Dedicated 2 Channel setup for vinyl . . . guidance needed

[highfigh]

Yeah but isn't that the same with everything new one dives into?

If you buy a turntable find out if the tone arm is fullyasdjustable as it gives you a broader range of cartriges to choose from. As far as the phone pre-amp goes, its not a big deal. There are lots of them around including those from ProJect. The other option is to buy a receiver with a phono stage already built in like a Yamaha RX-V1800 as an example. Most entry level turntables these days have very good tonearms which would have only been seen on much more expensive machines from the days when vinyl was still king.

As far as whether the phono preamp is a big deal, I think some companies and audiofilets would disagree. Audio Research had/has this one:
http://www.soundstage.com/vinyl/vinyl200512.htm

One thing that can matter is channel balance- the extremely low signal level makes this more difficult to maintain. Also, proper input impedance and capacitance affect the sound because of how they interact with the cartridge's characteristics. Shielding quality when so much gain is required is critical, too.

I'm not saying it needs to become a Holy Grail but I would definitely pass on the $99 USB jobs. Those are complete crap and have no chance of providing any kind of decent sound quality. In the late '70s and early '80s, it was possible to buy a decent table and cartridge for about $200 (after discount) and while the prices are higher, for not much more, what can be had now is definitely better than those models. They wouldn't be audiophile pieces but the Pro-Ject/Sumiko I set up for my customer was quieter than just about anything I remember from the Japanese electronics companies.

 

[WmAx]

As far as whether the phono preamp is a big deal, I think some companies and audiofilets would disagree. Audio Research had/has this one:
http://www.soundstage.com/vinyl/vinyl200512.htm

One thing that can matter is channel balance- the extremely low signal level makes this more difficult to maintain. Also, proper input impedance and capacitance affect the sound because of how they interact with the cartridge's characteristics. Shielding quality when so much gain is required is critical, too.

I'm not saying it needs to become a Holy Grail but I would definitely pass on the $99 USB jobs. Those are complete crap and have no chance of providing any kind of decent sound quality. In the late '70s and early '80s, it was possible to buy a decent table and cartridge for about $200 (after discount) and while the prices are higher, for not much more, what can be had now is definitely better than those models. They wouldn't be audiophile pieces but the Pro-Ject/Sumiko I set up for my customer was quieter than just about anything I remember from the Japanese electronics companies.

I paid about $100 for a Music Hall MMF Phono Pack (the older version). It has incredible measured performance. Noise levels are lower than virtually any other unit, and RIAA response is within 0.1 dB from 20Hz-20,000Hz. I verified this unit's performance. It has variable input impedance and capacitance options. I can assume zero advantage to going to a more expensive 'unit'. No magical factors are in play. Just audiophile excess and waste....

Of course, I did ensure that my turntable / arm are of very high levels of performance. My cartridge also performs superbly. One does not need to spend all that much to get a superb cartridge (one that can easily sound 'real' on the right recordings on a very high performance system).

It would appear that the only parts that need a substantial amount spent on them are the turntable and arm, being that this is a low volume sales mechanical system where performance really matters due to the physics involved with analog sound extraction from a pressed vinyl disc. But even here, audiophiles get REALLY carried away. Picking the right turntable/arm system, you can get away with a near ideal playback table/ arm for $1500-$2000; and by ideal I mean a set up that is suitable for ANY grade of sound system. There is no point in spending $50,000 on a turntable except to show off.... besides, the best actual performance table is not even sold, nor ever was sold, by an audiophile manufacturer. Denon, in fact, made the most technologically advanced table (Denon DP-100M) and arm system ever constructed (intended for professional use). The DP-100M was a digital, fully active system. The arm has multiple sensors to detect angle, vibration in multiple axises, etc.; undesired energy(resonance) and motion was neutralized with actuators connected to the arm. Needless to say, the table had extreme high isolation (very low noise) and the best possible speed stability.

-Chris

 

[3db]

As far as whether the phono preamp is a big deal, I think some companies and audiofilets would disagree. Audio Research had/has this one:


I'm not saying it needs to become a Holy Grail but I would definitely pass on the $99 USB jobs.

I would pass on the USB jobs myself too . What I attempted to say (but didn't ) is that you can get a very decent phono stage for around $100 and one doesn't need to spend huge amounts of money to get it. Even the phone stages built in to the receivers such as the Yamaha offer solid performance.

 

[3db]

But that was when all of the companies were making and selling a lot of turntables and the variety of cartridges was wider. Granted, the number of cheap, crappy cartridges was high then, but the numbers being made allowed the prices for a halfway decent one was pretty low and they were discounted heavily.

The lower priced Pro-Ject tables are very nice and I looked at several for that customer. Some had a base that was nothing more than a layer or two of MDF with some kind of paint on it. While it can be a good, stable material, I don't think it's appropriate to charge $500 for a piece of scrap wood, a motor and a tonearm.

Its the motor, bearings, tonearm, and cartridge your paying for. The scrap wood is free.

 

[highfigh]

There is no point in spending $50,000 on a turntable except to show off.... besides, the best actual performance table is not even sold, nor ever was sold, by an audiophile manufacturer. Denon, in fact, made the most technologically advanced table (Denon DP-100M) and arm system ever constructed (intended for professional use). The DP-100M was a digital, fully active system. The arm has multiple sensors to detect angle, vibration in multiple axises, etc.; undesired energy(resonance) and motion was neutralized with actuators connected to the arm. Needless to say, the table had extreme high isolation (very low noise) and the best possible speed stability.

-Chris

Considering the fact that a record wears a little every time it's played, I agree completely.

I remember that Denon and it's similar to Sony's Biotracer turntables from the same time period. I have one- the PS-X600 and it definitely has a quiet background but the isolation could have been better. Tapping on the base is audible but I don't remember ever having any problems with speaker-induced rumble and never had any feedback. The Denon photo shows the magnetic pickup (basically a tape head) for the magnetic material on the bottom of the platter. That was a very common way for them to get an accurate speed reading and being at, or close to the perimeter, it's more accurate than if it was close to the center.

 

[highfigh]

Its the motor, bearings, tonearm, and cartridge your paying for. The scrap wood is free.

I didn't mention that it's painted.