Will Brink

Will Brink

Audioholic
Figured this was the area of the forums to post such a Q. If not, let me know more appropriate location.

I know this will be the page I don't get fairy dust and pseudo science BS to such a Q. It seems there's a DAC race, with new super duper improved DACs in a box or unit coming out monthly it seems. I'm unclear how one DAC chip can sound better/different than another if doing it's job.

I can see how they may sound difference once added to the signal chain per topology, filtering, implementation, but if one takes two identical units, and one uses a SABRE DAC chip that's last years super chip compared to this weeks SABRE DAC super chip, what differences in either bench measurements - or more importantly - audible differences?

I suspect the answer is nadda, but figured I'd ask.
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
In your example I go with nadda. The whole dac thing is so overblown.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
agreed, the Difference between the two recent DAC chips is nadda. The key is correctly implemented. One typically poor example is PCs. The problem with them isn't DAC, but the poorly RF isolated analog stage - thus they are typically crap. But if you're asking about DAC as stand-alone units - then the difference is really absolutely nothing.
 
Will Brink

Will Brink

Audioholic
agreed, the Difference between the two recent DAC chips is nadda. The key is correctly implemented. One typically poor example is PCs. The problem with them isn't DAC, but the poorly RF isolated analog stage - thus they are typically crap. But if you're asking about DAC as stand-alone units - then the difference is really absolutely nothing.
That's what I figured. The diminishing return for sound quality for $ must kick in hard where there's no return regardless of $ thrown at it. Precisly were that is I'm not sure, but I'd think above $1k for a dedicated DAC unit, you're paying for build quality, etc.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
That's what I figured. The diminishing return for sound quality for $ must kick in hard where there's no return regardless of $ thrown at it. Precisly were that is I'm not sure, but I'd think above $1k for a dedicated DAC unit, you're paying for build quality, etc.
You didn't say what you want to use the DAC for, but the reviewer below is testing the headphone amps on a number of USB audio interfaces with prices well below $1000.

 
Will Brink

Will Brink

Audioholic
You didn't say what you want to use the DAC for, but the reviewer below is testing the headphone amps on a number of USB audio interfaces with prices well below $1000.

Not looking to get a DAC, just curious due to knew products I have and the ongoing debates on latest greatest DACs, etc. I have heard some using headphone DACs as pre amps and getting great performance and sound.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
You didn't say what you want to use the DAC for, but the reviewer below is testing the headphone amps on a number of USB audio interfaces with prices well below $1000.

Interesting. Never heard about Motu. For that money ($170) seems like a very reasonable purchase.
It's a bit more than I paid for AudioEngine D1 and about 2x than two years ago I got a great deal on Behringer UMC404HD - $80, but I got it mainly to use balanced connections between It and my JBL LSR2325p monitors.
If you still could get UMC404HD for the same money - I'd say - jump on it, especially if one uses pro monitors or other speakers with balanced inputs.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Not looking to get a DAC, just curious due to knew products I have and the ongoing debates on latest greatest DACs, etc. I have heard some using headphone DACs as pre amps and getting great performance and sound.
What you heading on dedicated DACs is a decent headphone amp, especially noticeable on headphones with higher impedance (over 250ohm). Not the DAC chip itself.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
Interesting. Never heard about Motu. For that money ($170) seems like a very reasonable purchase.
It's a bit more than I paid for AudioEngine D1 and about 2x than two years ago I got a great deal on Behringer UMC404HD - $80, but I got it mainly to use balanced connections between It and my JBL LSR2325p monitors.
If you still could get UMC404HD for the same money - I'd say - jump on it, especially if one uses pro monitors or other speakers with balanced inputs.
I've got the MOTU M2 that I use as a headphone amp as well as for my microphone I use. It's a very nice device, so far. There is also a M4 version that as more two more inputs and outputs.

My headphones are Beyerdynamic DT-880 Edition 250 Ohms and the MOTU M2 drives more than loud enough for me.
 
Joe B

Joe B

Audioholic Chief
Figured this was the area of the forums to post such a Q. If not, let me know more appropriate location.

I know this will be the page I don't get fairy dust and pseudo science BS to such a Q. It seems there's a DAC race, with new super duper improved DACs in a box or unit coming out monthly it seems. I'm unclear how one DAC chip can sound better/different than another if doing it's job.

I can see how they may sound difference once added to the signal chain per topology, filtering, implementation, but if one takes two identical units, and one uses a SABRE DAC chip that's last years super chip compared to this weeks SABRE DAC super chip, what differences in either bench measurements - or more importantly - audible differences?

I suspect the answer is nadda, but figured I'd ask.
In your example I go with nadda. The whole dac thing is so overblown.
I agree with @lovinthehd, given the scenario you gave.
That said, I am really interested in DAC's which do not use a standard chip for D/A conversion. Chord's FPGA based technology and dCS's Ring DAC technology are very interesting.
My eyes are on a Chord Hugo TT2 and M Scaler for my next 2 channel/headphone based system, which I don't dare purchase until the house is remodeled. I've got my wife's blessings, but I know things will go much smoother if she has her new kitchen before I start converting our extra bedroom into my new listening room.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
I agree with @lovinthehd, given the scenario you gave.
That said, I am really interested in DAC's which do not use a standard chip for D/A conversion. Chord's FPGA based technology and dCS's Ring DAC technology are very interesting.
My eyes are on a Chord Hugo TT2 and M Scaler for my next 2 channel/headphone based system, which I don't dare purchase until the house is remodeled. I've got my wife's blessings, but I know things will go much smoother if she has her new kitchen before I start converting our extra bedroom into my new listening room.
Have you ever tried getting some acoustic panels into the living room past your wife? :D
 
Joe B

Joe B

Audioholic Chief
^^^
No, that would never fly. That's one of the reasons why I purchased my Anthem AVR, to be able to tame the room with their ARC room correction, which works.
 
pcosmic

pcosmic

Senior Audioholic
R2R dacs are a different animal. With DS chip dacs, the higher price goes with additional features, better power/isolation, better output stages, etc. The chip itself doesn't say too much about how it is gonna sound. Having said that, diminishing returns hit like a brick sht wall on DS and R2R dacs right around a 1000 bucks as of 2020/21. You might as well light up cigars with 100 dollar bills than toss it at a 5k DAC. I own a 3000ish dollar dac and have audited dacs upto 15k (fcking unbelievable snakes spewing oil everywhere!).
 
Will Brink

Will Brink

Audioholic
R2R dacs are a different animal. With DS chip dacs, the higher price goes with additional features, better power/isolation, better output stages, etc. The chip itself doesn't say too much about how it is gonna sound. Having said that, diminishing returns hit like a brick sht wall on DS and R2R dacs right around a 1000 bucks as of 2020/21. You might as well light up cigars with 100 dollar bills than toss it at a 5k DAC. I own a 3000ish dollar dac and have audited dacs upto 15k (fcking unbelievable snakes spewing oil everywhere!).
That's the $ I come to where you go from diminishing return -> no return. At least audibly speaking.
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
All I know for sure is the DAC in my new Parasound P6 is delivering more detail at low volume than my 20 year old Sony Pre-Pro did. That's a fact, other impressions about it all might just be perceptions.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
^^^
No, that would never fly. That's one of the reasons why I purchased my Anthem AVR, to be able to tame the room with their ARC room correction, which works.
It ain't easy, I can tell you :eek:
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
After $500-$600 mark you are getting into the realm of transparency. What you should be buying yourself above this amount is feature set.
 

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