DCM TFE100 vs JBL Studio 580

KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I've had a chance to listen/compare these and figure out how they compare. I also had @TheWarrior come over and listen blind to them, although time was limited so he only listened to Norah Jones on them. I say that. but he listened to several songs off of her "Come Away with Me" album and probably listened to "Don't Know Why" about 8 times as he wrestled with trying to decide which he liked better - they really are that close! He did not reach a firm conclusion!
However, they do not sound the same by any stretch!

You'll have to forgive my "stream of consciousness" organizational structure, but this covers the places where I heard distinctions between the speakers!
Here are my thoughts!

Bass - the TFE is the winner - Both of these speakers have pretty full bass and they sounded very similar except with the kick-drum I would feel the TFE "pressurize the room"(?) where both of my eardrums felt like they were bottoming out (obviously not literally) on the drum kicks. This is likely of no consequence if you will use a sub, but it gives the TFE a strong recommendation if you will not use a sub! There have been reviews talking about the TFE200 having too much bass. I can say that the TFE100 has very much the same level of bass (sound-wise) as the JBL 580 (which I do consider to provide strong bass)! The bass is very good in my book!

HT - JBL is the winner - Something there is about a horn that provides an immediacy which makes something like an action movie more exciting! There is a heightened immediacy to impacts. Things tend to pop with an engaging vividness! I am of the opinion that this is like some film that would render photographs with more dramatic colors than reality. I have mixed feelings about accurate vs "better" for music, but with HT, I'll take "better" any day of the week ... without hesitation!

Rock Music - JBL is the winner - As above, the horn effect is an enhancement that I generally like and it plays well (IMHO) on most modern music which uses electric and electronic instruments and drums. Very nice for rock!

Acoustic music - trombone - TFE is the winner - I have a lot of exposure to acoustic instruments and the trombone (especially when played aggressively) is one of my favorites for discerning audio quality! The frequency range and balance of fundamental tones with harmonics is a pretty comprehensive test! I actually like the sound of the trombone from both speakers, but realized that the depth-location of the trombone on the JBL was not as locked in as it was on the TFE. The subjective impression I was getting is that the immediacy effect of the JBL's compression horn caused the upper frequencies to arrive sooner (or stronger?) than the lower frequency which resulted in a sense of a trombone bell that is blurred over depth. Side to side imaging was fine on both speakers.

Snare drum - Tie - Again, I think it is the effect of the horn, but if I were to resolve the differences in the sound of the snare between these speakers, I would say the TFE was playing a snare with a slight tilt towards the drummer (say a 10 degree angle from level) while the JBL played a snare that was tilted more (say 40 degrees from level) so that the direct sound of the hits were more aimed at me! The horn effect is neat, but again, perhaps a bit more than reality. I can't judge which would be better for myself, much less attempt a blanket assessment for others! For that matter, I don't know how that drummer actually sets up his kit!

Both speakers manage a very good overall composure and balance of sounds. For soundstage, the same type of effect I heard with the trombone being "elongated" in the depth direction was present. This sounds like it would be a negative, but it somehow manages to to provide a little more resolution and detail by have "more room/more openness" on stage. In comparison, the TFE stage was better defined in the depth direction. I hate what I just wrote in this paragraph, because it most surely sounds like BS to me, but it is the best description I can give of my perceptions.

The real story here is that the TFE (Time Frame Evolution) towers are a super-steal at $125 each in that they are in the same league as the JBL 580 (which was a super-steal at the ~$380 each I paid for them)! Yet, my bargain 580's cost three times as much as the TFE's! That makes these clearance DCM speakers the best value I have seen over the past 10 years!

If I had a choice of either for free, I probably would lean towards the JBL's (if using a sub) because I am not a purist and I enjoy the effect of the horns, whether it is accurate or not. But hey, I also liked using Kodachrome or whatever film made the colors pop more than they did to the naked eye! The 580's are a bit more "in your face" by their very nature, so if I was looking for speakers to put in my office for use as background while I did other things, the 580's would be a poor choice.

Edit: The TFE100 mid-range is about a foot below my ear-level which puts the tweeter about 20" below ear-level. I was very concerned that this would be a problem and I would have to put these on a 20" riser. I don't know if the engineer(s) at DCM sacrificed their first-born or what! All I can say is that it works!
 
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Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Speaker shootout! *pew pew pew*

Very interesting! I've been admiring the JBL 5 series from afar for some time now but I'm finding myself warming up to the TFEs more and more. Such a good price for a speaker of that caliber. I really do wish I had an excuse to buy a pair! Even if just for bragging rights. "Oh yeah, I got in on those when they were only $250 a pair. Yup, a real ONCE IN A LIFETIME kinda deal...". :p
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
Edit: The TFE100 mid-range is about a foot below my ear-level which puts the tweeter about 20" below ear-level. I was very concerned that this would be a problem and I would have to put these on a 20" riser. I don't know if the engineer(s) at DCM sacrificed their first-born or what! All I can say is that it works!
DCM did a good job with the vertical and horizontal response -- and yes DCM TFE series has good soundstage and depth
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
Speaker shootout! *pew pew pew*

Very interesting! I've been admiring the JBL 5 series from afar for some time now but I'm finding myself warming up to the TFEs more and more. Such a good price for a speaker of that caliber. I really do wish I had an excuse to buy a pair! Even if just for bragging rights. "Oh yeah, I got in on those when they were only $250 a pair. Yup, a real ONCE IN A LIFETIME kinda deal...". :p
The TFE60 bookshelf is still in my room, and that is really saying something -- they have some good resolution for their former $500 a pair list price ... there is something about the radiation pattern of the TFE series speakers.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I've had a chance to listen/compare these and figure out how they compare. I also had @TheWarrior come over and listen blind to them, although time was limited so he only listened to Norah Jones on them. I say that. but he listened to several songs off of her "Come Away with Me" album and probably listened to "Don't Know Why" about 8 times as he wrestled with trying to decide which he liked better - they really are that close! He did not reach a firm conclusion!
However, they do not sound the same by any stretch!

You'll have to forgive my "stream of consciousness" organizational structure, but this covers the places where I heard distinctions between the speakers!
Here are my thoughts!

Bass - the TFE is the winner - Both of these speakers have pretty full bass and they sounded very similar except with the kick-drum I would feel the TFE "pressurize the room"(?) where both of my eardrums felt like they were bottoming out (obviously not literally) on the drum kicks. This is likely of no consequence if you will use a sub, but it gives the TFE a strong recommendation if you will not use a sub! There have been reviews talking about the TFE200 having too much bass. I can say that the TFE100 has very much the same level of bass (sound-wise) as the JBL 580 (which I do consider to provide strong bass)! The bass is very good in my book!

HT - JBL is the winner - Something there is about a horn that provides an immediacy which makes something like an action movie more exciting! There is a heightened immediacy to impacts. Things tend to pop with an engaging vividness! I am of the opinion that this is like some film that would render photographs with more dramatic colors than reality. I have mixed feelings about accurate vs "better" for music, but with HT, I'll take "better" any day of the week ... without hesitation!

Rock Music - JBL is the winner - As above, the horn effect is an enhancement that I generally like and it plays well (IMHO) on most modern music which uses electric and electronic instruments and drums. Very nice for rock!

Acoustic music - trombone - TFE is the winner - I have a lot of exposure to acoustic instruments and the trombone (especially when played aggressively) is one of my favorites for discerning audio quality! The frequency range and balance of fundamental tones with harmonics is a pretty comprehensive test! I actually like the sound of the trombone from both speakers, but realized that the depth-location of the trombone on the JBL was not as locked in as it was on the TFE. The subjective impression I was getting is that the immediacy effect of the JBL's compression horn caused the upper frequencies to arrive sooner (or stronger?) than the lower frequency which resulted in a sense of a trombone bell that is blurred over depth. Side to side imaging was fine on both speakers.

Snare drum - Tie - Again, I think it is the effect of the horn, but if I were to resolve the differences in the sound of the snare between these speakers, I would say the TFE was playing a snare with a slight tilt towards the drummer (say a 10 degree angle from level) while the JBL played a snare that was tilted more (say 40 degrees from level) so that the direct sound of the hits were more aimed at me! The horn effect is neat, but again, perhaps a bit more than reality. I can't judge which would be better for myself, much less attempt a blanket assessment for others! For that matter, I don't know how that drummer actually sets up his kit!

Both speakers manage a very good overall composure and balance of sounds. For soundstage, the same type of effect I heard with the trombone being "elongated" in the depth direction was present. This sounds like it would be a negative, but it somehow manages to to provide a little more resolution and detail by have "more room/more openness" on stage. In comparison, the TFE stage was better defined in the depth direction. I hate what I just wrote in this paragraph, because it most surely sounds like BS to me, but it is the best description I can give of my perceptions.

The real story here is that the TFE (Time Frame Evolution) towers are a super-steal at $125 each in that they are in the same league as the JBL 580 (which was a super-steal at the ~$380 each I paid for them)! That makes these clearance DCM speakers the best value I have seen over the past 10 years!

If I had a choice of either for free, I probably would lean towards the JBL's because I am not a purist and I enjoy the effect of the horns, whether it is accurate or not. But hey, I also liked using Kodachrome or whatever film made the colors pop more than they did to the naked eye! The 580's are a bit more "in your face" by their very nature, so if I was looking for speakers to put in my office for use as background while I did other things, the 580's would be a poor choice.

Edit: The TFE100 mid-range is about a foot below my ear-level which puts the tweeter about 20" below ear-level. I was very concerned that this would be a problem and I would have to put these on a 20" riser. I don't know if the engineer(s) at DCM sacrificed their first-born or what! All I can say is that it works!
Nice write-up, but you may be attributing characteristics to the sound that might have nothing to do with the horn. Horns don't have to color the sound unless there is a lot of diffraction in the mouth of the horn. The only difference you might hear would be coming from the greater ratio of direct over reflected sound. I think it is very common for audio hobbyists to attribute a sound that is really a spectral balance that has nothing to do with the horn itself. I see this from both proponents and critics of horns.
DCM did a good job with the vertical and horizontal response -- and yes DCM TFE series has good soundstage and depth
Are there measurements that show these responses? I would be very surprised if someone bothered to run vertical measurements on them outside of the manufacturer, and I would also be surprised if they were at all exceptional on the vertical axis.
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
Are there measurements that show these responses? I would be very surprised if someone bothered to run vertical measurements on them outside of the manufacturer, and I would also be surprised if they were at all exceptional on the vertical axis.
All that matters is I like them and I like what I hear, and the vertical and horizontal is good to me, and I do not need measurements to tell me what I hear and like ... that soundstage is good.
 
afterlife2

afterlife2

Audioholic Warlord
Man what a writeup! Those JBL 580's I've always had the itch to hear them. Man if I only had the funds that TFE would be mine. Those horns on the JBL make me miss my HSU bookshelves so much.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Nice write-up, but you may be attributing characteristics to the sound that might have nothing to do with the horn. Horns don't have to color the sound unless there is a lot of diffraction in the mouth of the horn. The only difference you might hear would be coming from the greater ratio of direct over reflected sound. I think it is very common for audio hobbyists to attribute a sound that is really a spectral balance that has nothing to do with the horn itself. I see this from both proponents and critics of horns.
You may be right, but one of the big reasons that I am inclined to attribute this phenomenon to horns is that the Klipsch I have heard shared this characteristic. It gives an immediacy to any percussive sounds. Electrostats are somewhat similar, but not quite the same. Otherwise, I have not experienced this with any other speakers.
Obviously, this is a subjective experience, but I think of the notion of the horn projecting the sound and that seems to be consistent with my perception, but I'm not about to make a case based on "what seems", I just find it is still an effective way to communicate what I heard.
I would very much like to understand it from a "physics of sound" standpoint, and welcome any thoughts!
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
Neither of these speakers gets high marks in the looks department, but I think the win has to go to the TFE (with the cheery finish).
 
T

Trout

Enthusiast
Nice review...I just purchased the TFEs last week and I am really pleased with the sound and dynamics compared to my old speakers. Hard to pass over $240 a pair speaker brand new.

Curious what you were using to drive your speakers.
 
Kvn_Walker

Kvn_Walker

Audioholic Field Marshall
Neither of these speakers gets high marks in the looks department, but I think the win has to go to the TFE (with the cheery finish).
JBL not offering the cherry finish in the US is the main reason I've been able to resist all the half price sales on the 590. Can't complain with the Klipsch RP-280F's I wound up with though.
 
M

Merkules2001

Audioholic
I concur with expediency of klipsch speakers. I have had a couple different setups with mine. Paradigm Mini Mon 4, B&W 604 s2, Bang and Olufsen S55. They do seem to get the sound there faster. Therefore making them sound better to the ear. I had that same feeling, so last night I experienced a set of r15ms with my rp160s. Same speed. They match.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I concur with expediency of klipsch speakers. I have had a couple different setups with mine. Paradigm Mini Mon 4, B&W 604 s2, Bang and Olufsen S55. They do seem to get the sound there faster. Therefore making them sound better to the ear. I had that same feeling, so last night I experienced a set of r15ms with my rp160s. Same speed. They match.
Thanks for your validation of my experience and reassurance I am not going crazy!
From a physics standpoint, the horn (nor any other aspect of a speaker) is not going to change the speed of sound, so it seems a stretch to entertain that the sound is actually arriving earlier! However there is decidedly something that gives the perception that the sound is arriving earlier!
I would love to see an explanation of what is going on from a "Physics of Sound" perspective!
 
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S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
You may be right, but one of the big reasons that I am inclined to attribute this phenomenon to horns is that the Klipsch I have heard shared this characteristic. It gives an immediacy to any percussive sounds. Electrostats are somewhat similar, but not quite the same. Otherwise, I have not experienced this with any other speakers.
Obviously, this is a subjective experience, but I think of the notion of the horn projecting the sound and that seems to be consistent with my perception, but I'm not about to make a case based on "what seems", I just find it is still an effective way to communicate what I heard.
I would very much like to understand it from a "physics of sound" standpoint, and welcome any thoughts!
Perhaps, as I said, it is due to the greater ratio of direct-to-reflected sound from a narrow dispersion speaker. Electrostats also have a narrow dispersion pattern, probably even more so than a JBL Studio series speaker. A narrow dispersion speaker will also have a greater ratio of late reflections compared to a wide dispersion speaker, so it may well be the lower amount of early reflections.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Nice review...I just purchased the TFEs last week and I am really pleased with the sound and dynamics compared to my old speakers. Hard to pass over $240 a pair speaker brand new.

Curious what you were using to drive your speakers.
The DCM TFE100's were driven by my Denon AVR-X4400H in "Pure Direct" mode.
The JBL Studio 580's were driven using a Yamaha R-S700 with "CD Direct Amp" mode engaged.
Using two separate AVR's allows convenient level-matching.
The source was Oppo BDP-103D using a stereo RCA connection to a 4 port audio switch which allowed me to select output to go to either of these receiver/speaker combinations instantly.

There was really next to no thought given to which unit I used to drive which speaker. Neither of these speakers seems a challenging load at the levels I listen (which I would call "strong", but not "blasting"). I used the 4400 because it is what I have setup in my LR and I hooked the TFE100's up to it as soon as I unboxed them.
I grabbed the R-S700 to accommodate the JBL 580's because it was available and "stupid-simple" (IOW, I wouldn't have to lord helmet around with setup menus to check/reconfigure the CD input to analog).
Both units are at least 100 RMS WPC, which is plenty adequate for these speakers! Honestly, I would expect a 70 WPC channel unit from any of the established manufacturers to do a fine job unless you really like to push things hard, but I should remind readers that towers are generally more efficient than bookshelf, so the bookshelf speakers might require more power (often you don't need it because you are usually in a smaller room and sitting closer with bookshelf speakers).
 

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