Denon 2803 vs. Sunfire Ultimate Reciever for Jeff

[surveyor]

HT Labs Measures: Sunfire Ultimate A/V Receiver

This graph shows that the Ultimate's left channel, from CD input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reaches 0.1% distortion at 150.9 watts and 1% distortion at 231.3 watts. Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1% distortion at 265.5 watts and 1% distortion at 398.1 watts. With five channels driving 8-ohm loads, the amplifier reaches 0.1% distortion at 132.6 watts and 1% distortion at 190.7 watts.
The analog frequency response measures +0.15 decibels at 20 hertz and –0.70 dB at 20 kilohertz. Looking at a broader bandwidth, the response measures +0.10 dB at 10 Hz and –2.76 dB at 50 kHz. In modes that involve signal processing, the response is –0.08 dB at 10 Hz, +0.10 dB at 20 Hz, –0.75 dB at 20 kHz, and –49.12 dB at 50 kHz. Response from the multichannel input to the speaker output measures +0.09 dB at 10 Hz, +0.15 dB at 20 Hz, –0.70 dB at 20 kHz, and –2.77 dB at 50 kHz. THD+N from the amplifier was less than 0.079% at 1 kHz when driving 2.83 volts into an 8-ohm load. Crosstalk at 1 kHz driving 2.83 volts into an 8-ohm load was –70.96 dB left to right and –68.97 dB right to left. The signal-to-noise ratio with 2.83 volts driving an 8-ohm load from 10 Hz to 24 kHz with "A" weighting was –83.33 dBrA.
From the Dolby Digital input to the loudspeaker output, the left channel measures +0.15 dB at 20 Hz and –0.76 dB at 20 kHz. The center channel measures +0.20 dB at 20 Hz and –0.15 dB at 20 kHz, and the left surround channel measures –0.02 dB at 20 Hz and –0.49 dB at 20 kHz. From the Dolby Digital input to the line-level output, the LFE channel is +0.53 dB at 20 Hz when referenced to the level at 40 Hz and reaches the upper 3-dB down point at 118 Hz and the upper 6-dB down point at 120 Hz.—AJ



HT Labs Measures: Denon AVR-2803 A/V Receiver

This graph shows that the AVR-2803's left channel, from CD input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reaches 0.1% distortion at 126.9 watts and 1% distortion at 137.5 watts. Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1% distortion at 83.7 watts and 1% distortion at 83.2 watts. With five channels driving 8-ohm loads, the amplifier reaches 0.1% distortion at 35.3 watts and 1% distortion at 40.6 watts.
The analog frequency response measures –0.06 decibels at 20 hertz and –0.16 dB at 20 kilohertz. Looking at a broader bandwidth, the response measures –0.18 dB at 10 Hz and –0.92 dB at 50 kHz. In modes that involve signal processing, the response is –0.77 dB at 10 Hz, –0.22 dB at 20 Hz, –0.11 dB at 20 kHz, and –27.74 dB at 50 kHz. Response from the multichannel input to the speaker output measures –0.11 dB at 10 Hz, –0.04 dB at 20 Hz, –0.16 dB at 20 kHz, and –0.92 dB at 50 kHz. THD+N from the amplifier was less than 0.006% at 1 kHz when driving 2.83 volts into an 8-ohm load. Crosstalk at 1 kHz driving 2.83 volts into an 8-ohm load was –78.04 dB left to right and –79.34 dB right to left. The signal-to-noise ratio with 2.83 volts driving an 8-ohm load from 10 Hz to 24 kHz with "A" weighting was –107.07 dBrA.
From the Dolby Digital input to the loudspeaker output, the left channel measures –0.02 dB at 20 Hz and –0.09 dB at 20 kHz. The center channel measures –0.03 dB at 20 Hz and –0.06 dB at 20 kHz, and the left surround channel measures –0.03 dB at 20 Hz and –0.08 dB at 20 kHz. From the Dolby Digital input to the line-level output, the LFE channel is +0.51 dB at 20 Hz when referenced to the level at 40 Hz and reaches the upper 3-dB down point at 67 Hz and the upper 6-dB down point at 82 Hz.—AJ


Cheers

 

[jeffsg4mac]

Hmmm, I am not sure I get your point, I paid $650.00 for my 2803, in my room with my speakers I can reach a sustained sound presure level in excess of 105,db's with no audible distortion. According to what you posted unless I have low impedence speakers I would gain nothing, my speakers are 8ohms, I would gain how many watts? for how much more money? and how much louder would it play? Remember I would need a 1000watt amp to get double the volume level I have now. My specs dont look to shabby for 650 bucks. Cheers back to you

How much is a sunfire? And what happens if I just add that big bad boy 200x5 ROTEL for another $2000, how much is that sunfire?

 

[surveyor]

I would not worry about a carver amp though, the ones I have listened to in the past have not had any balls at all.

I was just responding to the above.

I will add this. I would rather have a denon or yamaha processor for the buck than a sunfire.

But, I could probably take a flagship denon or yamaha processor and a sunfire cinema signature 7 amp combine them and beat almost anything out there!
Don't be misled by the facts!

Cheers

 

[gene]

While the Sunfire is a powerful receiver, it is sad to see a receiver almost $3000 cheaper have over 15dB SNR advantage under the exact same 1watt test conditions.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

If I find the need for more power I am getting THIS I might just get it anyway, for the hell of it it looks cool

 

[surveyor]

If you combined the cinema signature 7 amp and the RX-Z9 togeather you'd have your hands full beating the combo for under a fortune!

Cheers

 

[jeffsg4mac]

I have not heard any of the new carver stuff, the last piece I heard was over 10 years ago so I can not comment on their new amps, but how much is that amp? that rotel I think is 2000 or so, I have a hard time believing the carver would be a better deal or sound better than a rotel. The rotel stuff is superb.

 

[surveyor]

The only amps that I've heard of or listened to that sound better than the cinema 7 signature cost much more. I have not listened to the Rotel though?
By the way your system is fantastic. Your speakers are to die for and your reciever is a very good one indeed! I would not think that additional amps would surpass your systems sound given your superbly efficient speakers?
The real problem with sunfire or carver, in my opinion is their pre-amps.
Most high powered amps carry some distortion. To get one with the power of a sunfire costs probably more. I will say that a lot of very critical audiophiles can't stand the switch mode power supply in the carver stuff. But most of that stuff is fluff!
The technician in me hopes that further developement in refining amps with switch mode power supplies (less noise) will benefit audiophiles like me on a budget. I don't admire the wasted energy given off as heat in high end power supplies.
Cheers

 

[jeffsg4mac]

Thanks, I love it too I am not sure the Rotel would sound any better than my denon either, but it sure looks cool, I think If I get anything new it will be a 3805 or a 5805 if it comes out. I don't need louder at this point.

 

[surveyor]

Thank you! You have provided me with a lot of usefull information on this site in the past. That 3805 looks like mana from heaven for the price. The 5803 is unreal, but I don't think that the added power would significantly advance your system for the buck. Gene could speak to that.

Cheers

 

[gene]

The AVR-3805 is without a question an excellent bargain as far as receivers go. However, the AVR-5803 is a significant step up in terms of power and refinement. One could argue buying an AVR-3805 and putting the $3K saved into a dedicated 7CH amp and that certainly has its merits. However, for those looking for a single box solution that will drive their system with more power and finesse. However, I would wait till this fall before committing to such an investment. Lots of new and interesting toys are coming

 

[jeffsg4mac]

Gene, Do you know if denon has a 5805 in the wings? If so, any details you would like to share?

 

[gene]

Jeff;

Rest assured when I can share details with you, this will be the first place to find them Hang in there, good stuff is coming