doing post bass management or other DSP. The 1796 can receive DSD and convert to analog directly in Direct & Pure Direct modes.

 

[PENG]

The 3313 doesn't, the 4311 does. I imagine the DACs in the 3313 are capable of it, most Burr Browns are like the 1792, 1791A and 1796, but for some reason they didn't include it on the 3313. It looks like the newest AVR-X4000 will also convert directly to analogue although they're being pretty ambiguous in the manual. It says in PURE mode when DSD signals are played the receiver will say "DSD DIRECT".

I don't think it has to do with whether they use the AKM or BB. Models after the 4310, Denon and Marantz switched to AKM, including the 4311 and 7005. The 4311 accepts DSD but the 7005, 3312/3 does not. Now the 4520 is back to BB, but it is the 32bit version of the 1796 (same specs otherwise). I don't know what they have in the newest 3000/4000. I would guess that if they standardize on BB again (makes sense for volume discount), they would likely go with the 1791 or equivalent, that has slightly lower specs but should still be capable of DSD, if D and M wants them to.

 

[dobyblue]

I would think so too, with maybe the 1796 or 1792 used for the high end models as they did with the 4308 (1796) and 5308 (1792) whereas most others chose 1791A. But it seems like they're all capable of DSD interface, so curious why on such a higher end model like the 3313 they chose not to implement it.

Now I'm back to considering the 4311CI refurb'd for $1,099.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Now I'm back to considering the 4311CI refurb'd for $1,099.

I wouldn't. The new X4000 retails/MSRP $1300 and has SACD/DSD and all the latest goodies. I think it has 11.2 processing , even though the marketing says 9.2 processing, but then again, you probably don't need 11.2 do you?

 

[dobyblue]

One Call said they'd sell me a new 4311CI for $1314 shipped.
The problem I have with the new models is that they're not specific on the DSD. They say it will display DSD DIRECT when playing back DSD, but isn't specific like the 4311CI. You would assume they mean there is no PCM conversion in DSD DIRECT mode, but I try to never presume anything.

I definitely don't need 11.2 or 9.2 or 7.2 haha. My room works best right now in its current size with 5.1, if anything I supposed additional dfront height channels would be next for me.

Sold my TX-SR805 for $500, have three weeks until I deliver it to the guy who bought it in which to make my decision.

I think I lean towards the 4311CI moreso than the X4000. I should probably do a more detailed comparison. I would like to order new.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

One Call said they'd sell me a new 4311CI for $1314 shipped.
The problem I have with the new models is that they're not specific on the DSD. They say it will display DSD DIRECT when playing back DSD, but isn't specific like the 4311CI. You would assume they mean there is no PCM conversion in DSD DIRECT mode, but I try to never presume anything.

I definitely don't need 11.2 or 9.2 or 7.2 haha. My room works best right now in its current size with 5.1, if anything I supposed additional dfront height channels would be next for me.

Sold my TX-SR805 for $500, have three weeks until I deliver it to the guy who bought it in which to make my decision.

I think I lean towards the 4311CI moreso than the X4000. I should probably do a more detailed comparison. I would like to order new.

Electronics Expo sold the 4311 new for $1225 delivered when they had them in stock. I heard Amazon was clearing the 4311 for under $900 new. So see if Onecall will go down to $1,000 delivered.

 

[PENG]

One Call said they'd sell me a new 4311CI for $1314 shipped.
The problem I have with the new models is that they're not specific on the DSD. They say it will display DSD DIRECT when playing back DSD, but isn't specific like the 4311CI. You would assume they mean there is no PCM conversion in DSD DIRECT mode, but I try to never presume anything.

I definitely don't need 11.2 or 9.2 or 7.2 haha. My room works best right now in its current size with 5.1, if anything I supposed additional dfront height channels would be next for me.

Sold my TX-SR805 for $500, have three weeks until I deliver it to the guy who bought it in which to make my decision.

I think I lean towards the 4311CI moreso than the X4000. I should probably do a more detailed comparison. I would like to order new.

I think if you can get a new 4311 for the same price as the X4000, then it is a better deal. The 4311's DAC is AKM not BB. Marantz AV7005 has the same DAC and it sounds just as good as my 4308's 1791A and my 3910's 1796. We don't know what the X4000 has but my guess is that they are back to BB, and it will likely be the 1791A, just guessing. DACs are getting so good such that they really shouldn't be the bottle neck any more. With the 4311 you know it has 11.1 discrete processing and DSD direct capability for sure. Should you change your mind, I am quite sure the X4000 can do DSD direct too but you can always email Denon for an official response. If you are used to the 50 lbs 805 you may feel better about the 37.5 lbs 4311 than the 27 lbs X4000, but that would be kind of silly.

 

[LeoB89]

on the 3313 can does spotify have an airplay button? Because the Denon UI is all lists.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

on the 3313 can does spotify have an airplay button? Because the Denon UI is all lists.

It has AirPlay, but not an "AirPlay button". I think the source name is "Network" for AirPlay.

 

[shokhead]

Did I read that the 12 won't do DSD through HDMI and the 13 will?

 

[Theosam3]

So is the refurbished AVR-3313ci for $599 on AFL a good deal and worth the risks some users have had with refurbs or does a better deal exist somewhere else?

Thanks