dbx Dynamic Range Expanders

[tubesaregood]

I have a couple of simple questions about these:

1) Will the older units with non color coded (I'm not sure if they're RCA or magnetic) inputs be able to handle high level RCA input?

2) Is it even worth it to use one of these with CD's?

 

[markw]

Iirc,

These were all line level decices. Of course, without a model number to go on it's jut a guess.

 

[porziob]

Dbx

Sinse these were designed to work in the tape monitor circut, they should be able to handle hi level signals. Using DBX w/ CDPs is an invitation to disaster (for your spkrs.) due to the already wide dynamic range of the CD.

 

[JoeE SP9]

Sinse these were designed to work in the tape monitor circut, they should be able to handle hi level signals. Using DBX w/ CDPs is an invitation to disaster (for your spkrs.) due to the already wide dynamic range of the CD.

What CD's are you talking about. Unless they are classical music the chances are damn near 100% that they have been compressed within an inch of their life.

 

[tubesaregood]

Well, I don't think that a dynamic range expander would lead to any damage to my speakers... That just doesn't make any sense. All I'd have to do is keep the volume down or lower the expansion effect...

I'm talking about any CD that isn't classical - mostly these CD's come from MP3 files, which are compressed even more. I know CD's are squashed real good, but I'm more looking at whether CD's are compressed more than analog recordings, and therefore if an expander would be of use to me since I don't listen to analog recordings. eek: )

Specifically, I'm talking about quite literally ANY dbx 1, 2, 3, or 4BX series I or II since dbx was in existence. They're on eBay quite regularly and I'm intrigued.

Thanks guys!

 

[Jack N]

I’ve had a 3BX, a couple of them in fact, since way back when. Just never bothered to get rid of them. A while back I installed one in the system for the first time in about 15 years just out of curiosity. I found that it’s certainly much easier to over expand now, limiting its’ usefulness by quite a bit. I did get some benefit out of it, but not what I was hoping for. I took it back out of the system because it complicated calibration by quite a bit. I’m more curious now about the units with impact restoration - but then I'd be right back where I was with the calibration problem.

You are correct, a dynamic range expander will not hurt your speakers as long as you use it sensibly. I used one in my old stereo system for a couple of decades and the speakers still worked fine until the day I gave them to my nephew.

 

[3db]

i n my experience

Well, I don't think that a dynamic range expander would lead to any damage to my speakers... That just doesn't make any sense. All I'd have to do is keep the volume down or lower the expansion effect...

I'm talking about any CD that isn't classical - mostly these CD's come from MP3 files, which are compressed even more. I know CD's are squashed real good, but I'm more looking at whether CD's are compressed more than analog recordings, and therefore if an expander would be of use to me since I don't listen to analog recordings. eek: )

Specifically, I'm talking about quite literally ANY dbx 1, 2, 3, or 4BX series I or II since dbx was in existence. They're on eBay quite regularly and I'm intrigued.

Thanks guys!

I found CDs to have far greater dynamic range than vinyl. Thats why companies like dbx sprang up to restore dynamic range back into vinyl during playback.

About the MP3s, if the bit rate is 256 and above, I noticed a smaller loss in dynamic range than the the lower bit rates. I perosbnally think that dbx is a waste of money on CDs and you may even have the signal clip on the input stage of the pre-amp.

 

[JoeE SP9]

Maybe I should get a DBX range expander.

What CD's have a large dynamic range? Name three? The current crop of available popular music CD's is so compressed I've been thinking that a DBX expander might help. Those who doubt this lack of dynamic range should do some investigation. The fact that Cd's are capable of enormous dynamic range is not reflected in the product released to the market. The average CD has a dynamic range of somewhere around 2db if that much.

 

[tubesaregood]

I found some info!

Actually, CD's have a dynamic range CAPABILITY of over 90 dB. Whether that range is reflected in what's recorded onto the disc is the debatable part. And I'm willing to bet that the dynamic range of the recorded material is very small.

That said, now I'm not sure if signal processors can really recoup all that much from a CD recording. I read on one website that a lot of recordings today are liberally clipped - which leads to a low dyanmic range already. So I'm not sure if trying to increase the gain of squarewaves would help a lot.

One of these days, I'll do my own firsthand research on this issue.

 

[wire]

Many years ago i used with CD's , it was 3bx . Then upgraded to sonic hologram by Bob Carver and never looked back .

 

[3db]

CD dynaic range is greater than vinyl

What CD's have a large dynamic range? Name three? The current crop of available popular music CD's is so compressed I've been thinking that a DBX expander might help. Those who doubt this lack of dynamic range should do some investigation. The fact that Cd's are capable of enormous dynamic range is not reflected in the product released to the market. The average CD has a dynamic range of somewhere around 2db if that much.

Dynamic range I thought, was the difference between how loud and how soft it plays. There is no vinyl I know without going thru a post processing like a dbx that comes anywhere close to that of a CD. Thats why they invented dbx in the 1st place, to expand the dynamic range of vinyl. Popular music recordings suck as they make them as loud as possible and keep the levels really high for the teen masses. Thats not to say that the range isn't possible. They are just not using it. Move to your classical music CDs, processed digitally staright thru, DDD, as opposed to AAD or ADD and you'll notice the dynamics are much greater than that of vinyl.

 

[JoeE SP9]

Dynamic range I thought, was the difference between how loud and how soft it plays. There is no vinyl I know without going thru a post processing like a dbx that comes anywhere close to that of a CD. Thats why they invented dbx in the 1st place, to expand the dynamic range of vinyl. Popular music recordings suck as they make them as loud as possible and keep the levels really high for the teen masses. Thats not to say that the range isn't possible. They are just not using it. Move to your classical music CDs, processed digitally staright thru, DDD, as opposed to AAD or ADD and you'll notice the dynamics are much greater than that of vinyl.

I don't disagree with you. My complaint is that with CD's being capable of +90db dynamic range why are virtually all popular music CD's compressed within an inch of their lives? What's the point of having great dynamic range if it's never used. BTW you can't place the blame for no dynamic range on any analog parts in the recording chain. Analog recorders and mixer/masterers have more dynamic range than the CD makers use.

 

[3db]

some cool reading on the topic

I don't disagree with you. My complaint is that with CD's being capable of +90db dynamic range why are virtually all popular music CD's compressed within an inch of their lives? What's the point of having great dynamic range if it's never used. BTW you can't place the blame for no dynamic range on any analog parts in the recording chain. Analog recorders and mixer/masterers have more dynamic range than the CD makers use.

here are some links I found;
http://www.recordtech.com/prodsounds.htm
http://georgegraham.com/compress.html


I don't know why popular music is recorded in this fashion. Maybe some of it has to do with the music itself, being played loud for the entire song/album. I ahave found groups like Tool, and NIN to play with dynamics a bit often incorportating a mellower softer piece right into the middle of a very loud angst ridden song. I quite like the affect *G* . But it does make me scramble for the volume control, espcially at night. Hey, maybe thats it, the recordin gindustry is trying to protect us from annoying our spouses?

 

[JoeE SP9]

3db, you should check out the vinyl and CD of The Red Hot Chili Peppers latest. For those who think vinyl has no dynamic range the comparison is an eye opener. You might also want to check out Steve Hoffman's site. He mastered the vinyl. It sounds an order of magnitude better than the CD.

 

[nibhaz]

If in fact you believe that the current vinyl pressings are better than there CD counter parts, its not do to the format itself. CD is in all technical aspects a better medium than vinyl.

However what you are probably experiencing is a better mix. Vinyl is a niche market and thus greater attention to detail is given to the mix that is going to be used. At least this is true for more popular items. The masses are given a compressed version because that's what they're used to hearing on the radio, and that's what sounds best on their entry level gear. Venture a away from Pop culture or find artists that actually care about their product and you will find CDs that actually utilizing their dynamic range.

The reason SACDs and DVD-As often sound better is because more attention is given to the mix, not necessarily their technical superiority.

As for artist that allow for bad mixes to be released, well it just shows that their prioritiy is money not art, and by purchasing their crap you are only encouraging more crap to be produced.

 

[JoeE SP9]

When most current CD's are compressed within an inch of their life and the corresponding LP releases have 3 or 4 times as much dynamic range the LP's are better. I am familiar with the potential superiority of CD's unfortunately most releases don't live up to the promise. 10 or 15db of dynamic range is far better than 1 or 2db

I have plenty of classical and operatic CD's that have enormous dynamic range and I have no complaint with them.

I mentioned The Red Hot Chili Peppers latest recording because it is available on vinyl and CD and the LP simply sounds better for no other reason than it has some dynamic range.

BTW: Don't confuse mixing with compression. It's not just attention to the mix that makes SACD's and DVD-A's sound better. It's the lack of post production compression that makes the greater difference. All the mixing in the world has no effect on compression. Compression is added separately by choice.