Denon 2805 sufficient for B&W 804S speakers?

S

SPACEMANRICK

Audiophyte
I am thinking of buying the 100 watt Denon 2805 AV receiver and two B&W 804S speakers. I am primarily going to be listening to 2 channel music for now but like that the Denon 2805 can be used in the future if required for home theater. Is the 100 watt 2805 Denon 2805 powerful enough for these speakers in a 20' x 15' listening room or should I upgrade to the 120 watt Denon 3805 receiver? Will the 20 watts difference make much difference to the speakers?
I also know the 3805 has a few more features but I am not sure if I would use any of these additional features.
 
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eddiem67

eddiem67

Audioholic
you should buy a dedicated amp for those 804's, they love power, my suggestion is a Bryston 4B-SST or if you want to go cheaper a cinenova 3, shoot me an email.
 
S

SPACEMANRICK

Audiophyte
Thanks Eddiem67, but unfortunately my budget for a receiver or amplifier is about $1000 to $1500 US. I looked up those "cheaper" cinenova 3's and they appear to be out of my budget.

I started looking at the 6 series B&W speakers and liked them a lot but then I heard the 805 speakers and fell in love with them. It turns out that I have not heard the 804S yet but the difference in price after taking into account the stands for the 805 made it worthwhile for me to go in later this week to give them a serious listen (from what I have heard from others I think I will like the upgrade from the 805 especially in the bass). So my budget is now stretched too thin to spend more than $1000 to $1500 US on the receiver.
 
corysmith01

corysmith01

Senior Audioholic
Spacemanrick...just an alternative suggestion. I too have heard that the 800 series is very power hungry, especially when you get to the floorstanders. I run the 600 series myself. I don't know if you prowl the forums often, but there was a period about a month ago where tons of people were scoring Marantz SR8400's for like $500. I was one of those people. I think it had something to do with the SR8500's coming out...lots of people picked these up at ubid. That's where I got mine. Anyway, it's a $1300 receiver that can still be had for pretty cheap...a lot of those purchased are now showing up on eBay (for slightly more of course), but you can still pick one up, in an unopened box, with warranty for $550-$600:

http://search.ebay.com/marantz-sr8400_W0QQfromZR40QQsojsZ1

Here's the specs:
http://us.marantz.com/shop/_templates/Proddetail.asp?model=79&cat=15

I suggest this b/c what it does is offer 110w by itself, and also has preouts, like the Denon. So, by having a budget of $1500, if you spend $600 on the Marantz, you've left yourself with $900 for a nice 2 channel amp that could feed those hungry beasts. For instance, I know the Rotel RB1080 sells for $1000 brand new and that shells out 200w per channel. With $900, I'm sure you could find a solid, powerful 2 channel amp on audiogon or something. Just a suggestion. Were I in your shoes, with those speakers and that budget, that's exactly what I'd be doing.
 
eddiem67

eddiem67

Audioholic
How about a brand new Parasound Classic 2250 (2x250)with warranty, I can do it for $1050.00 or Adcom GFA5500 (2x200) for 1100.00.
 
Takeereasy

Takeereasy

Audioholic General
Spaceman those are some beautiful speakers, but they dip down to 3ohms. That will fry a cheaper receiver in no time. My suggestion would be to get a Yamaha 1500 and use it as a preamp. Gene, one of the founders and reviewers of this site, has stated that the pre out section of the Yamaha 1500 and 2500 are the best in their price range, and the 1500 would be the better choice given your needs. You should be able to pick up a 1500 from an authorized retailer for around $550 US. You will need to get a two channel (or two monoblock amps) that can dip down to at least 4 ohms and preferably 2ohms while giving you at least a clean 150w. There was a really nice ATI amp at onecall I'd suggest but it is out of stock. Those outlaw monos seem nice, and they are a reputable company.

Here is a THX certified Parasound amp Parasound 2. I'd also suggest you go to a local NAD dealer, the c272 is in your range and would do a good job. Also look in ARCOM.

Good luck.
 
S

SPACEMANRICK

Audiophyte
Thanks for all of the information so far everyone and sorry for appearing ignorant on some of these issues but I am pretty new to the finer technical details of speakers and amplifiers.

Some of the responses seem to indicate that even the 120 watt Denon 3805 would not be able to safely handle the 804S speakers. I am only running them for now in 2 channels in a 20'x15' room, will I really need that much more power (I know more power is better but I always thought from my laymans knowledge that 120 watts was a lot of power and keeping in mind I am on a tight budget after buying these speakers)? The reason I am considering buying a 7 channel receiver is because the 7 channel Denon is not much more expensive than the 2 channel receivers and I like that I have the option of using it in the future for home theater. Besides, I am sort of partial to Denon because I am getting a very good deal from the dealer and I have always heard good things about Denon.....

I was also reading that if you double the watts you only get a 3 decibal increase in volume. Does this also mean that as mentioned by shokhead the 20 watt jump from the Denon 2805 to the Denon 3805 will make no real world difference?

"I suggest this because what it does is offer 110w by itself, and also has preouts, like the Denon. So, by having a budget of $1500, if you spend $600 on the Marantz, you've left yourself with $900 for a nice 2 channel amp that could feed those hungry beasts.".......does this mean that you effectively would have 2 seperate amplifiers to run my 2 speakers? Would it not be more efficient and cheaper (nevermind being less cluttered) to just buy 1 amplifier or receiver with more power to run the 2 speakers?

"spaceman those are some beautiful speakers, but they dip down to 3ohms. That will fry a cheaper receiver in no time."....sorry again but I am ignorant on the difference between the 8ohms that the Denon 3805 is rated at for 120 watts or the 135 watts that the Denon 3805 is rated at for 6ohms or the 3ohms referred to in the post. What difference does the ohms requirement of the speakers make in the choice of the amplifier/receiver? I plan to turn it loud but not loud enough to make my ears bleed :)

I am also a little wary of buying electronics through EBAY and also want to have a full Canadian warranty in case there are problems in the future. Thanks again for all the help and insight it is greatly appreciated!
 
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corysmith01

corysmith01

Senior Audioholic
"I suggest this because what it does is offer 110w by itself, and also has preouts, like the Denon. So, by having a budget of $1500, if you spend $600 on the Marantz, you've left yourself with $900 for a nice 2 channel amp that could feed those hungry beasts.".......does this mean that you effectively would have 2 seperate amplifiers to run my 2 speakers? Would it not be more efficient and cheaper (nevermind being less cluttered) to just buy 1 amplifier or receiver with more power to run the 2 speakers?
spaceman...no apologies necessary. that's why everyone comes here..to ask questions. :D

As for this specific question concerning my suggestion. It wouldn't mean you'd have 2 seperate amplifiers. What it does is basically bypasses the amps in your receiver (pre-out) and let's the amp handle those two channels. So, your receiver would be running the other channels (center, surrounds), but the pre-outs would let you bypass the receiver and have the power provided by a dedicated amp. You could find a more powerful receiver and skip the amp, but I don't know any that are going to give as much power, and at the same time stability, as a dedicated amp. The most powerful that I know of (in my limited knowledge) is the new Denon 5805 at 175w per channal (?)...but that's gonna set you back 6 large. I recently got rid of a 2 channel amp (WAF), but that's exactly what I had set up; my receiver running all of my other channels while I went pre out to my amp to run my fronts. It just offers a cleaner, some would say better, power source for your front 2...very good for 2 channel music.
 
Takeereasy

Takeereasy

Audioholic General
Sorry if I wasn't very clear spaceman. The 3 ohms the speakers drop down to cause problems for most receivers because it is a very difficult and demanding draw on the amplifier section. Only very expensive receivers like the 5805 that Corysmith pointed to have amplifiers that can drop down to those levels without causing major strain on the whole unit. I guess the easiest way to explain it is this:

8ohms pretty easy to drive as long as the speaker is efficient
6ohms not too bad I'd suggest a mid level receiver even if the speakers are efficient
4ohms hard to drive, you are getting into speakers that need some real power here, either expensive reciever ala Denon 5805 or a seperate amp will most likely be needed no matter how efficient the speakers
3ohms murder on most receivers, either big bucks spent on a receiver or seperate amp needed for sure
2ohms the receiver police show up to arrest you if you are only using an underpowered receiver, these kind of loads require insane amounts of power, most amps capable of pushing these loads effectively have two plugs so you can plug them into two outlets

The lower the ohms generally speaking the harder the amp is working. The harder the amp is working the more heat it puts out. Heat is bad because receivers are full of delicate computer chips. There are jokes about guys frying eggs on thier amps. The 804's won't be dipping down to 3 ohms very often, but just knowing that they can would make me seriously consider getting a seperate 2 channel amp for the front pair. This may sound like I'm being snooty but B & W assumes that if you can lay down the dough for speakers as nice as the 804's then you can lay down the dough for proper amplification.

What you then need to worry about is the capability of the receiver you choose with regards to how well it can integrate a seperate amp or amps. You would be hooking up the amp to the pre outs on the receiver. Pre outs are what you hook the amp up to in order to integrate it into your setup. The Yamaha 1500 and 2500 seem to share the same high quality pre amp section, which one of the reviewers stated was the best in the mid price market. Essentially that means you won't do any better without spending some major dough.

I suggested the Yamaha 1500 because you said you'd like to keep the option of going 7.1 open, but that this is a secondary consideration so the 1500 seemed like a better fit than the 2500, and is a little cheaper. The good news is that the amp on the 1500 will have no trouble at all running all the other speakers in a 7.1 setup so you don't need any other seperate amps, unless you choose to go all 804's all the way around that is ;) .

Hope it helps and sorry if I was too vague before.
 
D

davetx

Audiophyte
I have the B&W 804's. 100 watts will do you no problem. I have had them on a Sony receiver the has 170 watts but right now the are on a Sony 120 watt receiver in a large room and have not come close to full volume even when I crank it.

Dave
 
W

WATCHIN

Audiophyte
i have the BW 684 for my fronts with the HTM61 as the centre (rears to follow when the budget allows), i have the Denon AVR-3808CI on order, hope this will be a decent match??

Want it for both good 2 ch music and home theater, room is 14 x 18

BTW any suggestions on a small decent sub, need to keep the equipment size small if i can
 

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