Decisions, Decisions, Decisions....

[arftech]

I'm in the process of redoing my system.

I've thought about going the seperates route with Outlaw and Rotel but I'm still leaving in the mix of a nice AVR.

Here's what I'm looking at:

Outlaw 990 and 1275 or
Rotel RSX-1067 AVR
Rotel RSP-1098 Pre/Pro and amp
Denon 4808 AVR

Now here's the deal...I can get the Rotel 1098 for about $1600 and the Denon 4808 for under $2000. The Denon has amplification built in as well as the Rotel RSX-1067.

Even though I view movies, 2 channel audio is important to me as well. Will the Denon 4808 measure up sonically with Outlaw and Rotel? This Denon unit is considered a musically sound AVR according to some of the reviews I''ve read but have some of the more modern switching capabilities the Outlaw and Rotel don't. In which direction should I go?

All the best,

Al

 

[enrique]

personally i would go rotel over your other choices.But thats me we all have differents tastes and likes.What speakers you will be driving may help others give you opinions as well.

 

[Davemcc]

"Decisions, decisions, decisions..." is right. There are a ton of options in this range. For receivers in the range of the Rotel, you could also look at the Onkyo TX-SR875, Denon AVR-3808Ci and Yamaha RX-V3800, maybe even the Onkyo TX-NR905.

For separates, you could look into the Emotiva Reference Theater Series on sale for $1,999.

As I contemplate my next upgrade in this area, I find myself drawn to the Onkyo/Integra line, especially for its Reon capability, and to Emotiva for affordable, quality amplification. Good luck on this very difficult decision.

 

[rnatalli]

For separates, you could look into the Emotiva Reference Theater Series on sale for $1,999.

I'll second adding Emotiva to the list. Definitely worth considering. If it were me, I'd probably go with Emotiva or Outlaw and put what I saved towards the speakers.

 

[arftech]

Wow, that was quick and I really appreciate the advice. I should add that I'm upgrading my speakers as well. Currently, I have 20 plus year old B&W DM7 MKII's.

The upgrade path will be either Aperion 633 or B&W 704's. The 704's are offered at a huge discount at my local A/V and I just love that B&W sound. I have not had the opportunity to hear the Aperion's but the reviews have been mostly positive.

The other day I audtioned the B&W's with Rotel and to be honest with you they sounded great!

Decisions, Decisions, Decisions!!!!

All the best,

Al

 

[enrique]

If they sounded great to you then your done.B&W and rotel are a great combination,used to have a set of B&W's.But they do just as well with other speakers too.Which rotel or rotels did you hear?

 

[arftech]

If they sounded great to you then your done.B&W and rotel are a great combination,used to have a set of B&W's.But they do just as well with other speakers too.Which rotel or rotels did you hear?

Enrique, I heard them through Rotel's RSX-1057. I'm intriqued about how they will sound through a 1067 AVR and 1098 Pre/Pro as these two were not in the same listening room.

Anybody here on the forum have a chance to listen to the Aperion 633? I'm curious about them as they are a little cheaper so to speak.

Thanks much,

Al

 

[mtrycrafts]

Wow, that was quick and I really appreciate the advice. I should add that I'm upgrading my speakers as well. Currently, I have 20 plus year old B&W DM7 MKII's.

The upgrade path will be either Aperion 633 or B&W 704's. The 704's are offered at a huge discount at my local A/V and I just love that B&W sound. I have not had the opportunity to hear the Aperion's but the reviews have been mostly positive.

The other day I audtioned the B&W's with Rotel and to be honest with you they sounded great!

Decisions, Decisions, Decisions!!!!

All the best,

Al

Well, your amp/receiver dilemma depends on speakers you select, not the other way around. Good amps don't have a sound of their own. If they do, they are euphonic.
After you select the speaker, you need to examine its impedance load, its sensitivity, your listening habits, low/medium/loud levels, how far you sit from the speakers as you do lose spl over distance.
A good receiver is a good receiver. That Denon you are thinking, or some others mentioned should do the trick with that B&W, most likely.

 

[jostenmeat]

Al,

How much can you get the 704s for? Im not sure which Aperions he owns, but it might be worth contacting pzaur (I think he has a lower model). He compared with 6 series BW, iirc, and he chose Aperions.

I agree about the amp. Hi-current is good. Choice will heavily depend on the size of your room and distance from speakers as well. The pre/pro choice will have a greater effect on sq, so long as the amp is simply capable. Those BWs drop to 4.1 ohms.

How about your source? ie cd player. This is the next most important choice imo after the speakers. When I upgraded mine, the immediate effect was enormous, almost comparable to swapping the speakers themselves. I know, some will perhaps shake their heads in disbelief here. As far as I am concernced, its a HUGE factor, and I was not necessarily expecting that to be the case. From first 10 secs of playback, in order of immediate observed results: much less sibilance, much superior separation particularly in the midrange, then just greater resolution overall.

So order of importance: 1) holy trinity of room, speakers, recording 2) source 3) preamp 4) amp 5) wires and all that other junk

good luck and happy hunting

 

[arftech]

Well, your amp/receiver dilemma depends on speakers you select, not the other way around. Good amps don't have a sound of their own. If they do, they are euphonic.
After you select the speaker, you need to examine its impedance load, its sensitivity, your listening habits, low/medium/loud levels, how far you sit from the speakers as you do lose spl over distance.
A good receiver is a good receiver. That Denon you are thinking, or some others mentioned should do the trick with that B&W, most likely.

mtrycrafts, you are absolutely 100 percent correct! Thanks for reminding me of that fact.

All the best,

Al

 

[arftech]

Al,

How much can you get the 704s for? Im not sure which Aperions he owns, but it might be worth contacting pzaur (I think he has a lower model). He compared with 6 series BW, iirc, and he chose Aperions.

I agree about the amp. Hi-current is good. Choice will heavily depend on the size of your room and distance from speakers as well. The pre/pro choice will have a greater effect on sq, so long as the amp is simply capable. Those BWs drop to 4.1 ohms.

How about your source? ie cd player. This is the next most important choice imo after the speakers. When I upgraded mine, the immediate effect was enormous, almost comparable to swapping the speakers themselves. I know, some will perhaps shake their heads in disbelief here. As far as I am concernced, its a HUGE factor, and I was not necessarily expecting that to be the case. From first 10 secs of playback, in order of immediate observed results: much less sibilance, much superior separation particularly in the midrange, then just greater resolution overall.

So order of importance: 1) holy trinity of room, speakers, recording 2) source 3) preamp 4) amp 5) wires and all that other junk

good luck and happy hunting

jostenmeat, I feel you on that. Last year I upgraded to a Denon 3910 without doing anything else to my system. And I want to tell you there was an immediate higher level of performance. The resolution of my CDs changed for the better and movies improved as well. By the way, I can get the 704s for $1400 which I think is a bargain considering as a pair they retail for $2200.

Peace,

Al

 

[enrique]

Al,

How much can you get the 704s for? Im not sure which Aperions he owns, but it might be worth contacting pzaur (I think he has a lower model). He compared with 6 series BW, iirc, and he chose Aperions.

I agree about the amp. Hi-current is good. Choice will heavily depend on the size of your room and distance from speakers as well. The pre/pro choice will have a greater effect on sq, so long as the amp is simply capable. Those BWs drop to 4.1 ohms.

How about your source? ie cd player. This is the next most important choice imo after the speakers. When I upgraded mine, the immediate effect was enormous, almost comparable to swapping the speakers themselves. I know, some will perhaps shake their heads in disbelief here. As far as I am concernced, its a HUGE factor, and I was not necessarily expecting that to be the case. From first 10 secs of playback, in order of immediate observed results: much less sibilance, much superior separation particularly in the midrange, then just greater resolution overall.

So order of importance: 1) holy trinity of room, speakers, recording 2) source 3) preamp 4) amp 5) wires and all that other junk

good luck and happy hunting

this is very true regarding the sources.I upgraded my cd player to an eastern electric minimax and my universal player to a lexicon rt-10.Big improvements on both accounts

 

[mike c]

since you said the 4808 is within your budget ...

let me add an option for you.

denon 3808 + 2 channel amp

the denons will trump the rotels many times over in terms of "movie" features.

soundwise, that would depend on your ears ... some people hear differences, some people don't. I just don't want you spending so much money on SQ you might not hear.

I for one have bought the Rotel RMB1077 (based on user reviews, this sounds better than the RB1080, RMB1095, RB1092) had I known I couldn't hear the difference, I would have bought the RMB1095.

 

[jostenmeat]

Outlaw 990 and 1275 or
Rotel RSX-1067 AVR
Rotel RSP-1098 Pre/Pro and amp
Denon 4808 AVR


...2 channel audio is important to me as well. Will the Denon 4808 measure up sonically with Outlaw and Rotel? .... but have some of the more modern switching capabilities the Outlaw and Rotel don't. In which direction should I go?

Hey Al,

These kinds of decisions are tough. I think once you get your new speakers, your 50/50 music/ht bias will run 75/25 for a while. Well, maybe. In that case, I say the separates route, for all of the known reasons.

*However, maybe you can have your cake and eat it too? Well, you never mentioned any serious multi-ch music (sacd/dvda), and I don't have any either... If so, you can get a nice video-first (or tech-first or convenience first) type receiver. Then also you can add an audiophile 2-ch pre-amp. Just throwing that out there; they can get pricey. But, you would get the best of both worlds. (you will have to manually switch out the connections, but some units come with "HT pass-thru"...).

*Still... I say spend first on speakers and source before this stuff, which offer incremental improvements in comparison. You are looking at spending more on pre/pro+amp than on the speakers. I am sure your Denon 3910 is a very nice piece (wish I had one!), but something like that eastern minimax will sound a ton better, if I was to forecast the results of an A/B. I know, I know, a great price you have on those speakers. Hard to turn down, perhaps.

Are you going to use the old BWs for surrounds, or are you buying a whole new setup (5.1?). If just the mains, with the total of say $3.5k or so you are going to spend, I might go get a 2-ch integrated and step-up the speakers. A "friend" that I have a lot of online correspondence with recently landed the 804s for 3k new. If you could land that too, the outlaw integrated or something, would be maybe $150 more than the intended total. (this is assuming your current electronics are adequate for HT).

Sorry, if I am succeeding here, I am probably de-railing you, if only momentarily. But thats why you post here right? To get some feedback.... and here's some of my off-the-wall offerings

 

[jostenmeat]

Sorry, about the 2-ch preamp (w/ or w/o pass-thru)... I don't *think you will enjoy the full benefits unless your pre-existing stuff was already "separates". oops. Sorry, Im a bit out of it (great time to give spendy advice!)... lol

let's make it easy then.... go separates, Rotel etc....

 

[AVRat]

As a side note, there is no Denon 4808. Maybe you meant 4806 or 4308.

 

[arftech]

As a side note, there is no Denon 4808. Maybe you meant 4806 or 4308.

Yes, I meant the Denon 4806. I'm about two weeks away and still have not really decided what to do but I do have some ideas. There are several different scenarios that I've formulated.

Rotel 1067 AVR with B&W 704s

Denon 4806 (great price for it but am I sacraficing sonics for bells and whitsles) with B&W 704s

Emotiva MMC-1 and IPS-1 but I'm leary of problems associated with some Emotiva gear that's on the A/V forums

Rotel 1098 Pre/Pro and multi/channel amp

Aperion 633 speakers but depends whether I decide to get rid of my B&W DM7MK2s and decide to go with the Rotels and amp...my budget will not allow me to buy both the Rotels and B&W 704's.

All the best,

Al

 

[rnatalli]

Emotiva MMC-1 and IPS-1 but I'm leary of problems associated with some Emotiva gear that's on the A/V forums

The only real issues I've seen surrounding Emotiva is the LMC-1 is a bit buggy, but recent updates have solved most issues. I decided to keep my LMC-1 over some other options because I liked it's simplicity and it sounded better than some alternatives IMO. Emotiva is not known for making shoddy or flimsy products, their stuff is solid. Also, their customer service is one of the best in the business.

 

[jostenmeat]

arftech, are you against buying used? If not, I would bookmark the Audiogon classifieds, and check daily. If you are lucky, you might find someone real close to you, which nullifies shipping,plus possible auditions before purchase.

 

[mahdlokg]

What to do?

Yes, I meant the Denon 4806. I'm about two weeks away and still have not really decided what to do but I do have some ideas. There are several different scenarios that I've formulated.

Rotel 1067 AVR with B&W 704s

Denon 4806 (great price for it but am I sacraficing sonics for bells and whitsles) with B&W 704s

Emotiva MMC-1 and IPS-1 but I'm leary of problems associated with some Emotiva gear that's on the A/V forums

Rotel 1098 Pre/Pro and multi/channel amp

Aperion 633 speakers but depends whether I decide to get rid of my B&W DM7MK2s and decide to go with the Rotels and amp...my budget will not allow me to buy both the Rotels and B&W 704's.

All the best,

Al

Here's another scenario for you, and one I'm seriously considering: Onkyo TX-SR805, Marantz SR7002, Pioneer Elite VSX-92TXH (or 91TXH), or the similarly priced Denon and Yamaha receivers with Rotel amps. You're getting most of the bells and whistles with some of these receivers until Rotel introduces more updated pre/pros in a year or so. I'm leaning toward the first two, the Pio Elite is a contender, and by itself much cleaner sonically than the eqivilent Denons. I demoed them (denon vs pioneer) side by side yesterday, I also demoed the Denon with the Rotel RSX-1065 several years ago. I bought the Rotel. I'm just ready to go separates, but want a few bells and whstles to go with them.