Current best DIY subwoofer design?

[Haoleb]

Soo.. Here's the deal. A few years ago I built a pair of the Kappa perfect subs and loved them. But I had to sell due to a move so some lucky guy got himself a pair of subs, a dcx and two rmx1450 amps for a song.

Here's my problem. I am getting the itch for another pair of subs! I really have not kept up on the forums much in the past few years. I would build another set of the kappa's but of course the driver is no longer really available except used. Don't really want to go that route. I always told myself If I built another pair of subs I would base it on the 12 or 13.5 W7 driver but alas that winning lottery ticket has eluded me. I need something a little more reasonable. What is currently the top choice design/driver these days?

Box size doesn't much matter to me. I want depth and available SPL. Power requirements.... I will probably pick up another pair of used QSC or Yamaha's or something. Also I will likely get another DCX to use as a crossover/EQ unless something better has come along.

I see parts express has this ultimax driver they are selling now. Any good? Most of the google searches turn up old threads with designs using drivers that you can't find anymore.

 

[slipperybidness]

Here's some food for thought:
http://rythmikaudio.com/diy.html

I own a F15HP, but I bought mine completed.

Personally, I've been eyeballing those PE Ultimax and/or Titanics.

Also, I think trying a DIY tube sub design would be slick.

The disclaimer: I'm not a DIY sub guy (as of yet anyway).

 

[crossedover]

I'd go with a couple of stereo integrity 18" s in. A sealed box.

 

[its phillip]

Depends on your goals. If you want a full bandwidth system, multiple sealed 18s with a lot of power are what you want

Check out some driver/system tests on www.data-bass.com

 

[Nestor]

Since you mentioned size not being an issue, consider horns, either Bill Fitzmaurice THT or Lil Mike's F20.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Haoleb]

I guess I should say I do have a few constraints.. Size.. I can go big but not HUGE. Those Kappa subs were about 24x24x25. I am thinking 12-15" driver. Before I had the subs crossed at 63hz or somewhere thereabout. My main speakers are PSB Stratus goldi which have decent bass so I do not plan on crossing them very high. I will look into some of these options. It seems like the DIY subwoofer buzz that was going on a few years ago has kind of died down. The more I look at these ultimax drivers though I do think these will be a contender for my driver choice. I do really like the look of them and the price is right.

 

[crossedover]

I guess I should say I do have a few constraints.. Size.. I can go big but not HUGE. Those Kappa subs were about 24x24x25. I am thinking 12-15" driver. Before I had the subs crossed at 63hz or somewhere thereabout. My main speakers are PSB Stratus goldi which have decent bass so I do not plan on crossing them very high. I will look into some of these options. It seems like the DIY subwoofer buzz that was going on a few years ago has kind of died down. The more I look at these ultimax drivers though I do think these will be a contender for my driver choice. I do really like the look of them and the price is right.

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=110
http://stereointegrity.com/product/hst18-18-subwoofer/

 

[ARES24]

I really like mine. (http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/new-sub-build.84382/)

I later talked to TLS about the ultimax drivers, he didn't seem too enthused about them.

 

[Haoleb]

I really like mine. (http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/new-sub-build.84382/)

I later talked to TLS about the ultimax drivers, he didn't seem too enthused about them.

Nice build. This is something like what I am looking for as far as driver price/box size/design goes. Although I think I do want to stick with a smaller driver. The stereo integrity drivers seem to get great reviews but are just out of what I can spend on the drivers. I am looking at drivers in the $200 price range. Music is my main priority- but i would probably take something that will not bottom over a little better SQ as I do like to push it sometimes. I downloaded winISD to start playing with some numbers and drivers.

 

[ARES24]

The reason that I used the driver that I did was due to recommendation. I was wanted to use the sub for HT as well as music, this driver is very musical and can be tuned down to the low 20's. A smaller driver (ported) will make the enclosure smaller but limit your lower end.
I'll be honest, whenever I am thinking about subs I just message TLS with specific questions . If you ask nicely (and if he comes around) he might spec out a unit for you.
FYI The Dayton 15" HO is in your budget

I don't mean to push, I just like mine.... A lot.

 

[TLS Guy]

If you want a smaller driver, I think a competent sub could be built around this driver.

If you want I will work up an optimal design. It seems to have T/S parameters in an encouraging range. My most important piece of advice is to avoid high Qts drivers like the plague.

 

[Haoleb]

I am not completely opposed to an 18" driver but you just do not really see people with music in mind going that big. Usually its the HT guys going for the extreme low end. I would like flat response down to 20hz or lower ideally though. As I said I had a pair of the kappa perfects before setup in stereo configuration and I am looking to get back that performance plus some extra if it's there. I zeroed in on that 15 ultimax because it seemed to be the best overall when directly comparing to others with published specs.. (at least the ones people seem to look for) for example the Qts of that driver is lower than the 12 or the 18 ultimax. compared to the HO 18 and 15 it has a higher Qts but lower Qms, I also like the look of it and it seems pretty durable compared to the HO or HF drivers... hitting it with a screwdriver is a pretty convincing demonstration... Not that I plan on doing that. And 15" seemed like a happy medium for low end output and not being quite as imposing as dual 18" drivers

Looking at specs and modeling does not make me confident enough in any one driver or design to spend the money to build it. I really do not have much experience in speaker design. I was pretty skeptical building those kappa's until I was finished and got to hear and compare them.

So far the only thing solid in my plan is getting the DCX2496le (don't want or need the extra digital input) And two QSC RMX1450a amplifiers. One for each sub run in bridged configuration. I know there are cheaper options for amps but I had the EP2500 and compared to the QSC it was simply not built as well. And I prefer the "old school" design of the amp vs something like an inuke

 

[TLS Guy]

For nothing better to do, I have been modelling drivers for you.

This driver in your price range models well. It is unusual in that the extended bass alignment models best, and there is still excellent acoustic output down to 20 Hz.

If you want a driver around 12" this is the one. It still takes a cabinet a little over 5 cu.ft by the time you have allowed for driver port and bracing.

However as with large cabinets, you get an efficient bass system with good output with sane amp power.

My researches have brought me to the conclusion that sealed units are expensive and not good unless you use a lot of them. Power claims and spl. are grossly inflated by manufacturers.

As I have always known, there is no substitute for enclosure size when it comes to bass systems.

 

[Haoleb]

Thanks Mark. You know, I did not really even consider the titanic series but I am very pleased to see that particular driver is made in USA which is nice selling point for me. Of course this addition to my options list does not make any decision easy! I know there are so many good design and options available its very hard to just pick one and run with it. Would something like this have an advantage over the other popular drivers for SQ? (ultimax 18/15 ,SI HT18, HO or HF 18/15)

I know you have attached the model graphs but for me that is a bit like judging how good a car will drive by looking at the spec sheet.

 

[TLS Guy]

On playing with this further, you can shave the box size without significant sacrifice in performance. Please

Thanks Mark. You know, I did not really even consider the titanic series but I am very pleased to see that particular driver is made in USA which is nice selling point for me. Of course this addition to my options list does not make any decision easy! I know there are so many good design and options available its very hard to just pick one and run with it. Would something like this have an advantage over the other popular drivers for SQ? (ultimax 18/15 ,SI HT18, HO or HF 18/15)

I know you have attached the model graphs but for me that is a bit like judging how good a car will drive by looking at the spec sheet.

With a sub those graphs are infinitely better than judging how a car will drive from a spec sheet. In fact it pretty much tells you all you need to know.

I designed that sub to your specification, driver size and price mainly.

The Ultramax drivers in my view will make a poor ported sub, and so so sealed subs.

However I'm really leaning away from sealed designs. A loudspeaker cone is a dreadfully inefficient coupler to the air. A moving coil loudspeaker for bass duty really does need the help of an acoustic transformer. Without that, it leads to an inelegant forcing. I think the downsides of this are getting better and better understood. The only advantage is small cabinet size, after that it is really all down.

Now I know a standard reflex enclosure is resonant. However with good design choices that can be effectively disguised, and bass can be very tight. If you can't tolerate that, then we are talking complex TLs and horns. IB is not really practical and again there is no acoustic transformer, which I believe is key to powerful effortless bass.

The sub I designed for Ares, I knew he would be pleased with. It has enormous acoustic output, and can produce 118db at 20 Hz with a sane power drive level. So in effect you would NEVER drive it that hard. So it has bags of reserve to give you tight effortless bass with authority. So if you want a very good sub indeed at very reasonable cost that is what I would recommend. I attach the file.

I also have a 15 driver on file which I will include. It my view it takes too large a box to be worth it.

If it were me I would build the 18'' design, but if you want something more modest then the design I sent you last night will fit the bill.

The 18" build will stun you though, and leave a big smile on your face!

 

[GO-NAD!]

Here's another possibility:

http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=SDX12 Promo

At $519 for a pair, it's a bit above your stated budget, but I'm very happy with mine. I went the PR route, as they appear need a rather large vent. Something to consider...

 

[Haoleb]

Well thank you everyone for the help. I have been reading many threads and online builds and I think that this 18" Dayton HO driver will end up being my final choice in the box Mark has spec'd. I never really thought I would go for something as large as an 18" driver but it seems almost silly to spend nearly the same amount of money and get a 12" It also seems like most of the folks using this driver have gone the sealed route but I am a fan of large slot ported subs... And I don't care for the looks of a sealed box with a huge driver in it.

Now the hard part designing the actual enclosure. And the hardest part of all securing the funds for something like this. Once I finally get started with this project I will do a build thread similar to the one from when I built my Kappa's

 

[TLS Guy]

Well thank you everyone for the help. I have been reading many threads and online builds and I think that this 18" Dayton HO driver will end up being my final choice in the box Mark has spec'd. I never really thought I would go for something as large as an 18" driver but it seems almost silly to spend nearly the same amount of money and get a 12" It also seems like most of the folks using this driver have gone the sealed route but I am a fan of large slot ported subs... And I don't care for the looks of a sealed box with a huge driver in it.

Now the hard part designing the actual enclosure. And the hardest part of all securing the funds for something like this. Once I finally get started with this project I will do a build thread similar to the one from when I built my Kappa's

The T/S parameters of that driver are right in the sweet spot for a stunning vented enclosure. You won't be disappointed with the unit. I'm sure Ares can send you his cutting plans, if you PM him.

 

[weng]

got a 12W7 for a song last year. installed it in a kappa perfect box. moved the 12VQ to a 1.3 cuft sealed cabinet. both subs are powered by an inuke3000, 1 sub per channel. also using a miniDSP as subsonic filter at the moment, no time to tinker and learn REW 12W7 sounded way better than the kappa 12VQ in the kappa designed box. i am itching to put in the 12W7 in a sealed cabinet (like the fathom) and power it using bridged mode of the inuke3000. though not sure if its gonna work as the inuke bridged power is rated at 4 ohms while the the W7 is 3 ohms.

 

[Haoleb]

Well, I am at the stage where I am trying to get a design finalized and get some dimensions jotted down because I am thinking I can start building these subs next week. How critical is it that the internal volume be exact? I am using the volume calculator on HTS website to come up with some initial dimensions but I won't know exactly how I want the bracing to be done until I just start doing it. I am more of a design as I go person than someone who sits down and draws up detailed drawings. I like to feel things and see them in person. I suppose It might be better to go with a little bit bigger box that I can always add more bracing to if needed rather than end up too small? Also, when I built my acoustic panels recently I saved one 2x4 sheet of rockboard 60 incase I needed it. Will that stuff be suitable to put inside the cabinets or should I look at another product such as the rockboard 80 which is better for bass. Or something different entirely?