Dealing with bass artifacts

[KEW]

I have a few albums where the recording engineer was obviously not using a subwoofer.
One example of this is Eric Clapton's Unplugged album, tracks 9 and 12.
I think it is Clapton tapping his foot. It sounds fine (just a gentle foot tap - on beat) on my computer system with no sub. Unfortunately, it sucks when my sub is in the mix - almost as if the mic was laying on the floor. There is a thud at very low frequency which is far too prominent on this acoustic recording.
And then, there are some albums where the bass is just recorded way too hot to sound good if you have speakers that reproduce the low notes. I want to be able to turn down the bass in these instances.

But back to my question. Is there a easy and casual way to essentially apply a high pass filter to the sub either at the receiver or are there subs with RC that would accommodate this?

I am not real conversant with my receivers. I know that I can setup a custom EQ, but how many buttons does it take to go from Audyssey to custom and back. Ideally I would want to do this quickly without an interruption in the music. I am using Denon AVR-1712, but have Denon AVR-4311CI and Marantz SR-6001 which I can swap out if they can do this better.

Obviously, I'd rather do it at the receiver, but if the receiver won't do it, any recommendations on a sub which allows RC control of the bottom end? It wouldn't need to go real low as long as it is accurate in the more traditional musical instrument frequencies.

Thanks!

 

[shadyJ]

Many receivers have a rumble filter, but it doesn't look like those models do. Besides, unless we knew what the offending frequencies were, they might not work anyway. If this filter has a bypass, it might be worth looking into for a simple solution. You could probably setup a MiniDSP with a simple high pass filter as well, I would ask about that.

 

[Sheep]

There is some pro audio/studio monitoring subwoofers that have a foot switch, but shouldn't it be easier to just use the receiver to kill the subwoofer for that track? That or run over and unplug it.

SheepStar

 

[KEW]

Thanks for the suggestions!

Maybe I'm looking at this wrong. It is not often that I find an album or song where this problem is really significant.
Is there software that will allow me to apply equalization to an elactronic file?
I could play with it, but I think with a roll-off around 35-40Hz, I would end up with a clean copy. In the case of the Clapton album, I'm not sure there is much content below that anyway.

Edit: I should clarify, I mean apply EQ when making the file from CD and/or taking an existing mp3 and modifying it accordingly.

 

[shadyJ]

Hi KEW, a simple free 256 band EQ is Nevi's EQ for winamp. Not sure if anything like this is available for other players. You can make a simple setting, a brickwall filter at 35 Hz if you wanted, very easy with that equalizer. It's what I use and works well. Otherwise you can just use the high pass filter in something like Audacity or whatever digital audio editor you like and save the audio files like that.

 

[herbu]

One example of this is Eric Clapton's Unplugged album, tracks 9 and 12.
I think it is Clapton tapping his foot. It sounds fine (just a gentle foot tap - on beat) on my computer system with no sub. Unfortunately, it sucks when my sub is in the mix - almost as if the mic was laying on the floor. There is a thud at very low frequency which is far too prominent on this acoustic recording.

I listened to this carefully. I think there are two components of that sound... the low freq thud and the higher freq tap. Listen closely to the very beginning of #9. The thud is there, but not the tap. The tap comes in after about 4 bars. I think the thud is a bass drum. Not sure what the tap is... maybe a foot.

The thud is there on other tracks too. Less prevalent, but maybe because some of the other tracks are busier. The easiest way I found to get rid of the thud, especially since it only bothers you on a couple tracks, is hit "Direct" for those tracks. Gets rid of the thud, leaves the tap. Easy to turn on, and easy to turn back off.

BTW, Layla on this album is one of my favorites of all time. The piano fill is magnificent.

 

[KEW]

I listened to this carefully. I think there are two components of that sound... the low freq thud and the higher freq tap. Listen closely to the very beginning of #9. The thud is there, but not the tap. The tap comes in after about 4 bars. I think the thud is a bass drum. Not sure what the tap is... maybe a foot.

Well, I listened again and it really doesn't sound like anything any decent musician would add to Clapton's performance. It is not too annoying with an 8" sub, but if I play it using my SVS 12-Plus, it really sounds like crap. I went into another room while track 2 was playing and noticed low frequency noise (maybe like the effect used in a movie to remind us the scene is on a spaceship). Went over to the sub and see a lot of commotion that doesn't coincide with the music. I think that best describes what is happening - it is a music album with LFE! I don't know much about recording engineering, but it seems as if there were no rumble filters applied. The only instrumentation is Clapton's guitar, voice, and foot tapping!

I can say that because I just watched the performance on Youtube:

It is Clapton's foot, but has the sound effect of the Hulk's foot.
I wonder what a 15" ported sub would do with it.

The thud is there on other tracks too. Less prevalent, but maybe because some of the other tracks are busier. The easiest way I found to get rid of the thud, especially since it only bothers you on a couple tracks, is hit "Direct" for those tracks. Gets rid of the thud, leaves the tap. Easy to turn on, and easy to turn back off.

I would consider that an excellent solution...except it makes me feel stupid that I didn't think of it before posting this!
Seriously, thanks! Simple is always welcome!

BTW, Layla on this album is one of my favorites of all time. The piano fill is magnificent.

Yeah, I really like every "unplugged" album I have ever heard (which is only Eric Clapton, Katy Perry, and Alanis Morissette and I'll add Roseanne Cash's 10 Song Demo album). But Clapton is my favorite of them.
That is why I used this album as an example - major musician and actually wonderful quality recording... except for the LFE!

 

[KEW]

Hi KEW, a simple free 256 band EQ is Nevi's EQ for winamp. Not sure if anything like this is available for other players. You can make a simple setting, a brickwall filter at 35 Hz if you wanted, very easy with that equalizer. It's what I use and works well. Otherwise you can just use the high pass filter in something like Audacity or whatever digital audio editor you like and save the audio files like that.

Thanks! Switching to "direct" is a good solution for what I asked, but I will probably end up permanently EQ'ing some of my favorite albums. Seems like I remember a similar problem with Yessongs. Can I fade in and fade out the EQ as it is being recorded? I wouldn't want to put a filter on the whole album simply for a portion of a single song.

 

[Sheep]

You should look into mixing/master software if you want to EQ the final product. Programs like cubase, Protools, Logic should all offer this feature. I live in Canada so I don't pay for software. If you're a square, you're looking at one expensive EQ job depending on the program.

SheepStar

 

[KEW]

Since it is out there, I thought I'd use this as an opportunity to gratuitously post the Layla Unplugged video.

Enjoy!

 

[shadyJ]

Thanks! Switching to "direct" is a good solution for what I asked, but I will probably end up permanently EQ'ing some of my favorite albums. Seems like I remember a similar problem with Yessongs. Can I fade in and fade out the EQ as it is being recorded? I wouldn't want to put a filter on the whole album simply for a portion of a single song.

Yes you can limit the filtration to any part of the sound that you want via fading. If you are not familiar with digital audio editors, you may have to run through some tutorials to get to that point. For the Nevi EQ you can turn it on or off or change the filters whenever you want. That would probably be easier than re-editing the sound files.

 

[herbu]

Since it is out there, I thought I'd use this as an opportunity to gratuitously post the Layla Unplugged video.

Enjoy!

Thanks, KEW! Love the album and especially that cut. Nice to see it. Kybd work is nothing short of masterful!

 

[herbu]

It is Clapton's foot, but has the sound effect of the Hulk's foot.
I wonder what a 15" ported sub would do with it.

Well, I listened to it w/ a Rythmik FV15HP plus an SVS PB-13 Ultra. You're right. It is noticeable.