G

Gazdoug

Audiophyte
hi folks
I could use some help with crossovers. I have denon 3600 amp
Dali spektor 2 fronts
Dali sensor vokal cnter
Dali alteco c1 front heights
cambridge audio minx 22 surrounds
cambridge audio minx 11 rear heights
cambridge audio x200 sub
also considering a new sub
crossover help and suggestions greatly appreciated
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Ninja
What aspect are you stuck on?
80-100Hz are common starting points, Or...
Common suggestions will be to start anywhere from 1/2 to a full octave above the F3 of your speaker. (F3 is the point where the bottom extension roll-off is -3dB.A full octave is a doubling of the frequency, ie 40Hz - 80 Hz is one octave, 80 -160 is one octave.)
Whatever you choose, experiment up and down from there by listening and taking measurements (if you have that option).
Not all speakers will be set the same.
Hope that gets you started!
 
G

Gazdoug

Audiophyte
Thanks mate
I've set f3 to 80hz
Fhieghts to 100 hz
Surounds to 100hz hz
Rheights to 150hz
Sub to 120
Sounds good although some speech can sound hollow at times. Would lowering centre and fronts increase bass?
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Ninja
First, to correct: :)
The F3 is a spec of the speaker... you do not set that.
So using your mains, the Dali Spektor 2 as the example, they are rated ±3dB from 54-26,000 Hz, Thus it is safe to call the F3 of your speaker 54Hz.
Half an octave above your F3 on those is 81Hz, and 108Hz is a full octave. For purposes of experimenting with the XO (crossover), I personally, prefer starting an octave above the F3 where possible, and experimenting from there, so I would choose 110Hz to Cross the Spektor 2 at.
Sounds good although some speech can sound hollow at times. Would lowering centre and fronts increase bass?
I don't think so. Consider that the lowest fundamentals of Male Speech is around 170Hz, IIRC. In theory, raising it may help more, as you are allowing the Speaker itself to focus on the upper frequencies, while you send the lower Freq's to the Subwoofer, which is specialized for reproducing that range.

Now, surprisingly, the Vokal is F3 at 47Hz, lower than your Spektor 2s. You could experiment with starting that as low as 90Hz. But again, going a little higher usually helps with dialog clarity, not lower.

I'm not familiar with the Subs from Cambridge. Generally, getting a good Sub will tremendously help your system.

Where are you at? This will significantly impact the options we can recommend to you. :D

Hope this makes sense!

Cheers!
 
G

Gazdoug

Audiophyte
Thank you very much. I will experiment with some of those crossovers and feedback. I'm going to also upgrade sub to the Dali E9F. Thinking that will help unless you could recommend another to suit my set up?
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Ninja
Thank you very much. I will experiment with some of those crossovers and feedback. I'm going to also upgrade sub to the Dali E9F. Thinking that will help unless you could recommend another to suit my set up?
Again, not knowing where you are, its hard to recommend good subs. I'm in the US. We have many great options. UK, Europe and Australia, for example have much different options.

In general, Subs made by Speaker companies aren't always the best options.

Since you are using Dali, and those are harder to come by in the US... I'm guessing you are a good swim away from here. :p

Holler back with your location and I'll see if I know anything that can help you. :)
 
G

Gazdoug

Audiophyte
Sorry forgot to mention. I'm in Glasgow Scotland.
Current set all fronts to 100hz and surounds to 120. Sounds better but it's a if something still isn't quite right. Again though different channels or films are hit and miss. Some sound excellent and others not so good. I'll keep experimenting. Thanks again for all your advice. I'll get there
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Ninja
XTZ is one brand I've heard good things about on your side of the Pond. Avoid Klipsch or Polk... and most other Subwoofers made by companies that specialize in speakers first. (Though there are a few that do good work.)
SVS, I think is available in the UK, but probably at a premium cost. They are known for their Subs, first.

...
Perhaps @Trell and @Leemix can help out wiith sub recommendations over there, too. :)
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
Sorry forgot to mention. I'm in Glasgow Scotland.
Current set all fronts to 100hz and surounds to 120. Sounds better but it's a if something still isn't quite right. Again though different channels or films are hit and miss. Some sound excellent and others not so good. I'll keep experimenting. Thanks again for all your advice. I'll get there
Sound quality of soundtracks varies, too and a crossover shouldn't have a heck of a lot to do with it.

BK Elec is a UK company that is said to make a good sub.
 
L

Leemix

Senior Audioholic
SVS does have a big presence here in europe so usually decent prices even if not as low as in the US. XTZ also good and worth checking out as @ryanosaur mentioned. Check out local brands like @lovinthehd mention, i dont know those but live in Norway so.
A good sub should fill out a lot, the one you use now is tiny. It may very well be the reason you feel it sounds hollow. Until you find a much better sub it could be worth trying LFE+Main bass setting, its rarely a good thing but might be worth trying in your case in the meantime. It might not be good but doesnt hurt to listen, you are not looking for good measurements atm but fuller sound.
Make sure center is at or pointing at ear level. A carpet on the floor can help a lot if a hard large surface.
Sound quality on different movies and programs vary a lot unfortunatly.
Have you run auto setup/audyssey and tried flat vs. reference modes? Maybe try increasing the sub volume 3dB.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
G

Gazdoug

Audiophyte
Cant thank you all enough.
I'm going to break the bank balance and hunt for new sub once I work around the biggest barrier "wife"
In the denon I've tried all bass management including LFE+main. Played with references also. When I run auto calibration its sets all fronts to 40hz which I felt was way to low and tiny sound echo. Having increased crossover has helped and tweaking the volume on sub also. Also turned phase right down to 0 and LFE on sub to full. From what I've been reading this should be correct. Thanks guys your knowledge has helped me greatly
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Ninja
SVS sells in the UK and that would be one of the top options for subs.

Regarding the center, raising the crossover may help as mentioned. Also you could raise the gain a bit and see if that lifts it up. After that it's most likely the speakers limitation. Is the speaker on a stand or on a console?
 
G

Gazdoug

Audiophyte
Guys I've just purchased the SVS PB1000 sub. What a difference to my whole set up. Looking forward to it running in but sound to everything is night and day. Still playing with it just now now but very impressed. Thanks again
 
L

Leemix

Senior Audioholic
A good quality sub (or 2) makes a lot of difference, often much more than we think so great you got a nice one. Now enjoy :)
 

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