confused with all the surround features...

[Sounds Good]

going from an onkyo 777 to the 876 was a major step forward... but i am a little overwhelmed with all the surround sound options (the different modes) on my 777 i only had DD (movie, action, music, etc..) and THX to choose from...

but the 876 has DD PL2, Neo 6, THX, DD+THX...

not sure which one to use... when i switch it mid move the change is subtle...

 

[CraigV]

Most movies you’re going to watch already have the sound encoded for a particular format, I.e. Dolby Digital, DTS, 5.1, 6.1 TrueHD or DTS Master. Best just to let the receiver figure out which one it’s being fed and decode accordingly.

 

[Sounds Good]

Best just to let the receiver figure out which one...

like an auto mode? i dont have a BD player yet (saving pennies for the oppo) so i dont do HD audio yet, and i am also limited by my set up... 5.1, not 6 or 7...

most of my movies are DD or the occasional DTS... (going to watch u571 for the first time in DTS later today )

 

[CraigV]

Ideally you’re getting the sound from your DVD player to the receiver via a digital cable, either coaxial or optical. This will allow the receiver to detect the incoming signal and decode it accordingly, so yes, set the receiver to automatically detect the surround encoding & decode on it’s own.

 

[Sounds Good]

ok, i broke out the manual....

here is how i understand it...

Dolby Pro Logic IIx expands any 2-channel source for listening room into a movie theater or concert hall, with 7.1-channel playback. It provides a very natural and high fidelity and stunning surround sound. seamless surround-sound experience that fully envelops the listener.

i am not going to use this mode because 1) i dont have 6.1/7.1 2) it sounds like it "converts" 2 ch to surround... kind of like a simulated surround...

DTS Neo:6
This mode expands any 2-channel source for up to 7.1-channel playback. It uses seven full-bandwidth channels of matrix decoding for matrix-encoded material, providing a very natural and seamless surround sound experience that fully envelops the listener.

sounds about the same as the previous... takes any 2ch audio and makes surround out of it...

long story short... after reading the descriptions of all the different modes, DD/DTS get my vote... BUT... THX cinema sounds interesting too... i like these modes because the receiver isnt "converting" anything... its taking a multi ch source and playing it back in multi ch... the way it was meant to be...

THX Cinema
THX Cinema mode corrects theatrical soundtracks for playback in a home theater environment. In this mode, THX Loudness Plus is configured for cinema levels and Re-EQ, Timbre Matching, and Adaptive Decorrelation are active.

thats just my first thoughts... but i am still reading and googling...

 

[nibhaz]

I've got hands on experience with the TX-DS777, and I am currently an 876 user. If you’ve got questions I’ve got answers. Check your PMs.

 

[mtrycrafts]

ok, i broke out the manual....
here is how i understand it...
i am not going to use this mode because 1) i dont have 6.1/7.1 2) it sounds like it "converts" 2 ch to surround... kind of like a simulated surround...
sounds about the same as the previous... takes any 2ch audio and makes surround out of it...
...

Yes, but you should really try it out as the processing is very good. It takes any signal that is in phase and amplitude, a mono signal in essence, and places it solidly in the center channel where it should be.
The rears have their own criteria when those signals are directed back.

 

[Sounds Good]

Yes, but you should really try it out as the processing is very good.

ill give it a shot... i just watched u571 in DTS and Wall-e both in THX Cinema. i have Madagascar 2 in now in DD...

their is a HUGE difference in these 2 modes... the DD is more "full" at low volume levels..ie wife approved volumes...lol around -32dB...

i would image at reference levels (what it is designed for) the THX Cinema mode also sounds good and "full" but ill have to do that when wife and daughter are away...

 

[Lordoftherings]

Hi Sounds Good,

It's all about experimenting, just pick the one that sounds best to you.

For movies recorded in Doby Digital -> Try Dolby Digital + Pro Logic IIx Movie mode.
Also check THX Ultra2 Cinema with Surround EX Cinema mode (of course if you have two rear surrounds).

For movies recorded in DTS -> Try DTS + NEO6 Movie mode, or DTS + Dolby Pro Logic IIx Movie mode.

For Music recorded in 2-channel Stereo -> Try Dolby Pro Logic IIx Music mode.
Or DTS EX (matrix) + NEO6 Music mode. (You might like 5 or 7-channel Stereo mode, but personally I don't.)

For movies already recorded with DD EX, just leave it there.
For movies already recorded with DTS ES, also just leave it there.

For Multichannel Music, like SACD and DVD-Audio, just leave it there.

THX Movie mode is good for older movies recorded only in Dolby Surround, or soundtracks having a DD encoded audio, but that sound too bright.
* {For movies using THX Cinema mode with Audyssey, Audyssey "Flat Curve" is automatically applied.}*

*** Oh, also, always use Audyssey superimposed on any audio mode.***
(When you do the automatic room EQ calibration using Audyssey mic, use the full available 8 microphone positions for best averaging results.)

And for Pure Audio 2-channel stereo listening -> Just use exactly the [Pure Audio] mode, or try Stereo mode with the subwoofer engaged and Audyssey.

There are a few more of course, so just try them, but these ones mentioned here are the most valuable. And also in your manual from your 876, there are some tables "Using the Listening Modes" that indicated all the movie and music audio modes with their various audio derivatives. And right after that, "Adjusting the Listening Modes". Make sure to have a look in that section.

Hope that helps,

Bob

 

[nibhaz]

And for Pure Audio 2-channel stereo listening -> Just use exactly the [Pure Audio] mode, or try Stereo mode with the subwoofer engaged and Audyssey.

I'm a big fan of what Audyssey (AS) can do, but personally I find the high frequency roll off from the AS target curve in the stereo listening mode to be very objectionable for music listening. As you well know the Onkyo chooses our target curve for us according to the listening mode, which I consider a major flaw/drawback of the Onkyo implementation, of AS. In order to avoid the frequency roll off you, you need to use the flat target curve or no AS.

The only problem is with our Onkyos the only way to get the flat curve is to use a THX listening mode, and all 3 THX music modes are based on matrix based processing schemes that turn 2.0 material into 5.1 or 7.1…which is fine for noncritical listening, but I generally prefer 2.1.

After quite a bit of playing around I think I’ve found a worthwhile setting for music that gets the benefits of room correction from AS, maintains a great stereo soundstage, and doesn’t get crazy using the rear channels. I suggest trying the following steps if you are interested.

First chose the THX Music, that’s based on DTS Neo: 6. Next go into the setup menu > audio adjustmentss > PLIIx/Neo:6 > Center Width. Set the center width to 5, and then exit. This shuts down the use of the center channel and preserves the original stereo separation between your mains. The rear channels still get some information, but usually not enough to be noticed. So it’s almost straight 2.1 with the AS Flat Curve= great for music.

 

[Sounds Good]

I suggest trying the following steps if you are interested.....AS Flat Curve= great for music.

ill give it a shot... usually for music (sirius satellite connected with optical cord) i just use all ch stereo...

ill definitely try the settings you suggested and report back....

 

[Sounds Good]

First chose the THX Music, that’s based on DTS Neo: 6. Next go into the setup menu > audio adjustmentss > PLIIx/Neo:6 > Center Width. Set the center width to 5, and then exit.

the adjustment menu looks like this...

PL IIx Music (2 ch Input)
Panorama - off
Dimension - 0
Center Width - 3

Neo:6 Music
Center Image - 3

do i adjust center width or center image?

*edit*
i went out on a limb and changed the center width as you suggested... the sounds stage it created sounds great... but.. since the energy take sats are so small i think they depend on the subwoofer a lot and with this setting there isnt enough low end for my liking (as in all ch stereo) how can i adjust for that?

 

[nibhaz]

Sorry

I guess I am an arse. I forgot that both PLII and DTS settings were on the same screen.

Center Image is the actual adjustment that I was suggesting should be set to 5. Also, you need to make sure that you are in the THX Music mode that says Neo:6.

Have you checked out the AS setup guide over at AVS? The steps you use to setup AS seem to a significantly effect the results you get out of AS in regards to bass response. Because AS found that the -3db point for all of my speakers was below 80 Hz it left all of my speakers full range and I had to manually set the crossover point. I’m not sure how the Onkyo and AS handles smaller speakers and whether or not it sets the crossover points for you after running AS. So you might want to double check this in the speaker setup section.

I would also double check the Equalizer Setting found under Speaker Setup in the set up menu. I would suggest starting with the Dynamic EQ setting. Think of it as an enhanced Loudness button that you might find on older gear. It will really help with the bass region, in a balanced way, at lower volumes.

 

[Sounds Good]

great info... ill look into all it...

 

[Lordoftherings]

Control adjustments and what they're for.

I'm a big fan of what Audyssey (AS) can do, but personally I find the high frequency roll off from the AS target curve in the stereo listening mode to be very objectionable for music listening. As you well know the Onkyo chooses our target curve for us according to the listening mode, which I consider a major flaw/drawback of the Onkyo implementation, of AS. In order to avoid the frequency roll off you, you need to use the flat target curve or no AS.

The only problem is with our Onkyos the only way to get the flat curve is to use a THX listening mode, and all 3 THX music modes are based on matrix based processing schemes that turn 2.0 material into 5.1 or 7.1…which is fine for noncritical listening, but I generally prefer 2.1.

After quite a bit of playing around I think I’ve found a worthwhile setting for music that gets the benefits of room correction from AS, maintains a great stereo soundstage, and doesn’t get crazy using the rear channels. I suggest trying the following steps if you are interested.

First chose the THX Music, that’s based on DTS Neo: 6. Next go into the setup menu > audio adjustmentss > PLIIx/Neo:6 > Center Width. Set the center width to 5, and then exit. This shuts down the use of the center channel and preserves the original stereo separation between your mains. The rear channels still get some information, but usually not enough to be noticed. So it’s almost straight 2.1 with the AS Flat Curve= great for music.

That's a very good tip. TY.

If I may add; Audyssey is great in 2-channel stereo audio listening using the Stereo mode, for CDs that are too bright to start off with.

Also, you can use the Treble control to adjust to your personal pleasure; it works quite well, even with Audyssey "Target" (default) curve.

The flaws in the 876 (and all other Onkyo/Integra receivers and pre/pros for that matter) from Audyssey implementation could turn into a Plus if you know how to adjust the controls properly, just like you describe in your own post.

And from my understanding, the Audyssey "Flat" curve is automatically choosen in any THX Cinema mode only (not in Music mode).

Finally, the Audyssey "Front" curve, which is not present at all in our Onkyos 876 (because of Onkyo decision to not implemented it), is not a big lost in my book. Also Audyssey own #1 man (Chris) is actually saying that the "Front" curve is not a very good one and should not have even existed right from the beginning. Many people don't like it and don't ever used it.

So, all in all, the Audyssey Automatic Room EQ as implemented by Onkyo, is not a big deal in my book. I wish though that they would have done the measurements using the Audyssey "tower microphone" at that time, instead of the "hockey puck" shaped one.
But I also found that when using the full 8 microphone positions properly, within a narrow area, you get even better average results.

That ain't bad at all after all!

Bob

 

[Sounds Good]

I also found that when using the full 8 microphone positions properly, within a narrow area, you get even better average results.

i might give that a try also, i just did the minimum (3 pos i think) i dont think i can come up with 8 positions...

 

[nibhaz]

When setting up AS the 1st mic position must be at the center listening position. After that the order in which you place the microphone does not matter.

Here are the common suggested mic positions around a couch.

Here is the pattern that I use for my setup.

 

[Lordoftherings]

And you can even put them closer together.

Also, the three main ones (seating positions) should be taken at ear level.
Then the ones in front of the couch could be taken just a bit below ear level.
And finally the ones behind the couch could be taken just above ear level.

For another suggestion of microphone positions:

................................................Front...............................................
.....................................................................................................
..........................________________________________.........................
..........................l--l..............l...............l...............l--l........................
..........................l--l..............l........6.....l...............l--l........................
..........................l--l..............l...............l...............l--l........................
..........................l--l.5.........2.........1.........3........4.l--l........................
..........................l--l.________l__________l________.l--l........................
..........................l____________8_______7___________l........................
......................................................................................................
......................................................................................................

* Positions #1, 2, 3 and 6 = at ear's level.
* Positions #4 and 5 = just below ear's level (say about 3-5 inches).
* Positions #7 and 8 = just above ear's level (say about 3-5 inches).

*** See, one couch (a 3-seater in this example), and the full 8 mic positions all within the couch area.
-> So, when you lay down (or your wife) on the couch with your head (or her) on a pillow at one end, and your feet (or hers) at the other end; you'll get another sweet spot(s). And the two positions behind the couch is just a balance average for when you walking or standing behind the couch.
Trust me, some pros used the same method.

In the end, it's all about experimentation and what suits you and your family.

Bob

 

[Sounds Good]

Have you checked out the AS setup guide over at AVS?

i just got around to checking out that link... id like to download the doc's but you have to be a member... if anyone is a member and would like to email them to me i would really appreciate it...

 

[Lordoftherings]

Become a member.

i just got around to checking out that link... id like to download the doc's but you have to be a member... if anyone is a member and would like to email them to me i would really appreciate it...

Very simple Sounds Good, just open a membership, it's free and only take a couple minutes.

Bob