Denon 3312 vs Cheap AV w/ pre-outs and an Emotiva XPA-3

[crypto]

I'm trying to decide on whether to purchase a Denon 3312 to drive my system or a cheap AV w/ pre-outs and an Emotiva XPA-3. I figure the price will end up being about the same. However, I'll have substantially more power with external amp.

What are the pros and cons of doing either? If you were looking into a new AV, which way would you go?


Speakers:
Fronts: B&W DM 603 S2 - 150W continuous into 8Ω
Center: B&W LCR6 S2 - 150W continuous into 8Ω
Rear: Paradigm ADP-170

 

[crypto]

Nevermind. I have decided to go with a Denon 4311 instead.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Nevermind. I have decided to go with a Denon 4311 instead.

Awesome piece for sure.

You have chosen.........wisely.

 

[Ziontrain]

After the fact but an odd thing I noticed when comparing Denon 4311 and 3312 is that in tests/reviews the 3312 showed better signal-to-noise ratio and crosstalk/separation numbers.

The 4311 has more watts, 2 more channels, Multi EQ XT 32. But if one assumes that 125 WPC vs 145 WPC is really no practicall difference, then actually the amplification in the 3312 is cleaner, which is odd considering the 4311 is the flagship.

 

[PENG]

After the fact but an odd thing I noticed when comparing Denon 4311 and 3312 is that in tests/reviews the 3312 showed better signal-to-noise ratio and crosstalk/separation numbers.

The 4311 has more watts, 2 more channels, Multi EQ XT 32. But if one assumes that 125 WPC vs 145 WPC is really no practicall difference, then actually the amplification in the 3312 is cleaner, which is odd considering the 4311 is the flagship.

I am not aware of any lab measurements for th 3312 but even if it has better SN and CT numbers it does not mean it's "amplication is cleaner" and any such minor difference will not be discernible by normal people. For the OP's speakers I agree the 4311 is a better choice than a 3312+XPA-3.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The 3312 has a XTalk of -77.4db, SNR -108.68, THD 0.005%.

Denin 4310:

Response from the multichannel input to the speaker output measures –0.51 decibels at 10 hertz, –0.14 dB at 20 Hz, –0.04 dB at 20 kilohertz, and –2.72 dB at 50 kHz. THD+N from the CD input to the speaker output was less than 0.005% at 1 kHz when driving 2.83 volts into an 8-ohm load. Crosstalk at 1 kHz driving 2.83 volts into an 8-ohm load was –89.37 dB left to right and –87.47 dB right to left. The signal-to-noise ratio with 2.83 volts driving an 8-ohm load from 10 Hz to 24 kHz with “A” weighting was –112.28 dBrA.

Denon AVR-4310CI A/V Receiver HT Labs Measures | Home Theater

So I don't see how the 4311 would have worse measurements than 3312.

 

[PENG]

The 3312 has a XTalk of -77.4db, SNR -108.68, THD 0.005%.

Denin 4310:

Response from the multichannel input to the speaker output measures –0.51 decibels at 10 hertz, –0.14 dB at 20 Hz, –0.04 dB at 20 kilohertz, and –2.72 dB at 50 kHz. THD+N from the CD input to the speaker output was less than 0.005% at 1 kHz when driving 2.83 volts into an 8-ohm load. Crosstalk at 1 kHz driving 2.83 volts into an 8-ohm load was –89.37 dB left to right and –87.47 dB right to left. The signal-to-noise ratio with 2.83 volts driving an 8-ohm load from 10 Hz to 24 kHz with “A” weighting was –112.28 dBrA.

Denon AVR-4310CI A/V Receiver HT Labs Measures | Home Theater

So I don't see how the 4311 would have worse measurements than 3312.

That was sort of my point, but I wasn't sure if there were other reviews he knew of that we might have missed. For example, he might have read something from HCC (British) or some German ones (Remember DPS used to quote some of those).

To Ziontrain, if you referred to lab measurements by HCC, be careful not to compare the data directly with those done by HTM, SV or others, as the standards and methodoligies used by each could be quite different, enough that you should compare data published by the same reviewer as that would be a much safer bet.

 

[crypto]

I just got the Denon AVR-4311CI from Electronics Expo for $1299 shipped!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I just got the Denon AVR-4311CI from Electronics Expo for $1299 shipped!

Oh, wow, you set the new standard.

Many will be jealous, especially those you paid $1800 and thought they had a great deal.

 

[crypto]

Yes... I am very happy! I'm hopping to have it by the weekend.

 

[Ziontrain]

The 3312 has a XTalk of -77.4db, SNR -108.68, THD 0.005%.

Denin 4310:

Response from the multichannel input to the speaker output measures –0.51 decibels at 10 hertz, –0.14 dB at 20 Hz, –0.04 dB at 20 kilohertz, and –2.72 dB at 50 kHz. THD+N from the CD input to the speaker output was less than 0.005% at 1 kHz when driving 2.83 volts into an 8-ohm load. Crosstalk at 1 kHz driving 2.83 volts into an 8-ohm load was –89.37 dB left to right and –87.47 dB right to left. The signal-to-noise ratio with 2.83 volts driving an 8-ohm load from 10 Hz to 24 kHz with “A” weighting was –112.28 dBrA.

Denon AVR-4310CI A/V Receiver HT Labs Measures | Home Theater

So I don't see how the 4311 would have worse measurements than 3312.

We're talking about Denon 3312 and Denon 4311. You've posted numbers from....Denon 4310.

The two publications that I can remember have tested both 3312 and 4311 in the same process were StereoPlay.de and Home Chinema Choice in the UK.

http://www.hifiklubben.com/files/Test/Denon/AVR3312_HCC_Nov_2011.pdf
http://www.hifiklubben.com/files/Test/Denon/DENAVR4311_hcc_201105.pdf

http://www.stereoplay.de/testbericht/denon-avr-3312-av-receiver-im-test-1258546.html
http://www.stereoplay.de/testbericht/av-receiver-denon-avr-4311-1100786.html

Personally I'd think the real reason to get the 4311 is features (XT32 room correction, better remote control, etc) rather than the amplification. Truth is you'll be lucky to use 10 watts per channel in most real life living room situations. The 3312 has much higher signal-noise ratio. So lower noise flow is probably more useful than 135WPC.

Also interesting is than in 5-channel mode they deliver almost exactly the same wattage. Even in 4ohm surround setup you'd get little or nothing more from the "higher product" (see the stereoplay reviews)

 

[PENG]

Thanks for the linke. As I thought/guessed, you were in fact referring to HCC and some German reviews.

Overall I would still go with the 4311 for their other superior features. Also, the power difference in 2 channel should be significant, though not huge, given that the larger power supply would only have to feed two channels. The SN of the 4311 is still very good relative to other units (such as the Marantz SR7005) reviews HCC. The lower figures obtained by HCC vs those by HTM is most likely due to different methodologies used by the two review labs.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

My only complaint:

Denon changed the looks/aesthetics of the 3312.

I hate it. That is why it is sitting in my living room, instead of my main HT room. They should have kept that drop-down door like the 3310 & 3311.

 

[crypto]

I'm bummed... Electronics Expo still hasn't shipped my order. My account still says "Processing".

I was really hoping to have it this weekend.

 

[PENG]

Does it come with a factory warranty?

 

[crypto]

Yes. 3-year parts and labor.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm bummed... Electronics Expo still hasn't shipped my order. My account still says "Processing".

I was really hoping to have it this weekend.

They are slightly slower than some other stores. But well worth the price!

It's the price you pay for such a great deal.

For example, Amazon will charge you $2,100, and they can ship them the same day.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Does it come with a factory warranty?

100% Denon authorized. They are 100% legit.