Dampening the Towers on carpet?

moves

moves

Audioholic Chief
Allo -

I have speakers and they weigh about 75 lbs each and will be placed on thick carpet. Kind of shaggy but not a full on shaggy shag.

Questions:

Do I put anything underneath them like some hardwood? The speakers have a ball bearing on the front with a spike but the rear of the speakers are touching flat/ parallel with the floor.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Don't see why you'd need to stick a piece of wood underneath. Spikes are sometimes used to keep them stable on carpet. If they're not moving/sliding I wouldn't worry about it. Never saw a speaker with a ball bearing either, what are they? Is it a bearing to allow you to roll it somewhat for positioning?
 
moves

moves

Audioholic Chief
Don't see why you'd need to stick a piece of wood underneath. Spikes are sometimes used to keep them stable on carpet. If they're not moving/sliding I wouldn't worry about it. Never saw a speaker with a ball bearing either, what are they? Is it a bearing to allow you to roll it somewhat for positioning?
They are the Totem Winds they are a little ball on the front of the front and only foot. I've seen speakers placed on various material and these people have said that they've noticed a difference in sound. I am not sure...... I figure before making a few hardwood cutting boards which are not cheap... I would ask :)


wind-hero-white@1x.png
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
According to the manual some speakers get three of those "claws" instead of just one. Doesn't seem it is to help roll it across a floor for positioning purposes, as it advises to find the position first. Otherwise doesn't seem to indicate a function for them (says you can leave them on or off depending on flooring but that's not much help). Have no idea. Totem can be a bit weird, especially reading about the "beak"....
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
For the life of me, I don't know how this kind of thing get so much attention and interest.

The woofer is near the middle of the tower, which means that, even if it was able to cause the thing to wobble, it would do very little because it's so close to the bottom. The tweeter will certainly not make the tower move and any thought that the mids could are wrong. If anything, the claw is to make the tower lean back a bit but at that height, the tweeters are above ear level unless someone is sitting on a bar stool.
 
moves

moves

Audioholic Chief
For the life of me, I don't know how this kind of thing get so much attention and interest. It gets interest because I don't want to spend money on something that won't make a difference. So that's why I am asking.

The woofer is near the middle of the tower, which means that, even if it was able to cause the thing to wobble, it would do very little because it's so close to the bottom. The tweeter will certainly not make the tower move and any thought that the mids could are wrong. If anything, the claw is to make the tower lean back a bit but at that height, the tweeters are above ear level unless someone is sitting on a bar stool.
I am not worrying about it wobbling and toppling over. I am asking because I am not sure how much, if at all, the cabinet vibrates. Hopefully it doesn't. Maybe putting something underneath helps a touch.. maybe it doesn't. I think I know your opinion on it.
 
moves

moves

Audioholic Chief
According to the manual some speakers get three of those "claws" instead of just one. Doesn't seem it is to help roll it across a floor for positioning purposes, as it advises to find the position first. Otherwise doesn't seem to indicate a function for them (says you can leave them on or off depending on flooring but that's not much help). Have no idea. Totem can be a bit weird, especially reading about the "beak"....
Def not used to roll the speaker. I can lift it without much trouble. It's used to point the speaker upwards a few degrees.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Def not used to roll the speaker. I can lift it without much trouble. It's used to point the speaker upwards a few degrees.
What about the manual where it shows three in use? Those cabinets don't need to be angled up?
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I am not worrying about it wobbling and toppling over. I am asking because I am not sure how much, if at all, the cabinet vibrates. Hopefully it doesn't. Maybe putting something underneath helps a touch.. maybe it doesn't. I think I know your opinion on it.
From the standpoint of stability on an irregular surface, a tripod wins over something with four feet because any variation will require a matchbook, piece of gum or something else to slip under the area that doesn't make contact. However, the feet that are shown make the speaker's footprint smaller than sitting directly on the floor. Carpet compresses, so it automatically takes the uneven surface out of the picture unless the floor is extremely uneven and/or the carpet is extremely thin. Give me a big footprint, any day.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
The photo shows what looks like a black horizontal part, which could be decorative, or maybe it's a knurled disc that allows adjusting the height- can you let us know what it is? Could be the way it's fastened to the bottom, so tools aren't used, too.
 
moves

moves

Audioholic Chief
What about the manual where it shows three in use? Those cabinets don't need to be angled up?
The ones with the 3 feet are one model up from the ones I have. I only have the front one. About the angling up, I'm sure they have a sonic reason for it.
 
moves

moves

Audioholic Chief
The photo shows what looks like a black horizontal part, which could be decorative, or maybe it's a knurled disc that allows adjusting the height- can you let us know what it is? Could be the way it's fastened to the bottom, so tools aren't used, too.
The black marking on the front of the silver spike is just the black company symbol. I think the moree expensive tripod model (wind design) you may be able to adjust the angles.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
The ones with the 3 feet are one model up from the ones I have. I only have the front one. About the angling up, I'm sure they have a sonic reason for it.
Who knows, the manual doesn't explain. In any case you're on thick carpeting and you're over-thinking this...
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I've seen speakers placed on various material and these people have said that they've noticed a difference in sound.
In the chain of what it takes for us to evaluate sound quality, the mind is a very "fluid" instrument.

I think there are two psychological influences at play when people believe things like this (and I am absolutely NOT saying it is not their subjective truth, only that it is not an absolute truth)!

First, if you invest care, time, and attention into something (like changing the surface beneath your speakers), you are building the anticipation that you are making improvements, and that sets you up to enjoy the sound more even though there is no actual change! Truthfully, I can't know that there is no change, but there is no good reason to believe there would be an audible difference and that it is dramatic enough to be clearly better or worse. This is why double blind experiments are important if you really want the absolute truth.

Second, we are pretty susceptible to suggestion. As a kid, I got a new pair of PF Flyers (tennis shoes if your are too young to know), and I was totally convinced I ran faster and jumped higher; just like the commercial said. Our audio memory is not very precise by any means. I feel pretty good about a subjective comparison involving instantaneous switching between two conditions, but if you take even a minute to swap the sound, things get very iffy very quickly! So you unlikely wouldn't be very good at detecting any difference, and confronted with inconclusive information, the perceived difference between the sound from changing surface material under a speaker is probably going to be what you want/expect it to be.

So yes, there are probably plenty of people who buy into lots of "tricks" to improve sound and they are telling their honest truth. But there is no good reason for you to believe it unless it was a double blind test, or could be objectively measured using instruments (such as microphones and analytical software these days).

The one caveat to this is if the cabinet is on a hard surface and it is able to wobble on that surface. Naturally, you are introducing a vibration that should not exist. Generally, soft feet/cushions which provide support at all four corners insure no vibration. It looks like Totem my have been going for a 3 points of support model (which cannot wobble).

I should also note that plenty of people have sworn to decisive improvements from expensive cables which were later determined to actually decrease sound quality!
 
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Johnny2Bad

Johnny2Bad

Audioholic Chief
They are the Totem Winds they are a little ball on the front of the front and only foot. I've seen speakers placed on various material and these people have said that they've noticed a difference in sound. I am not sure...... I figure before making a few hardwood cutting boards which are not cheap... I would ask :)


View attachment 23979
Almost any change in the listening environment or stability of the system (more or less) will cause "a difference in sound". In your example, "various material" may resonate and different materials may resonate differently.

More to the point, a change in sound doesn't necessarily mean an improvement in sound.

In your particular case, "spikes" under speakers are designed to penetrate the carpeted surface to at least the carpet backing and ideally to the subfloor. Whether spikes are *actually* the best way to support a speaker or component is subject to debate, and may be specific to a component ... works with some, not with others. The idea is they rigidly secure the speaker from moving due to it's own vibrational energy (playing music).

On the other hand, they may not actually isolate the speaker, but instead transfer vibration to the subfloor which can resonate itself. Part of the answer would lie in how well your floor is constructed or how old the floor and the support beams under it are. If your floor squeaks when you walk near the speakers, spikes may be a poor choice.

There are other means to support speakers, such as the IsoAcoustics platforms, which are fairly common in Pro Audio, a little less so in home audio. Not cheap though ... we're talking hundreds of dollars for one pair of speakers.

With your speakers, having one spike and two (or is it the entire back edge?) resting, since this is the manufacturer's setup, maybe having the one spike to securely locate the speaker and not having more than one to transfer vibration to the subfloor is really the best solution.

I guess it depends on how much thought you think the manufacturer put into it, although you might think that since they are employing a somewhat unusual setup, maybe they really did come to that configuration through testing. It should be noted that in most speakers the baffle is the heaviest part, and weight does help to minimize transfer to a sound (as in "well constructed") floor. Furthermore, Totem Acoustic is well known for including vibration and environmental solutions in their products; it's part of their DNA.

So maybe the answer is to do nothing, spend nothing, and carry on.
 
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moves

moves

Audioholic Chief
Almost any change in the listening environment or stability of the system (more or less) will cause "a difference in sound". In your example, "various material" may resonate and different materials may resonate differently.

More to the point, a change in sound doesn't necessarily mean an improvement in sound.

In your particular case, "spikes" under speakers are designed to penetrate the carpeted surface to at least the carpet backing and ideally to the subfloor. Whether spikes are *actually* the best way to support a speaker or component is subject to debate, and may be specific to a component ... works with some, not with others. The idea is they rigidly secure the speaker from moving due to it's own vibrational energy (playing music).

On the other hand, they may not actually isolate the speaker, but instead transfer vibration to the subfloor which can resonate itself. Part of the answer would lie in how well your floor is constructed or how old the floor and the support beams under it are. If your floor squeaks when you walk near the speakers, spikes may be a poor choice.

There are other means to support speakers, such as the IsoAcoustics platforms, which are fairly common in Pro Audio, a little less so in home audio. Not cheap though ... we're talking hundreds of dollars for one pair of speakers.

With your speakers, having one spike and two (or is it the entire back edge?) resting, since this is the manufacturer's setup, maybe having the one spike to securely locate the speaker and not having more than one to transfer vibration to the subfloor is really the best solution.

I guess it depends on how much thought you think the manufacturer put into it, although you might think that since they are employing a somewhat unusual setup, maybe they really did come to that configuration through testing. It should be noted that in most speakers the baffle is the heaviest part, and weight does help to minimize transfer to a sound (as in "well constructed") floor. Furthermore, Totem Acoustic is well known for including vibration and environmental solutions in their products; it's part of their DNA.

So maybe the answer is to do nothing, spend nothing, and carry on.
They are called spikes but they are not actually pointy spikes that would penetrate into the carpet. I have the model with only the front footing and the front bottom footing is flat machined steel where there is a cut out that houses a ball. This ball is meant to sit on something hard. Having this on carpet doesn't make any sense because the ball just sinks in and is not decoupling anything. I think like everyone here said, I'll just leave it as is and just not use the steel ball that is included when on the carpet.

I do have an Aurelex subwoofer base that I can try out... however, I only have one.

This is minor.... I have other things to spend money on first (see pros and joes gallery forum) but thought that this would be something to get some insight on.

Thanks peeps!
 
Johnny2Bad

Johnny2Bad

Audioholic Chief
They are called spikes but they are not actually pointy spikes that would penetrate into the carpet. I have the model with only the front footing and the front bottom footing is flat machined steel where there is a cut out that houses a ball. This ball is meant to sit on something hard. Having this on carpet doesn't make any sense because the ball just sinks in and is not decoupling anything. I think like everyone here said, I'll just leave it as is and just not use the steel ball that is included when on the carpet.

I do have an Aurelex subwoofer base that I can try out... however, I only have one.

This is minor.... I have other things to spend money on first (see pros and joes gallery forum) but thought that this would be something to get some insight on.

Thanks peeps!
I could suggest a DIY solution. I saw some spike bases (designed to be placed under a spike on hardwood floors) that had 3 short spikes on a Stainless disk about 3" in diameter but I have no idea of the brand or what exactly they were called.

But ... if you go to a Sporting Goods store, where they cater to bowhunters, you can ask for three field points and three inserts (they will know what you are talking about, when they ask what arrows you use, just tell them you aren't using them for bowhunting and to give you whatever size is cheapest).

Then to a machine shop, show them the inserts, and explain you want an aluminum or brass disk (cheaper to machine than SS) with three equidistant holes bored near the outside edge, to fit the outside dimension of the inserts. Not too thick because you don't want to tilt your speakers back too much, so only as thick as the insert will travel, maybe just a bit thicker and tell them you want a blind hole (so the insert won't be visible from the top side). You could even go quite thin (say, ⅜") if you don't mind seeing the ends of the insert popping through.

Explain you don't need a tight fit, just enough to easily tap in the insert (which is aluminum) and maybe three inches or so in diameter.

For the sake of illustration, let's say it ends up being 3" x ⅝", with the centerline of the holes drilled ½" from the outside edge; that will be the "bottom" side. If you need something to locate the footer on your Totems (I don't know what they look like) maybe have them also machine a dimple on the top side to fit the footer so it doesn't move once installed.

Now go home, mix up a little epoxy, don't need much, and lightly coat the insert with a toothpick before tapping it gently into the three holes bored in the bottom of the disk. Wait a day (even if the epoxy package says it sets in a few minutes, it gets stronger over 24 hours) and then screw in the field points. If you have a girlfriend / sister / mom, ask to borrow some nail polish and before you screw them in, put a tiny dab covering three threads of the field points near but not at the inside or outside end if you want, that will insure they don't loosen.

They might balk at your plans when you explain what you want it for, but every girl has nail polish she doesn't use anymore. Just don't get anything with glitter or whatever in it, plain coloured or clear nail polish does the trick. Of course if you have LocTite laying around you can use that, but don't go out and buy a bottle, the nail polish (lacquer with a little pigment) works fine for free, and the brush applicator is perfect for the job.

You will now have a disk with three spikes, so it is stable and won't move, those field points will definitely get through the carpet (they're sharp) and you can place the front single footer, whatever it looks like, on the top.

Advanced Snake Oil: you could put a small ball of Blu-Tak between your disk and the Totem's footer. Like a ¼" ball of the stuff.

Total cost would depend mostly on the machining; I don't know what a shop around you would charge but around here maybe $30, maybe less. (I get most of my machining done for the price of material, which is sometimes free scrap, and a box of beer).

Shop around (talk to at least three shops, and seek out ones with an old grizzled machinist using manual lathes if you can find one ... the CNC guys might want to charge you a setup fee, which isn't worth it for a one-off). Maybe even call a Community College with a Machinist course and get a student to do one, would be cheap, probably.

The field points and inserts will give you change from a tenner, maybe a five.

Not saying to buy from these guys, just the first hit in Google ...

Example: Field Points (you can get as "snake oil" as you like with shape and material, but black steel works fine):

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/arrows/arrow-components/screw-in-points.html

Example: Inserts (don't get too fancy here, just make sure they fit your field points and aren't too long):

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/victory-aluminum-insert.html

You don't have to be married to the metal disk part ... if you're handy you could use wood instead ... plywood or even something that fits your decor ... and just drill those holes yourself, make a dimple on the top with a large bit not drilled too deeply, and away you go.

Probably safest to mark out your disk first, drill your holes, and then get the jigsaw out instead of trying to drill a small disk after it's cut out.
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Second, we are pretty susceptible to suggestion. As a kid, I got a new pair of PF Flyers (tennis shoes if your are too young to know), and I was totally convinced I ran faster and jumped higher; just like the commercial said. Our audio memory is not very precise by any means. I feel pretty good about a subjective comparison involving instantaneous switching between two conditions, but if you take even a minute to swap the sound, things get very iffy very quickly! So you unlikely wouldn't be very good at detecting any difference, and confronted with inconclusive information, the perceived difference between the sound from changing surface material under a speaker is probably going to be what you want/expect it to be.
I burned up on re-entry after switching from Keds to PF Flyers and I was never particularly fast.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
They are called spikes but they are not actually pointy spikes that would penetrate into the carpet. I have the model with only the front footing and the front bottom footing is flat machined steel where there is a cut out that houses a ball. This ball is meant to sit on something hard. Having this on carpet doesn't make any sense because the ball just sinks in and is not decoupling anything. I think like everyone here said, I'll just leave it as is and just not use the steel ball that is included when on the carpet.

I do have an Aurelex subwoofer base that I can try out... however, I only have one.

This is minor.... I have other things to spend money on first (see pros and joes gallery forum) but thought that this would be something to get some insight on.

Thanks peeps!
Your carpet is already doing the decoupling.
 
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