Cop Punches Girl in the Face

[GirgleMirt]

It's always easy to Monday morning QB situations like these. One of many reasons I gave up my goal of becoming a cop after I get out of the military. No matter what you do, it will always offend someone.

In what case is it ok for a policeman to punch someone then? And in what case would it not be ok to punch someone?

 

[Matt34]

If he would have tased them (which I didn't see a taser present), peppered sprayed, thrown her to the ground there would be people flipping out on that as well. Doesn't matter what the officer did, some would find it inappropriate....it's just the nature of the beast. As far as taking her to the ground, bad choice. Remember he is the only officer there and has multiple suspects plus a bunch of bystanders in which he doesn't know their intentions. Staying on his feet and creating distance is the best defense, in which he did when the female grabbed him.

Just because they are females (especially in this day and age) doesn't mean they are any less dangerous. Getting into an physical altercation is one thing, getting into one when you have a firearm on your hip is entirely different.

Like others have made mention if these two outstanding youths had ever had their backsides worn out growing up this video would have never happened.

 

[billy p]

In what case is it ok for a policeman to punch someone then? And in what case would it not be ok to punch someone?

I know one thing for sure I'll never take the liberty of crossing the street but rather walk to the corner wait for the green light to avoid getting a punch in the face.....

 

[Matt34]

I know one thing for sure I'll never take the liberty of crossing the street but rather walk to the corner wait for the green light to avoid getting a punch in the face.....

She wasn't the one jaywalking if you had read the story, she thought she would interject in police business anyhow.

 

[GirgleMirt]

If he would have tased them (which I didn't see a taser present), peppered sprayed, thrown her to the ground there would be people flipping out on that as well. Doesn't matter what the officer did, some would find it inappropriate....it's just the nature of the beast. As far as taking her to the ground, bad choice. Remember he is the only officer there and has multiple suspects plus a bunch of bystanders in which he doesn't know their intentions. Staying on his feet and creating distance is the best defense, in which he did when the female grabbed him.

Pepper spray isn't better than a punch to the face, quite right... Thrown to the ground, again, not that much better. Officers should do what they can not escalate violence...

Just because they are females (especially in this day and age) doesn't mean they are any less dangerous.

Come on... So these two girls are not any less dangerous than if they were two guys? Seriously? You'd think it would not be more dangerous to get attacked by these two black girls than by two black men? Riiiight...

Getting into an physical altercation is one thing, getting into one when you have a firearm on your hip is entirely different.

Right, so you take a step backward instead of clogging a screaming black girl in the face...

Like others have made mention if these two outstanding youths had ever had their backsides worn out growing up this video would have never happened.

Doesn't matter. Police should treat everyone with respect and courtesy, and as much as possible try to restrain from escalating or using violence...

 

[GirgleMirt]

She wasn't the one jaywalking if you had read the story, she thought she would interject in police business anyhow.

"In what case is it ok for a policeman to punch someone then? And in what case would it not be ok to punch someone?"

 

[billy p]

She wasn't the one jaywalking if you had read the story, she thought she would interject in police business anyhow.

I thought she was part of a second group that followed the orignal offender..in any case you just don't puch someone in the face cop or not! I guess they do thing a little differnt in the states?

 

[Rickster71]

It's always easy to Monday morning QB situations like these. One of many reasons I gave up my goal of becoming a cop after I get out of the military. No matter what you do, it will always offend someone.

Very true Matt.
It's like Deja vu all over again.
Wasn't the Airline Bathroom Jokester / bomb thread locked down for the same Monday Morning Quarter backing?

 

[GirgleMirt]

Very true Matt.
It's like Deja vu all over again.
Wasn't the Airline Bathroom Jokester / bomb thread locked down for the same Monday Morning Quarter backing?

Yeah, quite reminiscent, and no one seems to be interested in replying to simple questions here either...

"In what case is it ok for a policeman to punch someone then? And in what case would it not be ok to punch someone?"

To say if said conduct was ok or not ok in a particular circumstance, one has to have a set of rules of conduct. Of course, in some instances it would be ok for a policeman to punch someone, as well as in some circumstances it would be ok to deploy fighter jets. What are these exactly? In the other thread,some guy had lighted up a smoke in a plane bathroom and had joked about trying to light up his shoes. That warranted the deployment of two fighter jets according to some, even if the jets could be of absolutely no use.

In this case, what's the rule for police punching someone? If police walks up to you and grabs your arm, tells you you're under arrest and you say what for you have no right! And struggle a bit, it's ok for him to punch you in the face? Punch you in the teeth, break your nose, knock you out, etc?

 

[Chu Gai]

"In what case is it ok for a policeman to punch someone then? And in what case would it not be ok to punch someone?"

That's a simple question that begets too many scenarios and may depend upon the particular police department as to how various situations are handled. At the present time, the girl has apologized, the officer has accepted, certain community groups have chastized the girl's actions while at the same time calling the punch excessive, the officer has been reassigned, and an internal investigation is occurring.

You've seen the video, GirgleMirt. If you were the officer attempting to arrest the girl in that location with her resisting and with that amount of people around, etc. etc., what would you have done in that same time frame?

 

[Matt34]

Pepper spray isn't better than a punch to the face, quite right... Thrown to the ground, again, not that much better. Officers should do what they can not escalate violence...


Come on... So these two girls are not any less dangerous than if they were two guys? Seriously? You'd think it would not be more dangerous to get attacked by these two black girls than by two black men? Riiiight...


Right, so you take a step backward instead of clogging a screaming black girl in the face...


Doesn't matter. Police should treat everyone with respect and courtesy, and as much as possible try to restrain from escalating or using violence...

Absolutely wrong on almost every account. She came at him while he was trying to apprehend another. She lost any respect or courtesy by doing that. The escalation of violence was stopped by the officers actions, do you deny this?

It only takes one of them to grab his sidearm so yes the two of them at the moment were just as dangerous as two men. As I said early when she made up in her mind to attack an armed police officer she waived her rights to a "fair fight". The results speak for themselves, she was apprehended with nothing more than bruises and the officer made it out of that situation alive.

 

[MatthewB.]

Okay here's my armchair quarterbacking.

In most states just touching someone can be considered assault (look it up) second the girl getting hit was interferring with an officer in the course of his action. Both are considered arrestable offenses. The officer warned her to back off which she refused, again an offense (failuire to follow police instructions) So the girl jaywalking wasnt the issue, it was the second girl who committed three offenses, but by assaulting the officer, the officer had every right to defend himself. There is something called acceptable force plus one by an officer, which means the officer can not only meet the aggressor with matching force but also increase said force by one. (i.e. he/she hits an officer the officer can either hit back or go plus one and strike with a nightstick) and is clearly justified by the courts. It's the same as if someone picks up a rock and tosses it at the officer. The officer has the right to pull his service weapon and shoot that person. and is legal, the rock can be considered a lethal weapon and the officer is allowed by law to go "plus one" and return force with shooting them. Although to most a gun clearly is deadlier than a tossed rock, but the law allows this.

So according to the law, the officer not only had the right to punch her, he had the right to pull his nightstick and crack her across the skull if he wanted to and would be within his rights. The most he did was give her that "wake up and listen" punch" and by her grabbing him, he was clearly in the right as defined by the law. He also could've legally maced her and tazed her) but he chose the lesser of the three and matched her (both assault) but the girl was the one who committed three offenses.

 

[GirgleMirt]

That's a simple question that begets too many scenarios and may depend upon the particular police department as to how various situations are handled.

Not really, what do they teach at the police academy? There must be a set of circumstances where it's ok for police to use force. And even when using force, then it has to be reasonable force. I think we can all agree that punching, is a higher degree of force than simply grabbing someone's arm, putting it in his back, and then pressing them on the car hood to cuff them.

So, when is it ok for a police officer to punch someone? Should be a simple question to answer... When is it ok for a police officer to use his firearm? That's well defined, and the set of circumstances where it is are well established. What is it for punching someone?

Punching is graver than shoving, pushing, slapping, grabbing... It's a physical act of aggression, which can cause serious damage to the target. Say he caught the girl better with his punch and it landed cleanly while she was walking towards him (walked into the punch), he could have broken her neck, caused a concussion, broken her jaw, etc... A punch is no small thing. Police simply can't punch anyone at any time... We must first establish what are these circumstances before being able to judge the situation.

Btw, I know fairly when they're entitled to use force (punch), this wasn't such a situation. Yeah sure, under pressure, maybe he thought he was in danger (though I seriously doubt it), that's probably how he'll spin the story, the police investigating its own will be more than happy to go with that story... But looking back, at the vid, it was police brutality. There was no real danger, it wasn't a dangerous assault towards the police officer, the punch was overzealous, the police over reacted, used too much force, as we see all too often. They should be trained to deal with exactly these situations.

You think that's what they teach in the police academy? 2 crazy black women refusing arrest you punch them full force in the head? Please...

At the present time, the girl has apologized, the officer has accepted, certain community groups have chastized the girl's actions while at the same time calling the punch excessive, the officer has been reassigned, and an internal investigation is occurring.

You've seen the video, GirgleMirt. If you were the officer attempting to arrest the girl in that location with her resisting and with that amount of people around, etc. etc., what would you have done in that same time frame?

First, take a step back, if I think my gun is in any danger, put my hand on it to make sure it is secure. Then with my other arm, point to the unarmed girl and make CLEAR that they are now both under arrest. Since they're 2 and I'm by myself, call for backup. Use free arm to keep crazy black girls away if necessary if they get too close and I think my firearm might be in danger. Make it 100% clear that they are under arrest and that for example, they should put their hands on the hood of the car (no discussion, repeat said commands if they don't respond).

In the case where the girls come at me waving their tiny fists of fury or their purses, then I have a problem, then yeah, use force to defend myself. Punching is definitely preferable to using deadly force (gun). If they just scream and act like crazy upset black women, let them do so, as long as they're not hurting anyone. If they try to run away, then I don't know, chase them down and tackle them or something...

 

[GirgleMirt]

Absolutely wrong on almost every account. She came at him while he was trying to apprehend another. She lost any respect or courtesy by doing that.

No that's wrong. Whenever anyone does anything, always some rules authority must respect. Not because 1 crazy girl does something crazy that it becomes free for all and then deserves a beating or the such. Always rules of conduct for police. Ok respect was not the correct term... But even the worst drug dealer junky pedo rapist murderer scum has basic rights and police above all others should make sure they are treated fairly. They represent the law, they're not thugs out to beat sense into people and the such...

If she did wrong in acting crazy and refusing arrest, arrest her, without injuring her if possible, and then let the judicial system deal with her. It's not up to him to decide to punch her on the spot because she acted crazy.

The escalation of violence was stopped by the officers actions, do you deny this?

Of course not, could have shot them both in the end and that would have stopped the violence also.

It only takes one of them to grab his sidearm so yes the two of them at the moment were just as dangerous as two men. As I said early when she made up in her mind to attack an armed police officer she waived her rights to a "fair fight". The results speak for themselves, she was apprehended with nothing more than bruises and the officer made it out of that situation alive.

Again, was never really a fight. One woman was resisting arrest and was trying to free her arms from the grabbing police officer, the other girl tried to help her and pushed the officer away. Then the officer, after getting pushed back, took a few steps forward and punched the 2nd girl.

Yeah sure she pushed him, that doesn't entitle the police officer to punch her in the face, only to arrest her... That punch was unwarranted imho.

 

[Chu Gai]

Not really, what do they teach at the police academy? There must be a set of circumstances where it's ok for police to use force. And even when using force, then it has to be reasonable force. I think we can all agree that punching, is a higher degree of force than simply grabbing someone's arm, putting it in his back, and then pressing them on the car hood to cuff them.

I have no idea what they teach and whether they all take the same courses. I would think they cover various scenarios in classes. According to his superiors, he acted appropriately but there is an investigation going on. Why did the girl apologize?

So, when is it ok for a police officer to punch someone? Should be a simple question to answer... When is it ok for a police officer to use his firearm? That's well defined, and the set of circumstances where it is are well established. What is it for punching someone?

Call up one of the many police academies or for that matter go to a precinct and ask the question. Me, I'm the wrong guy.

Punching is graver than shoving, pushing, slapping, grabbing... It's a physical act of aggression, which can cause serious damage to the target. Say he caught the girl better with his punch and it landed cleanly while she was walking towards him (walked into the punch), he could have broken her neck, caused a concussion, broken her jaw, etc... A punch is no small thing. Police simply can't punch anyone at any time... We must first establish what are these circumstances before being able to judge the situation.

It's also an act of defense too. How's about we not deal with hypotheticals that didn't occur and just deal with this one? Otherwise, what's to say we can't talk about what if the girl had pepper spray or a shank?

Btw, I know fairly when they're entitled to use force (punch), this wasn't such a situation. Yeah sure, under pressure, maybe he thought he was in danger (though I seriously doubt it), that's probably how he'll spin the story, the police investigating its own will be more than happy to go with that story... But looking back, at the vid, it was police brutality. There was no real danger, it wasn't a dangerous assault towards the police officer, the punch was overzealous, the police over reacted, used too much force, as we see all too often. They should be trained to deal with exactly these situations.

That's a heck of a conclusion given that you haven't conducted any interviews with eye witnesses, seen if there were more videos, and all that.

You think that's what they teach in the police academy? 2 crazy black women refusing arrest you punch them full force in the head? Please...

No. Usually it's two crazy asian women.

First, take a step back, if I think my gun is in any danger, put my hand on it to make sure it is secure. Then with my other arm, point to the unarmed girl and make CLEAR that they are now both under arrest. Since they're 2 and I'm by myself, call for backup. Use free arm to keep crazy black girls away if necessary if they get too close and I think my firearm might be in danger. Make it 100% clear that they are under arrest and that for example, they should put their hands on the hood of the car (no discussion, repeat said commands if they don't respond).

How many seconds transpired?

In the case where the girls come at me waving their tiny fists of fury or their purses, then I have a problem, then yeah, use force to defend myself. Punching is definitely preferable to using deadly force (gun). If they just scream and act like crazy upset black women, let them do so, as long as they're not hurting anyone. If they try to run away, then I don't know, chase them down and tackle them or something...

They didn't look like they said no to Thanksgiving Day seconds.

 

[MatthewB.]

Chu Gai, LMMFAO on that two crazy asian women and 2nds to thanksgiving comment.

Worst fight I ever saw in my life, involved two african american women who got into a fist fight. Holy crap, I'm a pretty big guy and I even didn't want to be in the middle of that one. Beyatches went friggin crazy on each other made me wince more than a few times. BTW these girls were also about 17. I figure that cop lucked out that those two didn't go crazy on him, like I saw those two girls go at each other.

That fight I saw was over 25 years ago and is still fresh in my mind with how brutal that one got.

Matt - who never knew that you can take a huge handful of hair and literrally rip it straight out of someones head with such force that it takes huge chunks of skin with it.

 

[Matt34]

Of course not, could have shot them both in the end and that would have stopped the violence also.

.

Except they would be dead instead of maybe a sore nose. You obviously never been in a situation like this nor have any LEO training.


Just to clarify, the PD was asked by the school to monitor the crosswalk and issue citations because the students were becoming a hazard jaywalking on the street.

 

[billy p]

Okay she apoligized for her actions and the officer was reassigned, what does that prove? Btw nice dig regarding thanksgiving dinner which IMO was un called-for.

 

[GirgleMirt]

I have no idea what they teach and whether they all take the same courses. I would think they cover various scenarios in classes.

Here's an interesting although applying for military, Matt will most probably be accustomed with them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_engagement

U.S. Military Use Of Force Continuum

The 1999 Marine Corps Close Combat Manual (MCRP 3-02B) presents a “Continuum of Force” broken down as follows:

* Level 1: Compliant (Cooperative). The subject responds and complies to verbal commands. Close combat techniques do not apply.
* Level 2: Resistant (Passive). The subject resists verbal commands but complies immediately to any contact controls. Close combat techniques do not apply.
* Level 3: Resistant (Active). The subject initially demonstrates physical resistance. Use compliance techniques to control the situation. Level three incorporates close combat techniques to physically force a subject to comply. Techniques include: Come-along holds, Soft-handed stunning blows, Pain compliance through the use of joint manipulation and the use of pressure points.
* Level 4: Assaultive (Bodily Harm). The subject may physically attack, but does not use a weapon. Use defensive tactics to neutralize the threat. Defensive tactics include Blocks, Strikes, Kicks, Enhanced pain compliance procedures, Impact weapon blocks and blows.
* Level 5: Assaultive (Lethal Force). The subject usually has a weapon and will either kill or injure someone if he/she is not stopped immediately and brought under control. The subject must be controlled by the use of deadly force with or without a firearm.

Rules of engagement are most often decided upon by commanders and are created to carry out and fall in line with over-arching orders or goals from higher command. In order for this to be accomplished, commanders must manufacture rules of engagement that will not violate the trust of the local population, but will instead foster a relationship of respect and understanding.

Here, punching would equate to level 4. "The subject may physically attack". I don't really agree that the girls physically attacked, they resisted arrest, one girl pushed the officer, but that doesn't constitute an attack IMHO, but that could be argued.

According to his superiors, he acted appropriately but there is an investigation going on. Why did the girl apologize?

That's hilarious, so the police says the police officer acted fairly... That's surprising that he didn't take the side of the victim right? That happens so often in cases of police brutality... Really, means nothing, just that they're covering their asses, if he said he used too much force, he'd open the department to get sued and all that... Reminds me how when one politician says something, all of his party applaud and scream "bravo!", "Well said!", "right on!". And when the opposition says something, they all boo.

Call up one of the many police academies or for that matter go to a precinct and ask the question. Me, I'm the wrong guy.

Google'd it, didn't find it... Maybe someone will have better luck than me.

It's also an act of defense too. How's about we not deal with hypotheticals that didn't occur and just deal with this one? Otherwise, what's to say we can't talk about what if the girl had pepper spray or a shank?

Shooting in the head would have been an act of defense too. In this act, the two girls were unarmed. I saw one them push the officer while trying to break his grasp of her friend, but I didn't see them reach for the weapon or throw a punch/kick/eye gouge/etc. Do we agree on this?

That's a heck of a conclusion given that you haven't conducted any interviews with eye witnesses, seen if there were more videos, and all that.

You saw the video... What you're asking is similar to not judging Schifter because you haven't seen/heard the whole story...

No. Usually it's two crazy asian women.

Weird, well here they were black chicks... What can I say... Ok, let's disregard the fact that they're black and just say that they're chicks, they could have been crazy chinese chicks, or white crazy chicks, would have made no difference.

How many seconds transpired?

Probably a wrong split second decision by the police officer if that's what you're referring to, but wrong none the less...

They didn't look like they said no to Thanksgiving Day seconds.

Right, they didn't have time the officer clogged one in the head... Hey, they probably acted that way because they thought they could get away with it, and that there would pretty much be no repercussion (dumb broads), but that doesn't warrant the use of force, imho, it was excessive. They stopped because one already got punched by the police officer, a fully grown man... They were acting crazy, but when they realize that their ridiculous antics could result in them getting the **** beaten out of them, they finally realized how stupid it was on their part to continue.


I always go for "what makes more sense". What was more likely, the 2 broads wanted to kick the *** of the police officer then take his gun and shoot him? Or were they just two black chicks acting crazy?

Chris Rock - How not to get your *** kicked by the police
As funny as this vid is, no one deserves to get their *** kicked by the police. Police is there to arrest, not to kick ***.

 

[GirgleMirt]

Originally Posted by Matt34 View Post
The escalation of violence was stopped by the officers actions, do you deny this?

Of course not, could have shot them both in the end and that would have stopped the violence also.

Except they would be dead instead of maybe a sore nose. You obviously never been in a situation like this nor have any LEO training.

Your point seemed to me like because the punch stopped the escalation of violence, it was the appropriate response. It was not, as I've illustrated by the fact that shooting them would have ended it too, yet, it was not the correct response either.

The punch was an unnecessary escalation of violence, yes, it stunned the crazy chick from acting crazy so he could grab her and cuff her, but that doesn't mean that violence is the solution. There was other ways, besides physical violence, in which the situation could have been remedied. Do you deny this?

You obviously never been in a situation like this nor have any LEO training.

Illustrate what's relevant about it. I've learned martial arts and boxing, I could punch someone in the face quite well, and have not done so in many occasions because violence simply isn't a solution. Same goes for police officers.