Couple questions about Yamaha RX-A3060

[Hasan Alnajdi]

Not sure exactly what you need help with, though I've seen that article before.

Here are some articles that might help as far as your subwoofer questions.

Forget about it then.. thanks for the link

 

[Pogre]

Forget about it then.. thanks for the link

No, really. I'm just unsure what you meant in your question. I have a grasp on reading those charts now and might be able to clear something up for you.

As far as what to look for in a sub, depends on what you want.

 

[lovinthehd]

Hey guys.. I am sorry to repeat the question but did any of you was able to read this? I'd appreciate it if you can help me understand upper/lower limits.. Also, if I'm not bothering you much do you have a good read for subwoofers and its most important specs?

Missed that post before. It's not a thorough article on speaker measurements, and while you can read something as thorough on the subject generally as Floyd Toole's book, you can try various articles right here on AH, try this search

A subwoofer is a speaker, just operating in a lower frequency range and the effects of the room are different below what's referred to as the Schroeder frequency, try this article (and at the end of the article use the link to part 2).

 

[Hasan Alnajdi]

No, really. I'm just unsure what you meant in your question. I have a grasp on reading those charts now and might be able to clear something up for you.

As far as what to look for in a sub, depends on what you want.

You know.. today I played my first atmos file and it was amazing!!! Forget about the subs the roof on the floor beneath me was shaking!! It even made me reconsider buying a new set for what I heard was incredible.. except it was a bad movie.. I am really wondering what a better sub might do to the place..

Regarding the article I just wanted to make sure it was accurate and not misleading.. another thing is that I don't understand the upper and lower limit specs.. what are they exactly?

 

[lovinthehd]

You mean the +/- 3dB spec we like to see for speaker response range? Or?

ps Some fine sound work has been done in the budget film area....

 

[Hasan Alnajdi]

Missed that post before. It's not a thorough article on speaker measurements, and while you can read something as thorough on the subject generally as Floyd Toole's book, you can try various articles right here on AH, try this search

A subwoofer is a speaker, just operating in a lower frequency range and the effects of the room are different below what's referred to as the Schroeder frequency, try this article (and at the end of the article use the link to part 2).

Thank you a lot

 

[Hasan Alnajdi]

You mean the +/- 3dB spec we like to see for speaker response range? Or?

ps Some fine sound work has been done in the budget film area....

In polk audio site.. reading the specs it mentions total frequency response then upper -3 db limit = value
and the same for the lower
What does that tell?

 

[lovinthehd]

IIRC Polk often vaguely refers to the whole range the speaker is capable of but without knowing the +/- range it can be somewhat meaningless. If the lower response of a sub is vaguely referred to as 20Hz but if in reality is it is -10dB down (f10), or perhaps even worse, at 20hz, that is quite a bit different than a spec at the -3dB point (f3). Some speaker companies do this to basically fool you, a specification of response without the definition is something to be questioned or avoided....

If you'd like to see actual 3rd party measurements of various subs and sub related info a good place is Josh Ricci's site

 

[Hasan Alnajdi]

IIRC Polk often vaguely refers to the whole range the speaker is capable of but without knowing the +/- range it can be somewhat meaningless. If the lower response of a sub is vaguely referred to as 20Hz but if in reality is it is -10dB down (f10), or perhaps even worse, at 20hz, that is quite a bit different than a spec at the -3dB point (f3). Some speaker companies do this to basically fool you, a specification of response without the definition is something to be questioned or avoided....

If you'd like to see actual 3rd party measurements of various subs and sub related info a good place is Josh Ricci's site

Got it.. thank you my friend

 

[lovinthehd]

Got it.. thank you my friend

Keep in mind a measurement of frequency response is but one indicator, albeit a fairly important one. Like that Polk guy's article, it doesn't directly relate to sound qualities, more it's capable range. A speaker that rolls off a few dB at the upper end wouldn't be nearly as noticeable as a sub's capability at 20hz vs 30hz (with the right material of course, for most music this wouldn't matter much).

 

[Hasan Alnajdi]

Keep in mind a measurement of frequency response is but one indicator, albeit a fairly important one. Like that Polk guy's article, it doesn't directly relate to sound qualities, more it's capable range. A speaker that rolls off a few dB at the upper end wouldn't be nearly as noticeable as a sub's capability at 20hz vs 30hz (with the right material of course, for most music this wouldn't matter much).

Let me read the links you guys sent and then we'll continue.. appreciate the help

 

[Hasan Alnajdi]

Keep in mind a measurement of frequency response is but one indicator, albeit a fairly important one. Like that Polk guy's article, it doesn't directly relate to sound qualities, more it's capable range. A speaker that rolls off a few dB at the upper end wouldn't be nearly as noticeable as a sub's capability at 20hz vs 30hz (with the right material of course, for most music this wouldn't matter much).

This below specs is for my subs
Total Frequency Response: 32Hz-225Hz
Lower -3dB Limit: 34 Hz

When they say lower -3db limit : 34 hz.. do they mean the sub can go as deep as 34 hz within -3db or something else? Or maybe they mean +-3db?

 

[Hasan Alnajdi]

No, really. I'm just unsure what you meant in your question. I have a grasp on reading those charts now and might be able to clear something up for you.

As far as what to look for in a sub, depends on what you want.

I'm merely trying to figure out what are the most important specs to consider when it comes to choosing a sub.. just like impedance and sensitivity for speakers

 

[Pogre]

This below specs is for my subs
Total Frequency Response: 32Hz-225Hz
Lower -3dB Limit: 34 Hz

When they say lower -3db limit : 34 hz.. do they mean the sub can go as deep as 34 hz within -3db or something else? Or maybe they mean +-3db?

They mean your sub drops 3db at 34hz. It probably continues to drop more drastically below that.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

They mean your sub drops 3db at 34hz. It probably continues to drop more drastically below that.

Yes. In this case it would have. In this case the sub is designed to play flat (anechoic) to 35(can't see the post). The -3db decibel point is where the roll off slope is at -3db and the subwoofer loses meaningful output below. Generically speaking, ported subs roll off at a rate of 24 db per octave(of descending frequency). That protects the driver from unloading and bottoming out below the tuning point, among other things. Fwiw sealed roll off at 24 db per octave.

In this picture follow to the left, and as the frequency drops, you can see the output does too. There is a calculable slope that it follows to the point of no useable output from the -3 point and below. Now I must make some coffee as to be able to put my words in better order...

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

In polk audio site.. reading the specs it mentions total frequency response then upper -3 db limit = value
and the same for the lower
What does that tell?

We'll use this pic to look at upper and lower-3. As the ends taper down, you can imagine where -3, -6 etc is. Iirc, 3 decibels is where humans discern a difference in loudness. So when they say +/-3db across the frequency range of a speaker, that means from its lowest to highest frequency response, it plays from the baseline, plus or minus 3 decibels. Basically it's a level of tolerance. Upper and lower -3 points just show what the highest or lowest useable output is.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

This below specs is for my subs
Total Frequency Response: 32Hz-225Hz
Lower -3dB Limit: 34 Hz

When they say lower -3db limit : 34 hz.. do they mean the sub can go as deep as 34 hz within -3db or something else? Or maybe they mean +-3db?

It basically means after 32hz, the output from the subwoofer will be less, and less as frequency drops. Fwiw, 32hz is really high for an ht subwoofer. Some movies have been mixed with filters around 30hz but they sound weak and boomy. 20hz is a good enough place to start rolling off. I'll use this pic again (just to keep you from searching). It's useful to about 17hz and will shake your butt, and everything else.
Congrats on getting a new store to drool in!

 

[Hasan Alnajdi]

It basically means after 32hz, the output from the subwoofer will be less, and less as frequency drops. Fwiw, 32hz is really high for an ht subwoofer. Some movies have been mixed with filters around 30hz but they sound weak and boomy. 20hz is a good enough place to start rolling off. I'll use this pic again (just to keep you from searching). It's useful to about 17hz and will shake your butt, and everything else.
Congrats on getting a new store to drool in!

You've done really well explaining.. i really got.. thanks alot

 

[Hasan Alnajdi]

They mean your sub drops 3db at 34hz. It probably continues to drop more drastically below that.

Thank you too my friend

 

[Pogre]

Thank you too my friend

Any time. William and HD do a much better job explaining stuff. I don't like trying to explain things in detail unless I'm sure I know what I'm talking about.