Dallas shooting

[GO-NAD!]

I'd seen this some time ago but had forgotten where it was, so thanks for bringing it up. When it comes to data crunching, economists tend to bring a unique perspective and one that eschews simplistic correlations leading to unwarranted claims.

I'll probably write to him in the hopes he may be able to come up with some papers that have been published. I think it was in the first Freakonomics book they had a chapter which was titled something like Why Do Drug Dealers Still Live At Home? Basically, they found that the drug business is very much ripen like McDonalds and the people at the bottom didn't make all that much. It's only when you get to the top where money is made but the turnover rate is pretty high.

Comments such as he made aren't going to sit well with the BLM crowd nor with politicians who relish carving up America into its many slices and then looking to manage those slices. I remember back in third grade my teacher, Mrs. Somma, a domineering bitch of a lady if ever there was one, asked me what nationality I was. American I replied. Then she said what I mean is where were your parents born? Here in the US. Ok, what about your grandparents. She had me on that one and then pronounced that I wasn't really an American. This perplexed me as I'm sure not everyone in France or Germany could trace their lineage to their respective countries but according to her they weren't hyphenated.

I have no idea how BLM would react to such data, but we can't read into it that there is no bias within our police forces. It's just one aspect of the problem to consider when discussing it. I understand that BLM is a bit controversial in the US (chapters have been created up here also) and are regarded as radical rabble-rousers by many. Regardless, the movement - and the Dallas shooter - didn't come out of a vacuum. They may not always be rational, but neither were many of the shootings that created them.

The events we are seeing are all part of a vicious circle of institutional racism, poverty, crime and mistrust that must be broken before we see change.

There is widespread fear and mistrust between black people and police - it clearly goes in each direction - and, justified or not, it's very real.

 

[Chu Gai]

I have no idea how BLM would react to such data, but we can't read into it that there is no bias within our police forces. It's just one aspect of the problem to consider when discussing it. I understand that BLM is a bit controversial in the US (chapters have been created up here also) and are regarded as radical rabble-rousers by many. Regardless, the movement - and the Dallas shooter - didn't come out of a vacuum. They may not always be rational, but neither were many of the shootings that created them.

The events we are seeing are all part of a vicious circle of institutional racism, poverty, crime and mistrust that must be broken before we see change.

There is widespread fear and mistrust between black people and police - it clearly goes in each direction - and, justified or not, it's very real.

It's not just BLM but the big money organizations that fund it, the media, sundry politicians including the POTUS and AG, religious leaders, etc. at least WRT whether they're specifically being singled out because of color. I have to add before I go much further that the available data based upon that NYT article needs a more detailed and rigorous analysis.

IMO, racist might be the wrong term to apply with such a broad stroke. Prejudiced, bigoted, biased all come to mind. These biases in whatever term that is used exist not only in the police force but through the society regardless of what group we happen to look at. Black men are taken to task for marrying a non-black woman. There was even a study Brazil that showed women with darker complexions made less than lighter skinned ones.

Getting back to the police, absolutely you want to do a better job of identifying and getting rid of the head cases. I don't know how that can be done in the most effective way. In the case of the incident in MN where a cop, Asian I believe shot the driver while his GF live streamed most of the incident, it was reported that this was all about a broken tail light. Now we're hearing it had to do with the driver having some resemblance to a robbery suspect. Which is right? Did the man disobey the officer's instructions? Was there another approach that could have been taken? I don't know but I do know people including elected officials are running without all the facts being present and that's a dangerous thing.

 

[GO-NAD!]

It's not just BLM but the big money organizations that fund it, the media, sundry politicians including the POTUS and AG, religious leaders, etc. at least WRT whether they're specifically being singled out because of color. I have to add before I go much further that the available data based upon that NYT article needs a more detailed and rigorous analysis.

IMO, racist might be the wrong term to apply with such a broad stroke. Prejudiced, bigoted, biased all come to mind. These biases in whatever term that is used exist not only in the police force but through the society regardless of what group we happen to look at. Black men are taken to task for marrying a non-black woman. There was even a study Brazil that showed women with darker complexions made less than lighter skinned ones.

Getting back to the police, absolutely you want to do a better job of identifying and getting rid of the head cases. I don't know how that can be done in the most effective way. In the case of the incident in MN where a cop, Asian I believe shot the driver while his GF live streamed most of the incident, it was reported that this was all about a broken tail light. Now we're hearing it had to do with the driver having some resemblance to a robbery suspect. Which is right? Did the man disobey the officer's instructions? Was there another approach that could have been taken? I don't know but I do know people including elected officials are running without all the facts being present and that's a dangerous thing.

Yeah, "racist" is a pretty broad term. Prejudice and bias are more apt, as you imply. We all must understand that, as human beings, we all harbour ingrained bias. It's part and parcel of who we are. We will need eliminate it, so we each of us needs to exercise some introspection and learn to recognise when we are acting in accordance with our biases and curb that behaviour. It might not be race - it could be religion, class, socioeconomic status - whatever it is, we need to understand it. And, for sure, the recent incidents need further investigation before drawing conclusions.

 

[Chu Gai]

One thing I've though about the incident in Dallas is how the police chief was praised for taking a very non-confrontational approach to the demonstrators. Summer uniforms, shorts, no body armor, etc. I'm wondering whether the absence of protective gear could have in some way contributed to some of the deaths? It's like a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. I also not that Iron Man, Spider-Man, Thor, and Batman didn't bother to show up.

POTUS is said to be cutting short his European trip to fly back in light of the shootings. Being the cynic that I am, I expect he'll go golfing within a week.

 

[highfigh]

I remember back in third grade my teacher, Mrs. Somma, a domineering bitch of a lady if ever there was one, asked me what nationality I was. American I replied. Then she said what I mean is where were your parents born? Here in the US. Ok, what about your grandparents. She had me on that one and then pronounced that I wasn't really an American. This perplexed me as I'm sure not everyone in France or Germany could trace their lineage to their respective countries but according to her they weren't hyphenated.

Too bad she wasn't your teacher when you were older- maybe you would have been able to explain the difference between nationality and ethnic lineage.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I normally don't like Hansen but I agree with him here.

The night before last I told myself that I would put the blue tape on my back window of my car, I told myself that I would go out of my way to be nice to anyone, that I crossed paths with, that was of a different race than me and I texted all my buddies, who are police officers, and told them to be safe and that I cared about them. I decided I would call or text them more frequently to let them know I am thinking about them.

The next morning I found I was too busy with my normal life and I forgot to put the tape on my car, I forgot to be nice to strangers I ran across and I forgot to follow up with my buddies.

 

[highfigh]

I have no idea how BLM would react to such data, but we can't read into it that there is no bias within our police forces. It's just one aspect of the problem to consider when discussing it. I understand that BLM is a bit controversial in the US (chapters have been created up here also) and are regarded as radical rabble-rousers by many. Regardless, the movement - and the Dallas shooter - didn't come out of a vacuum. They may not always be rational, but neither were many of the shootings that created them.

The events we are seeing are all part of a vicious circle of institutional racism, poverty, crime and mistrust that must be broken before we see change.

There is widespread fear and mistrust between black people and police - it clearly goes in each direction - and, justified or not, it's very real.

Take a group of people in any country and you'll find many of the same characteristics that are found in others. You can't expect to select people for the police departments who have absolutely zero opinions on various issues, including people of different races. If they don't have these opinions when they join, they will later. Look at how some segments of the population deal with the police- they hate anyone in uniform, are willing to fight to the death when confronted by them & want them dead and refuse to give information about the stupid number of crimes because "Snitches get stitches". These are the same ones who wail and cry when a family member or someone they know is killed- the first thing they ask is "Where were the police? They should have stopped this!".

How many Black people do you know and how many have you interacted with? If it's not more than several hundreds, don't tell anyone how to think about them or anything about them. I'm not writing this as a comment about Blacks, it's a comment about people who don't have direct experience about what they're telling others. As bad as the problems are, the practice of stopping people for minor traffic offenses results in a huge number of arrests for more serious crimes. The fact is, it gets criminals off of the streets. Conversely, Blacks often don't trust each other, either. As a former neighbor said, "Blacks fall all over themselves trying to screw each other and when someone who actually wants to help comes along, they aren't trusted, either". George is Black. He has huge problems with the way Blacks are screwing themselves. I went to WalMart yesterday and as I was on my way out, the people who check receipts to see if they match what's in the bags stopped several Black people, yet they let me go without any question. Occasionally, I need to show my receipt, but it's rare and most of the people working there are Black. That store also has a huge problem with shoplifting and guess who's doing it?

Ever had someone spit in your face? The Police have to deal with that on a regular basis. Imagine that you want to try to do your job and have people fight with you, try to take your weapon, attempt to drive over you, shoot at you, throw rocks/bottles/bricks at you and you're in the area because you're trying to gather information about a crime against someone who lives there. You're there to help, but some want to hurt you. How long before you adopt a "Why bother?" attitude?

Now, imagine that you went there to fight a fire or you's an EMT. People shoot at them, too. They can't even go into a crime scene to save lives until the police clear the area and when that's required, people die. I have NEVER heard of that happening in any area where the population is very diverse.

Statistics don't lie, but they can be skewed. We can't profile for terrorists because it's not politically correct, but it would result in stopping more events. Stopping people for "driving while Black" and the "Broken windows" polices work, period.

Laws are ignored every second of every day. How long can we, as a society, accept that?

 

[highfigh]

One thing I've though about the incident in Dallas is how the police chief was praised for taking a very non-confrontational approach to the demonstrators. Summer uniforms, shorts, no body armor, etc. I'm wondering whether the absence of protective gear could have in some way contributed to some of the deaths? It's like a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. I also not that Iron Man, Spider-Man, Thor, and Batman didn't bother to show up.

POTUS is said to be cutting short his European trip to fly back in light of the shootings. Being the cynic that I am, I expect he'll go golfing within a week.

If I was a cop, there's no way I would have gone to a march without body armor. That makes these deaths inevitable, but it's seen as non-confrontational. The protesters cause the opportunity for confrontation- it's the reason they march. Doesn't have to be violent, but protests when race is involved are almost never peaceful, for a variety of reasons.

 

[Chu Gai]

Here's one black police officer's perspective on what he goes through while doing his job in Florida.

https://www.facebook.com/jay.stalien/posts/911372818974402

 

[GO-NAD!]

Take a group of people in any country and you'll find many of the same characteristics that are found in others. You can't expect to select people for the police departments who have absolutely zero opinions on various issues, including people of different races. If they don't have these opinions when they join, they will later. Look at how some segments of the population deal with the police- they hate anyone in uniform, are willing to fight to the death when confronted by them & want them dead and refuse to give information about the stupid number of crimes because "Snitches get stitches". These are the same ones who wail and cry when a family member or someone they know is killed- the first thing they ask is "Where were the police? They should have stopped this!".

How many Black people do you know and how many have you interacted with? If it's not more than several hundreds, don't tell anyone how to think about them or anything about them. I'm not writing this as a comment about Blacks, it's a comment about people who don't have direct experience about what they're telling others. As bad as the problems are, the practice of stopping people for minor traffic offenses results in a huge number of arrests for more serious crimes. The fact is, it gets criminals off of the streets. Conversely, Blacks often don't trust each other, either. As a former neighbor said, "Blacks fall all over themselves trying to screw each other and when someone who actually wants to help comes along, they aren't trusted, either". George is Black. He has huge problems with the way Blacks are screwing themselves. I went to WalMart yesterday and as I was on my way out, the people who check receipts to see if they match what's in the bags stopped several Black people, yet they let me go without any question. Occasionally, I need to show my receipt, but it's rare and most of the people working there are Black. That store also has a huge problem with shoplifting and guess who's doing it?

Ever had someone spit in your face? The Police have to deal with that on a regular basis. Imagine that you want to try to do your job and have people fight with you, try to take your weapon, attempt to drive over you, shoot at you, throw rocks/bottles/bricks at you and you're in the area because you're trying to gather information about a crime against someone who lives there. You're there to help, but some want to hurt you. How long before you adopt a "Why bother?" attitude?

Now, imagine that you went there to fight a fire or you's an EMT. People shoot at them, too. They can't even go into a crime scene to save lives until the police clear the area and when that's required, people die. I have NEVER heard of that happening in any area where the population is very diverse.

Statistics don't lie, but they can be skewed. We can't profile for terrorists because it's not politically correct, but it would result in stopping more events. Stopping people for "driving while Black" and the "Broken windows" polices work, period.

Laws are ignored every second of every day. How long can we, as a society, accept that?

Wow. You clearly have a very strong opinion about this. I never claimed that police aren't placed in difficult circumstances not of their making. Society at large is responsible for them and we ask the police to do the dirty work. I get that, but we can't give them carte blanche to do whatever they want. And, I know there are problems within the black community that only they must address. But, as I said, our society is responsible for the good and the bad within it.

I stand by my previous comments.

 

[highfigh]

Wow. You clearly have a very strong opinion about this. I never claimed that police aren't placed in difficult circumstances not of their making. Society at large is responsible for them and we ask the police to do the dirty work. I get that, but we can't give them carte blanche to do whatever they want. And, I know there are problems within the black community that only they must address. But, as I said, our society is responsible for the good and the bad within it.

I stand by my previous comments.

The following comments aren't directed at any particular group because ALL fail, to some extent.

I prefer to think that people are, or should be, responsible for their own actions but the results of bad parenting simply can't be ignored or underestimated. Look at the number of kids dropping out of school or graduating with almost no useful skills or reading ability- they may not have tried, may not understand the material, might be distracted by the disruptive kids, might BE the disruptive kids or they might be in the position of having to do things for a family that only an adult should be required to do- in any case, I think bad behavior and acceptance of it accumulates over time. Also, I would think that problem solving and conflict resolution would be a no-brainer class in schools- life is full of both and the more kids are able to deal with both effectively, it seems fairly logical that they might be better at it than what we're seeing. I can't imagine anyone wanting all of these problems and the resulting violence and that goes for EVERYONE, not just Blacks. In some cases, it's just better to leave, than allow something to escalate. If the other person won't allow leaving, THEN, there's no choice but for the situation to become ugly.

I just don't understand the thought processes- do people even think about the fact that some act light be illegal or that it might harm someone? It really doesn't seem so.

It might be interesting to see what might have become of some of the victims of random/senseless/accidental killings but knowing would just add to the tragedy.

I think I have posted about a former neighbor who was a cop- it would be interesting to have his thoughts about current events and what went through his mind during and after he shot & killed a would-be armed robber at a gas station/convenience store when he was off-duty. Both Black and the only comment I remember him making was "It was him, or me".

 

[GO-NAD!]

The following comments aren't directed at any particular group because ALL fail, to some extent.

I prefer to think that people are, or should be, responsible for their own actions but the results of bad parenting simply can't be ignored or underestimated. Look at the number of kids dropping out of school or graduating with almost no useful skills or reading ability- they may not have tried, may not understand the material, might be distracted by the disruptive kids, might BE the disruptive kids or they might be in the position of having to do things for a family that only an adult should be required to do- in any case, I think bad behavior and acceptance of it accumulates over time. Also, I would think that problem solving and conflict resolution would be a no-brainer class in schools- life is full of both and the more kids are able to deal with both effectively, it seems fairly logical that they might be better at it than what we're seeing. I can't imagine anyone wanting all of these problems and the resulting violence and that goes for EVERYONE, not just Blacks. In some cases, it's just better to leave, than allow something to escalate. If the other person won't allow leaving, THEN, there's no choice but for the situation to become ugly.

I just don't understand the thought processes- do people even think about the fact that some act light be illegal or that it might harm someone? It really doesn't seem so.

It might be interesting to see what might have become of some of the victims of random/senseless/accidental killings but knowing would just add to the tragedy.

I think I have posted about a former neighbor who was a cop- it would be interesting to have his thoughts about current events and what went through his mind during and after he shot & killed a would-be armed robber at a gas station/convenience store when he was off-duty. Both Black and the only comment I remember him making was "It was him, or me".

I think we can all agree that the vast majority of shootings by police are fully justified. But, when questionable ones occur in an age where cameras are absolutely everywhere, we can't but expect that people will get very upset. And, when cameras catch officers tampering or staging evidence to put themselves in a more positive light (not that I have seen any indication that this is the case in either of the recent shootings), it erodes trust in all police.

As for the social conditions that lead to the problems you have just described, I have no answer to that.

In a perfect world, people would be completely responsible for their actions. But, our society creates the people who do wrong. If you beat a dog constantly until it attacks you, you may have to put the dog down, but you also have to assume some responsibility for its actions.

 

[Chu Gai]

Find out who / what's behind the Black Lives Matter terror group, and kill those 'leaders'.

"Kill the head and the body dies"

You're a bit over the top there. These protests and demonstrations that occur through the country and even Canada, aren't orchestrated by whoever the titular heads are. Rather there are people who do play a prominent role in marshaling the people. So to me anyways, it would be of interest to find out who they are and something about them perhaps from their writings or posts on social media and how they're funded. This violence that we are seeing s not going to work in their favor as I see it alienating so called liberal elements. Anarchists, self proclaimed militant communists, and just outright angry and raging people are going to be the only ones left.

 

[GO-NAD!]

You're a bit over the top there. These protests and demonstrations that occur through the country and even Canada, aren't orchestrated by whoever the titular heads are. Rather there are people who do play a prominent role in marshaling the people. So to me anyways, it would be of interest to find out who they are and something about them perhaps from their writings or posts on social media and how they're funded. This violence that we are seeing s not going to work in their favor as I see it alienating so called liberal elements. Anarchists, self proclaimed militant communists, and just outright angry and raging people are going to be the only ones left.

Absolutely over the top - and counter-productive. Murdering protest group leaders is the strategy of tyrannical police states. Is that what we want? Ghandi and MLK's tactics of non-violence were far more effective than any rioting will ever be.

And yes, the BLM movement needs to tread carefully if it wants to maintain public support. Right now, it does have fairly widespread support, as many photos I've seen of the protests include plenty of white faces. I don't know if it received any news coverage in the US, but at the recent Pride parade in Toronto, BLM was given the honour of leading the parade. Well, in "gratitude", they stopped the parade part way through and staged a sit-down protest. They presented the Pride organizers with a list of demands, including more visible minority representation in the Pride organization, funding for BLM activities and - most controversially - barring police participation in further Pride parades. Of course, people further back in the parade had no idea what was going on at the front, other than that it had come to a halt. With Orlando still on everyone's minds, it started to cause a lot of anxiety in the participants. Eventually, the Pride head signed the demands, stating later that he had no intention of honouring them, because they had been signed under duress and only wanted to get the parade moving again - rightly so, IMO.

So, here we had a couple of marginalized groups - African-Canadians and LGBT's - butting heads. If BLM's aim was to get media coverage - the movement is far less prominent in Canada, than in the US - it succeeded in spades. If the goal was to have its demands complied with, it failed miserably. It took many years to get relations between the police and LGBT in Canada to the "happy" state they are in today. To ban police participation would be a backward step. And, I have not seen any indication that, prior to the parade, BLM simply asked Pride leadership to address the issues they were concerned about, but decided to spring it on them during the parade. Such tactics will not be helpful.

 

[highfigh]

I think we can all agree that the vast majority of shootings by police are fully justified. But, when questionable ones occur in an age where cameras are absolutely everywhere, we can't but expect that people will get very upset. And, when cameras catch officers tampering or staging evidence to put themselves in a more positive light (not that I have seen any indication that this is the case in either of the recent shootings), it erodes trust in all police.

As for the social conditions that lead to the problems you have just described, I have no answer to that.

In a perfect world, people would be completely responsible for their actions. But, our society creates the people who do wrong. If you beat a dog constantly until it attacks you, you may have to put the dog down, but you also have to assume some responsibility for its actions.

I don't know why Castile's girlfriend was so calm- never seen that before, especially from someone sitting next to the person who was shot. The cop sounds more upset, to me and I didn't even see his face in the video- did he know she was recording? I haven't seen any comments from him, yet.

I doubt many officers intentionally kill someone (hope not) and, although they pull non-white people over for things that might slide for Whites, I think the only way we hear that a department has a policy about this is from disgruntled former cops and then, it's only heresay unless they can prove it. The fact is, I have seen Black cops who were more aggressive than some White cops. I have been listening to a Police scanner app on my phone lately and hear a lot of traffic stops that end with a warning and have even passed the cars while I was driving. I also hear calls for things that make me believe the participants just don't care that it's illegal and they may be arrested. Here, it's not always a case of DWB, although this suburban city does have a reputation for it. The most recent case where one of our officers was involved in any gunfire, it was the officer who was shot at and grazed by someone who had stolen a car and fled at high speed once the officer lit him up for that theft (something that is rampant here).

I don't understand why the widely leapt-to assumption that the police are guilty of murder when an incident requires split second reactions is adopted so easily. I have seen videos of many officers firing into a car for far too long, though. In many cases, it's hard to see who's driving a car but it's pretty easy to guess, based on how the car is decked out and in some cases and parts of the city, the condition of the car. However, handing out a series of fines to people who are too poor to pay for car repairs really puts a financial crunch on them and I'd be pretty PO'd, too.

If the police are caught tampering with evidence/staging scenes, they deserve the full wrath of the people they're supposed to serve but when people with long rap sheets and long history of criminal activity are killed, are we supposed to believe they suddenly sprouted angel's wings? Default for the police should never be "shoot first, ask questions later", but the default for traffic/street stops shouldn't be "fight to the death when being honest and civil means everyone gets to go home", either. If a cop is aggressive, it would be better to take a few lumps and let a lawyer sue the department, IMO.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I don't know why Castile's girlfriend was so calm- never seen that before, especially from someone sitting next to the person who was shot. The cop sounds more upset, to me and I didn't even see his face in the video- did he know she was recording? I haven't seen any comments from him, yet.

I doubt many officers intentionally kill someone (hope not) and, although they pull non-white people over for things that might slide for Whites, I think the only way we hear that a department has a policy about this is from disgruntled former cops and then, it's only heresay unless they can prove it. The fact is, I have seen Black cops who were more aggressive than some White cops. I have been listening to a Police scanner app on my phone lately and hear a lot of traffic stops that end with a warning and have even passed the cars while I was driving. I also hear calls for things that make me believe the participants just don't care that it's illegal and they may be arrested. Here, it's not always a case of DWB, although this suburban city does have a reputation for it. The most recent case where one of our officers was involved in any gunfire, it was the officer who was shot at and grazed by someone who had stolen a car and fled at high speed once the officer lit him up for that theft (something that is rampant here).

I don't understand why the widely leapt-to assumption that the police are guilty of murder when an incident requires split second reactions is adopted so easily. I have seen videos of many officers firing into a car for far too long, though. In many cases, it's hard to see who's driving a car but it's pretty easy to guess, based on how the car is decked out and in some cases and parts of the city, the condition of the car. However, handing out a series of fines to people who are too poor to pay for car repairs really puts a financial crunch on them and I'd be pretty PO'd, too.

If the police are caught tampering with evidence/staging scenes, they deserve the full wrath of the people they're supposed to serve but when people with long rap sheets and long history of criminal activity are killed, are we supposed to believe they suddenly sprouted angel's wings? Default for the police should never be "shoot first, ask questions later", but the default for traffic/street stops shouldn't be "fight to the death when being honest and civil means everyone gets to go home", either. If a cop is aggressive, it would be better to take a few lumps and let a lawyer sue the department, IMO.

I heard some psychologist speaking about her calm demeanor, saying that there is no "normal" reaction to such an event and you can see the full range of emotions when somebody is in shock.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting that shootings where a police officer is found culpable means there was intent. I would think that intent would be extremely rare. In most cases, where the shooting is deemed unjustified, I would say that it comes down to excessive force or over-reaction to a perceived threat. It's quite clear that police officers are granted a lot of leeway by the courts when these things happen, as convictions are pretty rare. Still, I would not like to be in such a situation. Cops get judged pretty harshly by some segments of society - unfairly so, in many cases.

 

[highfigh]

I heard some psychologist speaking about her calm demeanor, saying that there is no "normal" reaction to such an event and you can see the full range of emotions when somebody is in shock.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting that shootings where a police officer is found culpable means there was intent. I would think that intent would be extremely rare. In most cases, where the shooting is deemed unjustified, I would say that it comes down to excessive force or over-reaction to a perceived threat. It's quite clear that police officers are granted a lot of leeway by the courts when these things happen, as convictions are pretty rare. Still, I would not like to be in such a situation. Cops get judged pretty harshly by some segments of society - unfairly so, in many cases.

Over-reacting may be more likely to happen if the cop has less years on the force and hasn't served in the Military. In listening to the scanner app, which I did when the shootings occurred in San Bernardino, over-reacting isn't what was happening- they were extremely professional and unless they had been running, none of the officers I heard seemed particularly stressed by what was happening. Under fire, it's normal for the pitch of their voice to rise and waver, but I never heard it. I have seen several confrontations where the police were involved and it was rare for one of them to act like they were nervous or afraid of the danger. I have seen some cops who were pretty PO'd when someone had been hitting them, which I can completely understand.

If you watch the footage from Dallas, you probably noticed that the officers ran TOWARD the sound of gunfire, rather than away- knowing the risks, that takes balls.

 

[Seth=L]

If you mean the BLM movement, it doesn't appear to be small. It's got wide support at the legislative level, music industry, colleges.

I didn't mean small in terms of influence, but rather size in proportion to population.