Dedicated 2 Channel setup for vinyl . . . guidance needed

[Spiffyfast]

Wow, been a long time since I've made a post but it feels good to be back . . . I've recently been introduced to vinyl and have fallen in love so my brain has started to spin it's wheels again. I'm considering building a dedicated 2 channel system in support of my new hobby so I'm looking for a bit of advice.

To start, I just upgraded my turntable yesterday to a killer find on a Pro-Ject Debut III Turntable with a Music Hall Tracker cartridge (I was previously using a 1960's KLH Model 24 record player so this is a gigantic leap forward already). I'm running my new turntable through a Bellari VP-29 Phono Preamp to my Pioneer receiver driving my Acoustech fronts. I also have the crossover set at 80hz sending the lows to my SVS sub.

My listening habits pretty much cover the span of Rock from the 60's until newly released. I find myself listening to 60's and 70's rock mainly (Doors, Kinks, Zeppelin, The Who, Grateful Dead, etc.). Though I've also really enjoyed some current releases (Green Day, Dave Matthews Band, Killers, U2, Cold Play, Pearl Jam). I had always heard die hard vinyl fans saying there is no comparison vs. CD / MP3 when it comes to the sound and didn't ever understand it until I picked up my first record player a few months ago. Now it could just be wishful thinking or just the ritual of spinning a record, but I honestly do enjoy the entire experience infinitely more.

I have absolutely no complaints about my current setup being used for tv, movies, and video gaming since I specifically purchased horn tweeter speakers for those usages. My vinyl sounds really good on this system, but I know my equipment isn't designed to get the most out of my turntable and records which is why I'm thinking of putting together the dedicated system. Add on top of that I have also been spending more and more time listening to vinyl vs. movies and gaming, just makes it the right time to do it.



This is what I've kind of been pondering a bit since I started looking for a new turntable and I got the itch for a standalone system.


Preamplifier / Amp (Budget ~$1000):
Emotiva USP-1 Stereo Preamplifier
Emotiva XPA-2 2 channel amp

Speakers (Budget ~ $2000)
used Paradigm Studio 100's

As far as the turntable is concerned, I did quite a bit of research and think I've found the right one. I may be inclined to upgrade my cartridge down the road to a higher end model as that looks like it will be the limiting factor once I've got the entire new system going.

I'm really open to any ideas or suggestions for the 2 channel setup and the budget is flexible as I'm not in a huge hurry since this is a hobby I think I'll have for many years to come. For all intensive purposes I'm a complete novice when it comes to anything analog since I grew up in the digital age and most of the music I'm really enjoying was produced decades before I was even born. Any advice or guidance fellow audioholics?

 

[highfigh]

Wow, been a long time since I've made a post but it feels good to be back . . . I've recently been introduced to vinyl and have fallen in love so my brain has started to spin it's wheels again. I'm considering building a dedicated 2 channel system in support of my new hobby so I'm looking for a bit of advice.

To start, I just upgraded my turntable yesterday to a killer find on a Pro-Ject Debut III Turntable with a Music Hall Tracker cartridge (I was previously using a 1960's KLH Model 24 record player so this is a gigantic leap forward already). I'm running my new turntable through a Bellari VP-29 Phono Preamp to my Pioneer receiver driving my Acoustech fronts. I also have the crossover set at 80hz sending the lows to my SVS sub.

My listening habits pretty much cover the span of Rock from the 60's until newly released. I find myself listening to 60's and 70's rock mainly (Doors, Kinks, Zeppelin, The Who, Grateful Dead, etc.). Though I've also really enjoyed some current releases (Green Day, Dave Matthews Band, Killers, U2, Cold Play, Pearl Jam). I had always heard die hard vinyl fans saying there is no comparison vs. CD / MP3 when it comes to the sound and didn't ever understand it until I picked up my first record player a few months ago. Now it could just be wishful thinking or just the ritual of spinning a record, but I honestly do enjoy the entire experience infinitely more.

I have absolutely no complaints about my current setup being used for tv, movies, and video gaming since I specifically purchased horn tweeter speakers for those usages. My vinyl sounds really good on this system, but I know my equipment isn't designed to get the most out of my turntable and records which is why I'm thinking of putting together the dedicated system. Add on top of that I have also been spending more and more time listening to vinyl vs. movies and gaming, just makes it the right time to do it.



This is what I've kind of been pondering a bit since I started looking for a new turntable and I got the itch for a standalone system.


Preamplifier / Amp (Budget ~$1000):
Emotiva USP-1 Stereo Preamplifier
Emotiva XPA-2 2 channel amp

Speakers (Budget ~ $2000)
used Paradigm Studio 100's

As far as the turntable is concerned, I did quite a bit of research and think I've found the right one. I may be inclined to upgrade my cartridge down the road to a higher end model as that looks like it will be the limiting factor once I've got the entire new system going.

I'm really open to any ideas or suggestions for the 2 channel setup and the budget is flexible as I'm not in a huge hurry since this is a hobby I think I'll have for many years to come. For all intensive purposes I'm a complete novice when it comes to anything analog since I grew up in the digital age and most of the music I'm really enjoying was produced decades before I was even born. Any advice or guidance fellow audioholics?

If you can, put some distance between the speakers and turntable. Extreme low frequencies can cause feedback and left unattended, that can damage the speakers. It also affects the sound, whether it feeds back, or not. Low frequencies will modulate the audio if it can and equalization won't fix this.

I got one of their turntables for a customer and it's very nice. I got it with one of the Sumiko carts and since the phono input is for MM, I got the MC phono preamp. Depending on the tonal characteristics of the cartridge, you'll pick your speakers. The amp will make less difference but you'll be able to find many good choices. A nice integrated amp could work, too, depending on how loud you want it to play.

 

[WmAx]

Wow, been a long time since I've made a post but it feels good to be back . . . I've recently been introduced to vinyl and have fallen in love so my brain has started to spin it's wheels again. I'm considering building a dedicated 2 channel system in support of my new hobby so I'm looking for a bit of advice.

To start, I just upgraded my turntable yesterday to a killer find on a Pro-Ject Debut III Turntable with a Music Hall Tracker cartridge (I was previously using a 1960's KLH Model 24 record player so this is a gigantic leap forward already). I'm running my new turntable through a Bellari VP-29 Phono Preamp to my Pioneer receiver driving my Acoustech fronts. I also have the crossover set at 80hz sending the lows to my SVS sub.

My listening habits pretty much cover the span of Rock from the 60's until newly released. I find myself listening to 60's and 70's rock mainly (Doors, Kinks, Zeppelin, The Who, Grateful Dead, etc.). Though I've also really enjoyed some current releases (Green Day, Dave Matthews Band, Killers, U2, Cold Play, Pearl Jam). I had always heard die hard vinyl fans saying there is no comparison vs. CD / MP3 when it comes to the sound and didn't ever understand it until I picked up my first record player a few months ago. Now it could just be wishful thinking or just the ritual of spinning a record, but I honestly do enjoy the entire experience infinitely more.

I have absolutely no complaints about my current setup being used for tv, movies, and video gaming since I specifically purchased horn tweeter speakers for those usages. My vinyl sounds really good on this system, but I know my equipment isn't designed to get the most out of my turntable and records which is why I'm thinking of putting together the dedicated system. Add on top of that I have also been spending more and more time listening to vinyl vs. movies and gaming, just makes it the right time to do it.



This is what I've kind of been pondering a bit since I started looking for a new turntable and I got the itch for a standalone system.


Preamplifier / Amp (Budget ~$1000):
Emotiva USP-1 Stereo Preamplifier
Emotiva XPA-2 2 channel amp

Speakers (Budget ~ $2000)
used Paradigm Studio 100's

As far as the turntable is concerned, I did quite a bit of research and think I've found the right one. I may be inclined to upgrade my cartridge down the road to a higher end model as that looks like it will be the limiting factor once I've got the entire new system going.

I'm really open to any ideas or suggestions for the 2 channel setup and the budget is flexible as I'm not in a huge hurry since this is a hobby I think I'll have for many years to come. For all intensive purposes I'm a complete novice when it comes to anything analog since I grew up in the digital age and most of the music I'm really enjoying was produced decades before I was even born. Any advice or guidance fellow audioholics?

The phono preamp does not have to be expensive. There are transparent devices in the $90-$150 range.

The cartridge, if you buy the right one, does not have to cost very much to be top notch. The Denon DL-110 is a superb cartridge with very low surface noise pickup, very flat response and extreme low distortion. It has no inner tracking distortion problems either.

The main thing determining vinyl source sound quality is the turntable and arm, if you have solid, high performing pre and cartridge already. I invested in a high quality turntable (nearly $2k), and I had a cartridge that costs almost $1k by itself; a highly regarded cartridge. I found that the Denon Dl-110 is all that was required - though this is an unusually high quality cartridge for the cost. I did full measurement/analysis of the system to make my determinations. If your arm is of moderate or higher mass, the Denon 110 will be a perfect device. If your arm is of low mass design, unfortunately, the Denon's compliance is not compatible.

Note: I am not aware of the actual performance (resonance, speed stability, etc.) of the Project Debut III. So I can not comment on this specifically. However, in my experience, one usually has to invest far more to get a turntable and arm with very low self-resonance and excellent speed stability.

My vinyl system paired with my main speaker system can easily sound like reality with the right recordings. So, I have not any reason to suspect I am on the wrong path in my hardware selection(s). Of course, only the smallest minority of speaker/room combination is conducive to real sounding playback, but I am simply reporting the results with such a system using the vinyl playback hardware suggestions I have made above.

-Chris

 

[jostenmeat]

To start, I just upgraded my turntable yesterday to a killer find on a Pro-Ject Debut III Turntable with a Music Hall Tracker cartridge (I was previously using a 1960's KLH Model 24 record player so this is a gigantic leap forward already).

Congrats. My friend bought this same turntable, albeit with a pricey cartridge upgrade, on TLS Guy's recommendation. My friend bought Ascend Sierra1s, an Outlaw integrated, and this TT, and of all these recent purchases, he is most satisfied and happiest with the TT. (He has an enormous vinyl collection, a retired gentleman who has a doctoral in conducting from Cincinnati).

My listening habits pretty much cover the span of Rock from the 60's until newly released. I find myself listening to 60's and 70's rock mainly (Doors, Kinks, Zeppelin, The Who, Grateful Dead, etc.). Though I've also really enjoyed some current releases (Green Day, Dave Matthews Band, Killers, U2, Cold Play, Pearl Jam). I had always heard die hard vinyl fans saying there is no comparison vs. CD / MP3 when it comes to the sound and didn't ever understand it until I picked up my first record player a few months ago. Now it could just be wishful thinking or just the ritual of spinning a record, but I honestly do enjoy the entire experience infinitely more.

With all due respect, could it be the genre of music, and the penchant for compression? I doubt you would be complaining about CDs if you were a classical buff like myself.

This is what I've kind of been pondering a bit since I started looking for a new turntable and I got the itch for a standalone system.

Preamplifier / Amp (Budget ~$1000):

Speakers (Budget ~ $2000)

I always say get the best speakers you can, firstly. If 3k is the total budget, then I'd personally free myself to spend up to 2.8k, because $200 can land an integrated amp. If you find 2k is plenty enough, then cool, but I'd just make sure to get the speakers I really wanted first. IMO, they make a lot more difference.

 

[jostenmeat]

Congrats. My friend bought this same turntable, albeit with a pricey cartridge upgrade, on TLS Guy's recommendation.

That's incorrect, sorry about that. He was recommended, and bought, the Pro-Ject Xpression III Turntable.

Anyhoo, congrats nonetheless.

 

[allEars]

I find myself exactly in the same situation. I have been going through the different sites reading about turn table, the one you mensioned is on my short list .
My speakers are fine (Paradigm Studios) and so is my amp (Anthem A2) but I am looking into getting a stereo pre-amp to go with the turn table. It has been fun reading about all these new technologies powering an old recording media.

I have noticed that some of the new music releases are also available on vinyl, maybe it's making a come back.

 

[3db]

I think your biggest bang for the buck upgrade will be your turntable. The thing that maybe limiting you with the ProJect Debut is thats its limited in the adjustments you can make to it..ie. I don't think verticle tracking angle can be adjusted on this table. Just something to consider. Thats why I chose ProJect XpressionII over the Debut becuase the tonearm was fully adjustable. Before that I used play my albums on crappy Radio Shack LAB ..(can't remember the model number) and I stopped playing vinyl on it because I thought I was ruining the vinyl with it. Great choice of speakers and amp.

 

[highfigh]

I think your biggest bang for the buck upgrade will be your turntable. The thing that maybe limiting you with the ProJect Debut is thats its limited in the adjustments you can make to it..ie. I don't think verticle tracking angle can be adjusted on this table. Just something to consider. Thats why I chose ProJect XpressionII over the Debut becuase the tonearm was fully adjustable. Before that I used play my albums on crappy Radio Shack LAB ..(can't remember the model number) and I stopped playing vinyl on it because I thought I was ruining the vinyl with it. Great choice of speakers and amp.

How did you adjust the tracking force, overhang and VTA?

 

[3db]

How did you adjust the tracking force, overhang and VTA?

Overhang and VTA were adjusted by the factory for the supplied cartridge. If I change cartridges, I would end up bringing it to the dealer for those adjustments as I do not have the tools or the patience to do the job right. The tracking force I dialed in using the recommendations from the manual. I know its not as accurate as stylus pressure gauge but I haven't noticed any record wear.

 

[djreef]

Good Gawd, I remember when listening to records used to be easy. No wonder so few people mess with vinyl anymore. It has gotten to be like tubes. TMI.

DJ

 

[3db]

Good Gawd, I remember when listening to records used to be easy. No wonder so few people mess with vinyl anymore. It has gotten to be like tubes. TMI.

DJ

Not really. The only time you need to align your tonearm/cartridge is when changing cartridges. Once the cartridge/tone arm has been adjusted correctly, its place vinyl on platter, clean the record and lower the tone arm and enjoy the toonage!!

 

[djreef]

Not really. The only time you need to align your tonearm/cartridge is when changing cartridges. Once the cartridge/tone arm has been adjusted correctly, its place vinyl on platter, clean the record and lower the tone arm and enjoy the toonage!!

I dunno, Chris makes it sound like you need a pHD in structural engineering just to choose the proper tonearm. That's kind of intimidating for those of us with a "Close and Play" history where vinyl is concerned. It almost feels like it's entered that 'realm of exclusivity', that so many other facets of this hobby have evolved into.

DJ

 

[highfigh]

I dunno, Chris makes it sound like you need a pHD in structural engineering just to choose the proper tonearm. That's kind of intimidating for those of us with a "Close and Play" history where vinyl is concerned. It almost feels like it's entered that 'realm of exclusivity', that so many other facets of this hobby have evolved into.

DJ

A PhD in mechanical engineering will do fine- it's a broader field.

Why is it in any 'realm of exclusivity'? I don't know of anyone who tells people that they shouldn't or can't get into any of this.

C'mon! It'll be fun! It'll be just like driving to Wisconsin!

 

[jostenmeat]

C'mon! It'll be fun! It'll be just like driving to Wisconsin!

Please, don't exaggerate.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

I've got nothing to add other then.....Wow, where have you been!

Hope things are well.

 

[Alex2507]

This is some good advice I have rec'd on TT's and cartridges.

I had no idea that those Studio 100's were that much. They sound good with adequate amplification as Paradigm Dawg and Warp would be more than happy to tell you.

As far as phono pre amps are concerned I would ask WmAx what he's using as he has done the homework and uses a $100 unit that measures well ... whatever that means but if it's good enough for him ...

 

[djreef]

A PhD in mechanical engineering will do fine- it's a broader field.

Why is it in any 'realm of exclusivity'? I don't know of anyone who tells people that they shouldn't or can't get into any of this.

C'mon! It'll be fun! It'll be just like driving to Wisconsin!

No that's not what I meant, but I understand what you mean. I'm just saying that the technical art of it comes off as a little intimidating for those who don't know much about the 'new analogue'. You know, kinda like tube rolling (whatever the hell that is), or wine tasting, or antique collecting. You know, the zen of it, like you'd need a guru to help out with it. Hell, when I spun LP's it was done on a rig that came out of a single box.

DJ

 

[3db]

No that's not what I meant, but I understand what you mean. I'm just saying that the technical art of it comes off as a little intimidating for those who don't know much about the 'new analogue'. You know, kinda like tube rolling (whatever the hell that is), or wine tasting, or antique collecting. You know, the zen of it, like you'd need a guru to help out with it. Hell, when I spun LP's it was done on a rig that came out of a single box.

DJ

Yeah but isn't that the same with everything new one dives into?

If you buy a turntable find out if the tone arm is fullyasdjustable as it gives you a broader range of cartriges to choose from. As far as the phone pre-amp goes, its not a big deal. There are lots of them around including those from ProJect. The other option is to buy a receiver with a phono stage alrwady built in like a Yamaha RX-V1800 as an example. Most entry level turntables these days have very good tonearms which would have only been seen on much more expensive machines from the dyas when vinyl was still king.

 

[highfigh]

Please, don't exaggerate.

Haven't you seen 'Stripes'?

 

[highfigh]

No that's not what I meant, but I understand what you mean. I'm just saying that the technical art of it comes off as a little intimidating for those who don't know much about the 'new analogue'. You know, kinda like tube rolling (whatever the hell that is), or wine tasting, or antique collecting. You know, the zen of it, like you'd need a guru to help out with it. Hell, when I spun LP's it was done on a rig that came out of a single box.

DJ

But that was when all of the companies were making and selling a lot of turntables and the variety of cartridges was wider. Granted, the number of cheap, crappy cartridges was high then, but the numbers being made allowed the prices for a halfway decent one was pretty low and they were discounted heavily.

The lower priced Pro-Ject tables are very nice and I looked at several for that customer. Some had a base that was nothing more than a layer or two of MDF with some kind of paint on it. While it can be a good, stable material, I don't think it's appropriate to charge $500 for a piece of scrap wood, a motor and a tonearm.