Death Penalty and Executions.

[Johnd]

Everyone's opinion should hold equal weight. I can agree with that. Your opinion on an issue shouldn't affect the course of someone else's life if that issue has absolutely no affect on you. As an example, if someone wants an abortion and you're against it, why should you're opinion outweigh theirs? Whether that person gets an abortion or not has absolutely no consequence to you (whether you say it does or not). Is your stance more important because you are you?

If you want to get into an argument that abortion degrades the moral integrity of our society, well that is a whole other issue.

Anyway, I'm just trying to look at this issue from a humble perspective. I think people should ask themselves why they think they should be able to tell others what they can and can't do.

See point #2 in my post above (#19).

 

[racquetman]

1. Abortion is "killing a life". The question is whether it is the taking of a person's life (who has rights).

2. "High and Mighty" is a notoriously ad hominem argument, which is readily discarded. We live in a society whereby the people have rights that are limited by rules that are hopefully decided by a majority through serious and thoughtful deliberation.

1. Your opinion.

2. "High and Mighty" is a figure of speech. Rules are decided by people with money. To think otherwise is ignorant. On issues that are closely debated (no clear majority), only then do politicians tread lightly.

 

[Johnd]

1. Your opinion.

2. "High and Mighty" is a figure of speech. Rules are decided by people with money. To think otherwise is ignorant. On issues that are closely debated (no clear majority), only then do politicians tread lightly.

1. Which matters.

2. "High and Mighty" is an ad hominem. The rules are decided by those that are heard. If more people spoke their mind in forums that mattered, the "people" would have a greater voice.

I believe in a Democratic Republic.

 

[Buckle-meister]

Everyone's opinion should hold equal weight. I can agree with that.

That's not what Johnd wrote Alandamp:

...everyone's opinion is important. Even when one engages in pure sophistry, or speaks from utter ignorance, their opinion still matters.

I agree, but I do think that certain opinions, typically those more informed, are more important than others. For example, I'd rather trust a structural Engineer's opinion on whether or not the foundations of a building were sound or not than that of the lay person.

 

[racquetman]

1. Which matters.

2. "High and Mighty" is an ad hominem. The rules are decided by those that are heard. If more people spoke their mind in forums that mattered, the "people" would have a greater voice.

I believe in a Democratic Republic.

Well, John, we can go around in circles all day, but I'm sure we both have better things to do. Let me just finish by saying:

1) Your opinion matters. If you don't think someone you care about should have an abortion then tell them. If some woman 2500 miles away from you wants to have an abortion, why do you care? It doesn't affect you. This shouldn't be a yes or no debate. It should be for each individual to decide.

2) Don't get me started on whether we have a voice or not.

 

[Johnd]

1) If some woman 2500 miles away from you wants to have an abortion, why do you care? It doesn't affect you.

2) Don't get me started on whether we have a voice or not.

1. Because I belong to a society that ought to care...what we do does affect others. We ought to consider these things as important, and we ought to be involved in the decision making process.

2. Then I won't.

But it's been engaging and provocative...thank you.

 

[Johnd]

I agree, but I do think that certain opinions, typically those more informed, are more important than others. For example, I'd rather trust a structural Engineer's opinion on whether or not the foundations of a building were sound or not than that of the lay person.

Without a doubt.

 

[racquetman]

That's not what Johnd wrote Alandamp:



I agree, but I do think that certain opinions, typically those more informed, are more important than others. For example, I'd rather trust a structural Engineer's opinion on whether or not the foundations of a building were sound or not than that of the lay person.

I wasn't saying that was what he wrote, Robbie. I was saying that 1 vote counts for one vote. If you believe that (which he didn't weigh in on), I would agree with that statement.

Never trust a structural engineer!! Who needs 'em. Everyone knows that the American government brought down the twin towers. It doesn't matter if you know anything about buildings or not .

 

[Buckle-meister]

I was saying that 1 vote counts for one vote. If you believe that...I would agree with that statement.

Certainly I believe that nobody is more important than another.

 

[Johnd]

I wasn't saying that was what he wrote, Robbie. I was saying that 1 vote counts for one vote. If you believe that (which he didn't weigh in on), I would agree with that statement.

Well then, Alan, I'll have to weigh in.

One person, one vote...yes. But the spoken vote (preferably loudly and as repeatedly as necessary) often counts more than the quiet vote. Vote your conscience and be unafraid of disagreeing with your congressman, senator, or even president. Just state your disagreement so that it is heard.

 

[Johnd]

Certainly I believe that nobody is more important than another.

Robbie, it is your belief that nobody is more important than another, but how would you go about offering empirical proof, or at least data to convince others of that?

And is that to say noboby is less important than another?

And finally, is that to say that we are equally important?

 

[Buckle-meister]

Robbie, it is your belief that nobody is more important than another, but how would you go about offering empirical proof, or at least data to convince others of that?

Hmm, 'never thought about how it could be proven, but how's this for starters:

Consider two babies. You know nothing of their parents or anything else that could conceivably have an influence on your answer. Looking at the babies, how could anybody possibly say that one was any more or less important than the other?

And is that to say noboby is less important than another?

Yes, but really it's just the same as nobody being more important than another. After all, if someone is less important than another, then the other person is more important than them in which case 'nobody is more important' covers both cases. Was that a trick question?

And finally, is that to say that we are [all] equally important?

Yes. That's the only possibility left.

I'm not saying that some people don't do more important things (job etc.) than others, but in terms of worth, we are all equal.

 

[Tomorrow]

Criminal penalties such as the death penalty but are generally promoted by lawmakers to dissuade the illegal behavior, and are not seen so much for punishment purposes. Whether the concept of deterrence really works, remains up for argument.

 

[tbewick]

If you've kidnapped your 8 year old neighbor and locked her in a secret room under your garage for 10 years, then yes, you're probably a few waves short of a shipwreck.

The person I was referring to, on a programme I watched on TV, had the mental age/development of a child, and shot someone. I think it was a fairly well known case, and it might have been one where the then Senator Bill Clinton could have granted a pardon, but didn't.

2. We're executing them to remove them from society. Their termination is the end result, not some macabre vendetta.

I not sure about this, because putting someone in prison has the same effect i.e. it removes them from society.

 

[rtcp]

Now let's say that your child or spouse is raped, tortured, and killed - and the killer shows no remorse - and he all but laughs at you in the court room. Do you still think you'll have the same opinion?

I most certainly wouldn't, but I would prefer to see the judicial system based on reason and fairness than a victim's hasty emotional response to a crime.

 

[racquetman]

I most certainly wouldn't, but I would prefer to see the judicial system based on reason and fairness than a victim's hasty emotional response to a crime.

I don't think that has anything to do with it.

I think what we fail to grasp is that there are some really evil people out there. You and I couldn't comprehend committing an unthinkable crime, but some people could care less. Can you imagine raping or killing someone and being able to live with yourself? I sure can't. Yet there are thousands of such people out there who have no remorse for such actions.

Some people don't belong in our society. They won't adhere to the rules set down before them. Should we have to support them with our tax dollars for dozens of years in prison when rehabilitation has no chance of succeeding? My personal opinion on that is no. Should they be executed? I don't know, but why does my paycheck have to dwindle to support these horrible people?

 

[JoeE SP9]

I agree with Rock&Roll Ninja about the application of the death penalty. Executions should be public and high school students should be required to attend.

As for the abortion issue. When I can get pregnant then I'll decide. Until then it's the womans choice. It's none of my business. We have too much of people interfering with others for their "own good".

 

[Geno]

Isn't it strange that in lethal injection executions the prisoners arm is swabbed with betadyne before the needle is inserted?

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

The person I was referring to, on a programme I watched on TV, had the mental age/development of a child, and shot someone.

Well thats "developmentally handicapped" not mentally ill.

I not sure about this, because putting someone in prison has the same effect i.e. it removes them from society.

While they are in prison they prove to be a danger to other prisoners. If you don't care about prisoners, then you could at least care about the people who work at/for the prison.

And I never said executions should be made public, just to clarify.

 

[majorloser]

And I never said executions should be made public, just to clarify.

But it's not a bad idea. Something could be said about public hangings and the gillotine as far as a crime deterrent.