Critique My Setup

[slipperybidness]

OK, here's my rundown. I know it isn't anything as nice or fancy as some of y'all have (jealous), but I'm mostly happy with it. I don't have as much space dedicated as I would like (small home), and some of it I collected before I was as gung-ho into HT as I am now. I have other components and gear laying around that I've used or tested in the past, but this is my current configuration for the living area. In the future, I will definitely work on a 2nd (3rd, 4th ) setup. My ultimate goal when time, space, money allows would be: 1) A great HT setup that also sounds good for music and 2) A great music setup that also sounds good for movies.

What do you think. Where's the weak link (probably the sub but the towers have built in subs), or the lack of surrounds. Be gentle, or at least take a humorous approach rather than a harsh approach.

52" Samsung 1080p LCD TV (I'll get the model# later, it's about 4 yrs old)
Pioneer Elite VSX-82TXS Reciever
Technics SL1210 MK5 Turntable with Shure M97xE cartridge
TWC Atlanta Scientifice Cable Box / DVR
XBOX 360
PS3
Custom built tower PC, 4gig Ram, Win XP, 1+ TB HDD space, connected to TV with HDMI and to Pioneer with digital coax from onboard HD sound chip from Asus MB (I also have the modem and wired/wireless router hidden here so all connections are hardwired)
Speakers: Goldenear Triton 2 Towers for L/R, and Satellite 50C for the center

Let's say you had this setup and had about $2000 for upgrades or to add components, what direction would you take this setup?

Thanks

 

[slipperybidness]

Sorry, forgot to include:

Velodyne VX10 Subwoofer

 

[BMXTRIX]

Is Goldenear a spinoff of Definitive Technology? I can't believe how much it feels like it is and the nearby billing location (Maryland) is extremely unusual if it is not. Anyway, it seems like you really have a solid setup overall.

Not sure the size of your room, but the subwoofer seems like the most lacking by the specifications. 10" and 100 watts of power. That's the weak point IMO.

There are more than a few suggestions for subwoofers you will get and I will throw in my recommendation for the Epik subs as I like sealed enclosures a lot and think they clean up the bass sound giving punchy accurate, deep bass. A Epik Empire will run a bit under $1,000. A very solid purchase.

From there, not much jumps out at me. If the TV is an older model Samsung LCD, then a new plasma is always nice. Not sure your viewing distance, but at 12' I would go with at LEAST a 59" or larger display. The Samsung PN64 series of plasmas are great. Still, that's a fun upgrade and I would put a good subwoofer ahead of it by a mile.

You aren't exactly hurting overall for decent components, so I really don't have much else which I think you should be upgrading for your setup.

Maybe a really good universal remote?

 

[slipperybidness]

Is Goldenear a spinoff of Definitive Technology? I can't believe how much it feels like it is and the nearby billing location (Maryland) is extremely unusual if it is not. Anyway, it seems like you really have a solid setup overall.

Not sure the size of your room, but the subwoofer seems like the most lacking by the specifications. 10" and 100 watts of power. That's the weak point IMO.

There are more than a few suggestions for subwoofers you will get and I will throw in my recommendation for the Epik subs as I like sealed enclosures a lot and think they clean up the bass sound giving punchy accurate, deep bass. A Epik Empire will run a bit under $1,000. A very solid purchase.

From there, not much jumps out at me. If the TV is an older model Samsung LCD, then a new plasma is always nice. Not sure your viewing distance, but at 12' I would go with at LEAST a 59" or larger display. The Samsung PN64 series of plasmas are great. Still, that's a fun upgrade and I would put a good subwoofer ahead of it by a mile.

You aren't exactly hurting overall for decent components, so I really don't have much else which I think you should be upgrading for your setup.

Maybe a really good universal remote?

AHA, I forgot the remote: Acoustic Research ARRX15G universal. IMO as good as all but the very top of the line of the Harmony remotes. Probably the best $40 I've put into the setup and great WAF.

Well, Goldenear was started by Sandy (Polk, Def Tech), so that explains a lot. Each tower has built in 1200W amp and 2 subs (appx 5x9 each if I remember correctly), so my poor outboard sub may be a moot point b/c in reality I have 3 subs. My room is large, open floorplan where kitchen/living/entry/dining is all one room+ vaulted ceiling over the living and dining area . A side note: the ribbon tweeters must be heard on these towers.

Yup, I've already been drooling over that Epik Empire, but it's so freaking big. Doesn't bother me, but WAF .

My viewing distance is about 6-7 feet

 

[FirstReflection]

Huh - I didn't know you were such an Epik fan, BMX

I'm the other side of the coin. I'm not saying it to "knock" Epik or BMX - they're certainly not "bad" subs or anything. But I'm not a fan, and I just like to let people know my honest opinion so that they can make up their own mind. It's really easy to get sucked into the hype, especially if you are already leaning a certain way. Very often, folks are looking for some sort of "consensus" about products. There are a lot of Epik fans, and with good reason. But there are also a number of us who don't think they're "teh greaterest thingz EVAR", so I just say "on the other hand" so as to balance the praise a wee bit

While Epik's current two models are both dual opposed driver designs in sealed cabinets, they don't actually output the natural 2nd order roll off of an unaltered sealed design. Instead, Epik uses an EQ boost in the amplifier to make their subs play flatter down to 20Hz-ish (normally, without the EQ boost, they'd start to roll off up around 40Hz with the gradual 12dB/octave slope). Below that, they put in a filter so that the slope is pretty steep - basically the response sort of mimicks what a natural ported design would deliver with flatter response to a lower frequency, and then a steep roll off below that point.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that design choice! But it's just something to be aware of as you are not getting the natural roll off tendancies of a sealed design is all. The other thing that comes with that design choice is higher distortion. In essence, that EQ is just turning up the volume on the low, below 40Hz stuff. And as you crank up the volume, you get higher distortion as the drivers are forced to move more and the amplifier is dumping more power into them.

Epik gives you a lot for your money, there's no doubt about that! But you also have to be aware that there's no magic going on. They're selling dual driver subs for similar or lower prices than single driver subs. They aren't selling them at a loss. They're using a little bit less expensive drivers so that they can keep the price down. Again, nothing wrong with that - they're choosing a design and aiming for a price point and doing what needs to be done to hit it. But you do get a little bit lower quality drivers just due to the price point. Personally, I've found the end result of all of these design choices is that Epik's subs don't sound quite as "clean" as I would like. They've got a little bit of overhang. A little bit of delay in the transient response. A little bit of audible distortion at loud listening levels.

And I stress here, "a little bit". I'm being very picky I just personally prefer what some of the competition offers because I tend to favor "tightness" over extension if I have to make that choice. So I personally like the Rythmik FV12 better than the Legend in the $500 price range. And I personally like an SVSound PB12-NSD or HSU VTF-3 MK4 over the Empire in the under $800 price range. But it's a personal preference and I can understand how other people would prefer the Epik subs in those price ranges. Again, I just offer my opinion as a bit of a "counter balance" because otherwise, it's easy to think that "nothing beats an Epik at ANY price", and I just don't think that's the case. They're good subs, I just don't personally think they're "the greatest". I fell into the Epik hype too at one point and wound up disappointed. Not because the Epik subs I bought were "bad". They weren't. But simply because they weren't quite to MY taste. They had a few nit-picks that I think are worth mentioning, so that's all I'm doing

One of the things that happens a lot on message boards is that people are upgrading from a HTiB sub or a really cheap sub to a "proper" sub for the first time. So of course they're absolutely blown away by what an Epik sub sounds like! They've every right to! But in their excitement, they'll also get carried away and praise it a bit too much, and say things like, "I can't even imagine how any other sub could be any better!" You read something like that and it's hard not to get caught up in the hype!

But if you've been in the home theater game a long time and listened and compared a lot of great subwoofers, then you start to realize that even good subs like Epik's can still be improved upon in some areas, and you might even prefer something else in the same price class.

So no knock here. If the Epik subs float your boat, I have no beef with that! They're not MY cup o' tea. And I don't think they're necessarily the very best choice for EVERYBODY. They're the right choice for some folks though. So it's just a matter of matching a person's taste and their room and their associated equipment to the very best match possible. It might be Epik. It might be something else. But just don't get caught up in the hype

 

[BMXTRIX]

FR - Thanks for the information related to the Epik's... I didn't know that they were doing that with their crossovers.

My first real sub was a Velodyne HGS-10 and now I run a HGS-18 from them. I'm certainly NOT blown away by Epik subs, but I think they sound very good compared to a lot of other stuff I've heard. I installed a couple of Empires and Legends last year and was happy with the results. The point being that there are options, and I really liked reading the AVS Forum shootout of a bunch of different subwoofers. Thought it was one of the best reviews/shootouts I've looked at for a while.

Bottom line, is that there certainly are a number of choices, but overall it is the low end of the system above that seems like the main area that could use improvement. Of course, if the WAF is an issue, then perhaps the money could be used to buy new WAF points.

 

[Seth=L]

The subs in those Goldenear towers should knock the crap out of that Velodyne. Theoretically you could spend $2000 on a sub and still not feel it made much difference. If you carefully chose the subwoofer however, the difference could be tremendous.

 

[zieglj01]

Buy the wife a gift - and work on the sub replacement.

 

[shadyJ]

Great turntable, mediocre sub. Don't know about the speakers except they are pretty highly regarded brand.

 

[slipperybidness]

The subs in those Goldenear towers should knock the crap out of that Velodyne. Theoretically you could spend $2000 on a sub and still not feel it made much difference. If you carefully chose the subwoofer however, the difference could be tremendous.

Yup, nobody seems to be paying attention to this. Mostly I keep the knob on these at about 3-5 oclock! I've got the low end.

 

[GoFastr]

Audio stuff looks great.

I mean if you just have to start spending that $2k, here's a small start while you're deciphering if you need a sub or not.

Maybe look at a new AVR with a LAN connection so you can stream your music. Also maybe upgrade the PC to Windows 7 in order to get MediaCenter and newer functionality.

 

[FirstReflection]

Yeah, sorry, I kind of didn't address the original question at all, did I?

So you're saying this is a fairly small house with not as much space dedicated to your "theater" as you would like. But the space you've allocated is part of an open "great room", so it's basically taking up a fairly large chunk of your house.

Your TV is fine. I mean, you can always upgrade a television. And if you want 3D, then that's something. But I'm guessing you would have mentioned that, or not even asked if 3D was a huge priority to you, so I don't think the TV needs an upgrade right now

You've got a nice receiver as well. No real need to upgrade there. Again, you can always upgrade a receiver. There's always some new-fangled processing mode or something being thrown in every year. But again, if that were super important to you, you probably wouldn't even be asking!

You do have a full set of pre-outs on that receiver. It's never a bad idea to get a really nice, solid external amp for your speakers Emotiva and Outlaw always come to mind just for sheer bang-for-your-buck amplification. I wouldn't say you're hurting for an amp though. Your receiver is no slouch. You'd gain some extra headroom, maybe get a touch lower distortion when you turn things up loud if you got an external amp. But nothing life changing.

Good turn table. Game consoles obviously can't be upgraded until the next generation comes out. I'm guessing you're kinda locked into your DVR based on your cable provider.

The HTPC, now there's an interesting option! But I'll save that for later so I can talk about your speakers first.

I'll be honest, I don't know anything about the sound of your Goldenear Triton 2 towers. But if you're happy with their sound and you like the match that your Satellite 50C is giving you as a center speaker, then I've honestly no idea whether $2000 for some new speakers would be a big upgrade or not. Certainly, you might want to consider adding some surround speakers though. That's a definite candidate.

The other major audio upgrade - other than getting all new speakers - would be acoustic treatments. I'd recommend that you start by getting yourself some nice measurement gear so that you can properly measure the sort of frequency response that you're getting from your speakers at your listening position. Grab this Dayton EMM-6 measurement microphone. It'll come with a serial number. Plug that serial number in over at Dayton's website and you'll get a calibration file for that specific microphone that you bought! Superb value and pretty darn accurate mic for under $50! Next, you'll need a USB pre-amp with phantom power so that you can plug that EMM-6 mic into your computer. This ART USB DUAL PRE does the trick nicely for $100 and passes along a nice, linear, unaltered signal from the mic. You'll need an XLR cable to plug the mic into the pre amp. And you'll need a USB-A to USB-B cable to plug the pre amp into your computer. You'll also want a microphone stand to hold the mic perfectly in place for measurements. I'd recommend getting one with a boom so that you can put the stand behind your seat and then use the boom to lower the mic into position exactly where your head would normally be Then get yourself the Room EQ Wizard (REW) software for FREE. Read up or ask the REW community and you'll be on your way to getting some really nice, quite accurate measurements of your sound system's performance in your room! You'll be able to see exactly how those built-in subs in your Goldenear towers are performing. And you can try things out with your Velodyne sub running too to see how that affects the frequency response at your seat. Knowledge is power. So it's a great idea to spend not even $200 to really be able to measure and see what's going on in your room!

If you find that you've got some bad cancellations or some reverb/echoes in your listening space, consider buying some passive room treatments. I like GiK Acoustics and Acoustimac for inexpensive, good looking, effective passive room treatments. If the significant other won't stand for large, plain rectangles hangin on the walls, consider paying a bit extra for the various "Art" or printed panels that both GiK and Acoustimac offer. You can literally get any image you like printed on the panel. So if the SO is ok with posters or paintings, you can double that up with some acoustic benefit as well and you'll both be happy!

Another thing to consider is decoupling. Do you find that you can hear the bass from your speakers playing in other rooms of the house, even when the higher frequencies are very quiet or inaudible? One of the main reasons we can so often hear the bass thumping away is because it actually travels in the structure of your house, not just through the air. Your speakers and subwoofer physically shake when they play. If they are in direct contact with the floor, the floor will also shake in sympathy. The floor shakes the walls, the walls shake the ceiling, and before you know it, your whole house is no carrying the bass frequencies through its structure.

Decoupling is nothing more than putting a "shock absorber" in between those shaking speakers and subwoofers and your floor or the surface on which the speakers sit. I like Auralex and their SubDude, GRAMMA and Great GRAMMA isolation risers for decoupling tower speakers and subwoofers. They're all the same thing, just different sizes. They go for about $50 each. Elemental Designs also sells decoupling pads of various sizes for similar sorts of prices.

So those are some ways you could potentially improve your sound without replacing your speakers.

As for the HTPC, you could certainly consider an upgrade there. What you might really want to look at though is adding some Network Attached Storage. Hard drives are expensive right now due to the flooding that wiped out a lot of hard drive production last year in Asia. So right this minute maybe isn't the best time to build a big NAS array. But having all of your data available to any computer in your house through one central NAS is pretty neat, let me tell you I've ripped my entire Blu-ray and HD DVD collection to my NAS and I absolutely love it. I just run Windows 7 with the included Windows Media Center. I use AcrSoft TotalMedia Theatre 5 for playback (mainly due to it being the only current software that still supports HD DVD!) and MyMovies for the free metadata and organization. Some folks prefer MediaBrowser for that. I like MyMovies because I'm using actual discs rather than MKVs or downloaded movie files. For the ripping, I use SlySoft's AnyDVD HD. I just make straight 1:1 ISO copies, so I use SlySoft's free Virtual Clone Drive to mount the ISO image files. Sounds like a lot of software, but it's actually pretty simple

I run some very easy to make Core i3-2100 based mini-ITX HTPCs...3 of them, plus I have my laptop. 4GB of RAM and an LGA1155 socket mini-ITX mobo and I'm all set for 3D playback, HD audio playback and perfect 1080p picture - all pulling files off my 24TB of NAS. Since all my file storage is on the NAS, I just use 60GB solid state drives in the HTPCs for faster boot up and loading. It works great, it's not expensive, and I love the small, quiet form factor of the mini-ITX platform so I'm quite pleased with it. No gaming on these PCs though

Hope that helps!

 

[FirstReflection]

Found a nice Sound & Vision review of your Goldenear Triton 2 towers

Look to be some DARN nice speakers! I definitely don't see $2000 being any sort of speaker upgrade!

Pretty impressive bass performance from the built in subs, but there's still about a very steep drop off below about 30Hz, at least according to the measurements. For the vast majority of music, a separate sub isn't going to get you a whole lot more. But for movies and some types of music, genuine extension right down to 20Hz or lower might be something you'd want to add to your system at some point by adding a really great, powerful separate subwoofer or subwoofers

 

[bikdav]

Your PC stole the show from my standpoint. You are all set to listen to radio and perhaps watch TV from almost anywhere in the world.

 

[timoteo]

YES room treatments are always a great buy. Most people dont realize how much their room can kill the sound. Even highend speakers can sound horrible in a bad room. 10% of a systems budget should go to treatments...minimum.

Ive sat & listened to the TritonIIs hooked up to some nice Classe equip. Those ribbons sound beautiful. For an MSRP of $2500 they were very impressive. You have a great set of towers. Though they have the subs in them, often the placement of the towers can be a bad location for the sub/s. You may or may not benefit from a new sub. Add something like a PB13Ultra with your budget though, & ill guarantee youll get a new appreciation for true extension!!

But since your happy for now with the bass then id be looking into treatments (if the lady approves). Yes an amp is always a good buy but what are your volume habits? Are you pushing the amps in your receiver? If not then an amp may not get you much.

Id say either treatments or a PB13 Ultra.

 

[cvcgolf]

Oppo Bluray player..