Current competition v. Sunfire HRS-12

[sven1olaf]

Ryan,

Thanks for the detail!

I have sub 1 in the 2.5 position, and sub 2 in a 4.5 (moved toward the front of the, up, from 4) and am having really nice results.

I'm going to have to grab new graphs to share. But phase, level, and delay adjustments may be all I need... we'll see what Rew tells me.

The base is far less boomy, more consistent and sounds better loud. Much better.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I would always recommend the subwoofer crawl! its crude, but works great. My instict is one behind the couch (opposite position 2), and the other to the left side of the room. I've had some issues in my room with corner loading, but if you do the crawl, you should be able to identify pretty easily if the back left corner (position 4) would get boomy/muddy.
You're in good hands, Sven!

Sup, Bill!!! Hope all is well!

Oh, Sven... your last post... I think its generally accepted that you might get a better low end extension with the SVS, and a little better Mid-Bass with the Hsu's... but with all of these subs, you kind of end up splitting hairs. In general, you might have more bang for the buck with HSU, and they are no slouch by all reports. But unless you are going to drive to and from Anaheim, there isn't an easy way to audition those in your home. SVS might be the ticket. Regardless, most of these don't disappoint.
Cheers!

Hey RynoDino!!! We good. Outta town, doing a quick hit n run session. Looks like you have Sven n Olie taken care of lol.

Fwiw, I think an FV25 in the rear corner behind the couch would be awesome. Just sayin. Lol
Jk, I’m out now, done stirring it up.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Ryan,

Thanks for the detail!

I have sub 1 in the 2.5 position, and sub 2 in a 4.5 (moved toward the front of the, up, from 4) and am having really nice results.

I'm going to have to grab new graphs to share. But phase, level, and delay adjustments may be all I need... we'll see what Rew tells me.

The base is far less boomy, more consistent and sounds better loud. Much better.

 

[sven1olaf]

Ok, so investigating the sunfiresast night (pure procrastination of a master's project I'm working on), I found out that the hrs-12's are only rated up to 100hz! This may well be a key issue for true integration being so close to the 80hz xover point regarded as the standard starting point for capable speakers.

 

[sven1olaf]

Hey RynoDino!!! We good. Outta town, doing a quick hit n run session. Looks like you have Sven n Olie taken care of lol.

Fwiw, I think an FV25 in the rear corner behind the couch would be awesome. Just sayin. Lol
Jk, I’m out now, done stirring it up.

Don't despair Bill! I'm going to get new subs.

Dual SB3k's seems the perfect combination of specs, customer service, and DSP.

 

[ryanosaur]

Ok, so investigating the sunfiresast night (pure procrastination of a master's project I'm working on), I found out that the hrs-12's are only rated up to 100hz! This may well be a key issue for true integration being so close to the 80hz xover point regarded as the standard starting point for capable speakers.

More than anything here, you will also be losing the upper end of LFE content from any movies/LFE encoded media. LFE is up to 120 Hz. Mind, that 20Hz is only 1/5 of an octave, but still.
I'm uncertain as to how that would affect your normal XO at 80Hz for stereo or other multi-channel listening, I can't believe that the sub stops at 100Hz, rather I suspect it has a LPF at 100Hz. Whether its rolling off at 12, 18 or 24dB per octave is another story.
If you feel like experimenting, unplug your mains... just leaving your subs to play with no XO set in your AVR... and run a 100Hz, 120Hz, and 150Hz test tone through your system. See what those little boxes give you.

 

[sven1olaf]

More than anything here, you will also be losing the upper end of LFE content from any movies/LFE encoded media. LFE is up to 120 Hz. Mind, that 20Hz is only 1/5 of an octave, but still.
I'm uncertain as to how that would affect your normal XO at 80Hz for stereo or other multi-channel listening, I can't believe that the sub stops at 100Hz, rather I suspect it has a LPF at 100Hz. Whether its rolling off at 12, 18 or 24dB per octave is another story.
If you feel like experimenting, unplug your mains... just leaving your subs to play with no XO set in your AVR... and run a 100Hz, 120Hz, and 150Hz test tone through your system. See what those little boxes give you.

I was messing around last night with the placement.

Interesting finding: with the subs in 4.5 and 2.5 positions (I'll add a pic), I have to trim DOWN both of the subs per Audyssey, prior to beginning the cal. Then Aud boosts the gain in the AVR by 0.5 and 1.5 dB respectively. The response and phasing is spot on as a result, but just seemed odd. Also, now the little sunfires are standing up tall and rattling the crap out of the back left wall (with large bay window in it). I actually moved the sub gains down 1.5 dB last night while re-watching Passengers in DTS Master (holy bass response batman!), and was still getting some rattling. It seems like a resonance down low, near the 20hz range. Further testing with REW will be needed.

So, I already know the answer, but have to ask. Do any of you have a crazy ninja navy trick to stop in wall rattling, especially with windows?

 

[lovinthehd]

Don't have any rattling windows but I'd whip out my favorite anti-rattle tool....museum putty. Great behind pics and under stuff on shelves...

 

[ryanosaur]

I was messing around last night with the placement.

Interesting finding: with the subs in 4.5 and 2.5 positions (I'll add a pic), I have to trim DOWN both of the subs per Audyssey, prior to beginning the cal. Then Aud boosts the gain in the AVR by 0.5 and 1.5 dB respectively. The response and phasing is spot on as a result, but just seemed odd. Also, now the little sunfires are standing up tall and rattling the crap out of the back left wall (with large bay window in it). I actually moved the sub gains down 1.5 dB last night while re-watching Passengers in DTS Master (holy bass response batman!), and was still getting some rattling. It seems like a resonance down low, near the 20hz range. Further testing with REW will be needed.

So, I already know the answer, but have to ask. Do any of you have a crazy ninja navy trick to stop in wall rattling, especially with windows?

Check some of the anti vibration pads... two layers of rubber with cork (or a blue material) in between, for under the subs.
I hesitantly recommend (... hesitant cos of the cost) the soundpath isolation feet from svs. $50 per four pack, but they flipping work! I have a trampoline floorboard and those helped cut a significant amount of structural vibration.

 

[lovinthehd]

Or just put a couple towels underneath til you determine if it's the sub interface with the floor or not....then spend on fancy foam/feet if you want (but I still wouldn't recommend unless the aesthetic particularly appeals to you, many other ways to deal with that if it's the issue).

 

[sven1olaf]

I've got the subs sitting on these auralex subdude II's. I got those when I had the subs in the cubbies and they work great!

I didn't get a chance to mess around with testing tonight. But rattle season is open.

 

[lovinthehd]

I've got the subs sitting on these auralex subdude II's. I got those when I had the subs in the cubbies and they work great!

I didn't get a chance to mess around with testing tonight. But rattle season is open.

Let us know how it goes...

 

[sven1olaf]

I got the SB3k's today. Man, svs customer service is out of this world!!! So helpful, friendly, knowledgeable...the model.

The subs are everything I was hoping for. Huge when they need to be, precise always, and integration that I couldn't get from my sunfires.

I was nervous that they wouldn't be that much better than the sealed 12's I had, but I was very wrong. These things blow them away. Where the sunfires struggled, the SB3k's play happily.

I'm going to leave the peq alone until I have a better understanding of how they sound unaltered. But after a couple weeks I'm sure I'm going to dig in.

Get this, no rattles!?!

I need to find some time to set up and mess with REW. I'll post the graphs when I do.

Here's some pics.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Awesome!!! Looks great in there. I’m glad they’re delivering as expected. Love when that happens.

 

[ryanosaur]

Rattles like that spell distortion.
Glad those are making you happy! Good woofs are an amazing thing.
In fact... I think I need to bump something deep. Hmmm...

 

[lovinthehd]

Curious, what rattled before that doesn't now?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

If I had to guess it was a nonlinear frequency response spike built in to the sunfires and made worse by placement.
Have you torture tested those babies yet?

 

[sven1olaf]

Yeah, it was definitely a low (sub 20hz) frequency issue with the sunfires.

No issues with the 3k's. They just perform well. Period.

No torture test yet, though one of them was getting a slight internal rattle, so if I do...it'll be that one.

I'm thinking about using the other one for a 2 channel setup in the family room.

 

[sven1olaf]

I've got the house to myself on saturday, so I'm going to try to dial in the 3k's with some sweet sweet REW action.

I'm interested to compare the corrected Audyssey waveform versus real-world measurements.