Confused about amp / speaker cables (Sansui es-200)...

[ianpatrickroe]

Hi there. I just purchased an amazing set of speakers (Sansui es-200). I'm so pleased with them but I want to test them with my grandparent's old J.E. Sugden stereo amplifier, but I have NO IDEA what cables are needed. I've posted some pictures of the front and backs of both devices - they seem to have different inputs/ outputs. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Swerd]

Your photo with the bubble wrap of the back of a speaker shows two hexagonal shaped nuts, labeled Input + (Red) and – (Black). Those speaker screw terminals require two 2-conductor lamp cord wires, also known as zip cord. They can easily be found in a hardware store, sold by the foot. 16 or 14 gauge wires should be fine. Remove about ½" of insulation and attach the bare wire tips directly to those terminals.

Most amps or receivers also have similar screw terminals, one pair for the left channel and the other pair for the right. They also can accept bare wire. I don't see them in your photo of the amp's rear panel. Those round plastic jacks labeled L.S. Left & Right in your photo of the back of that amp are probably for other sound source inputs, not for speaker wire. Dust off those black heat sink fins and look carefully for speaker screw terminals. They might be just under those black heat sink fins.

J.E. Sugden is an older British company that made a number of different models. Yours might be valuable. I don't see a model name or number in your your amp front photo. Can you see a model name or number any where on the back?

At AH is a British guy, @TLS Guy who might know more about your Sugden stereo amp.

 

[TLS Guy]

Your photo with the bubble wrap of the back of a speaker shows two hexagonal shaped nuts, labeled Input + (Red) and – (Black). Those speaker screw terminals require two 2-conductor lamp cord wires, also known as zip cord. They can easily be found in a hardware store, sold by the foot. 16 or 14 gauge wires should be fine. Remove about ½" of insulation and attach the bare wire tips directly to those terminals.

Most amps or receivers also have similar screw terminals, one pair for the left channel and the other pair for the right. They also can accept bare wire. I don't see them in your photo of the amp's rear panel. Those round plastic jacks labeled L.S. Left & Right in your photo of the back of that amp are probably for other sound source inputs, not for speaker wire. Dust off those black heat sink fins and look carefully for speaker screw terminals. They might be just under those black heat sink fins.

J.E. Sugden is an older British company that made a number of different models. Yours might be valuable. I don't see a model name or number in your your amp front photo. Can you see a model name or number any where on the back?

At AH is a British guy, @TLS Guy who might know more about your Sugden stereo amp.

Yes, that Sugden amp is a valuable collector amp. It was introduced in the late sixties. Sugden was a brilliant engineer. His little integrated amp is a 10 watt per channel amp and is truly class A.

True class A amps have had a checkered career in terms of reliability because the emitter collector current is constant and not affected by the volume. For some reason those Sugden amps are the exception that proves the rule, so to speak.

The logic behind the design is no increase in distortion at low volume and zero crossover distortion.

The design was also licensed to Richard Allen, and the Sugden and Richard Allen amps have identical circuitry. They were all manufactured in the UK.

My eldest sister has one of those amps that has been in regular use since about 1968, driving a pair of speakers I built for her back then. They are an unusual acoustic labyrinth bookshelf design.

Both amps and speakers are still in regular use, and as far as I know have never been serviced.

This is just one reason why I get upset about all the failures of recent gear. In the Golden Age of British Audio the gear worked, and stayed working. That is true value for money!

 

[ianpatrickroe]

@Swerd Thank you so much for the info and the introduction to @TLS Guy - TLS, that's actually incredible to hear this amp is one of the best out there. It'll make my grandparents so proud that it's going to get used again for the beauty of its craft. Just need to hope it still works.

@tlsone thing, do you happen to know which of those sockets at the back of the correct outputs for plugging my Sansui es-200 in to. @Swerd mentions the round plastic jacks labelled L & R arent for that, and its confusing me because I really can't seem to understand which sockets will take the speakers.

Thanks again for the wonderful audio and historical insight into my equipment.

 

[ianpatrickroe]

It's the Sugden a48 btw

 

[TLS Guy]

@Swerd Thank you so much for the info and the introduction to @TLS Guy - TLS, that's actually incredible to hear this amp is one of the best out there. It'll make my grandparents so proud that it's going to get used again for the beauty of its craft. Just need to hope it still works.

@tlsone thing, do you happen to know which of those sockets at the back of the correct outputs for plugging my Sansui es-200 in to. @Swerd mentions the round plastic jacks labelled L & R arent for that, and its confusing me because I really can't seem to understand which sockets will take the speakers.

Thanks again for the wonderful audio and historical insight into my equipment.

Unfortunately your speakers are not in the same category. Japanese speakers of that era are universally in the awful category and those Sansuis are no exception. That amp deserves much better speakers.

Those red and black sockets marked LS (loudspeakers) are the speaker terminals, to which the speakers are connected. A red and a black terminal, one above the other goes to one speaker and the pair the other side go to the other speaker. Make sure you never have a short circuit between them, get the terminals mixed up and NEVER mess with speaker connections with the amp on. It must always be off when making speaker connections.

You will need speaker wires terminated with banana plugs to make the connection.

 

[TLS Guy]

As an interesting aside, I actually met A.R. Sugden who visited us at the Old Parsonage, Frindsbury, Rochester, Kent.

It was 1962 and was 15.

The reason was that the BBC started experimental FM stereo transmissions in 1962. However these were only broadcast from the BBC Wrotham transmitter, high in the North Downs. Anyhow, the OP was on high ground above the River Medway. We had a really good signal from the Wrotham transmitter. We had a good roof antenna. We had a Leak Troughline FM tuner at that time, with an output to possibly connect to a stand alone stereo decoder. We had a Quad 22 stereo preamp, and 2 Quad II power amps, and stereo speakers.

I think we most likely must have met Arthur Sugden at the Spring Audio Fair at the Hotel Russell.

Anyhow Arthur Sugden had designed a stereo decoder. However he lived in Bridle Yorkshire and there was no BBC stereo signal up there.

So Arthur Sugden came to the OP one Saturday morning to test his stereo decoder. It worked and we heard an experimental BBC broadcast.

Some tuners including our LEAK were made "Stereo Ready". However the standards had not been set when the tuners were designed and built, but that had a single RCA output labelled "Multiplex" as I remember. That is 62 years ago now, but that are the details as I remember them.

 

[Swerd]

Those red and black sockets marked LS (loudspeakers) are the speaker terminals, to which the speakers are connected. A red and a black terminal, one above the other goes to one speaker and the pair the other side go to the other speaker. Make sure you never have a short circuit between them, get the terminals mixed up and NEVER mess with speaker connections with the amp on. It must always be off when making speaker connections.

I didn't see that from the OP's photo, but you are right. Those left & right LS terminals are banana plug receptacles for speaker cables.

I looked up Sugden A48 and found this link. It shows an A48 for sale at Canuck Audio Mart from 2 years ago. The asking price was $500 Canadian (now about $367 US).

It's Power Output was said to be 40 Watts RMS per channel (both channels driven at clipping level into 8 Ω). Is the A48 40 or 10 Watts/channel?

The link's photo of the A48 rear panel matches the one posted by the OP (below).

@ianpatrickroe As TLS Guy said, to hook up speakers to your amp to speakers you need a pair of speaker cables with banana plugs on all ends. There are several ways to accomplish that including buying unterminated speaker wire plus 4 banana plugs that you assemble, or speaker wire with banana plugs on them. In the USA, Amazon has many examples. If you want or need more details, please do not hesitate to ask.

 

[ianpatrickroe]

Appreciate all the help and wonderful insight. Thanks.so much

 

[Eppie]

Appreciate all the help and wonderful insight. Thanks.so much

Nice set of posts from the members. If you want to go vintage, I would recommend a pair of KEF speakers, also made in the U.K. I restored a pair of KEF 103.2 from 1984 and they sounded wonderful. You might want something a bit newer as the speaker cones on that model were brittle and could delaminate. I see a pair of KEF 105/3 on US Audio Mart. Of course, new KEF speakers would sound good too.

 

[TLS Guy]

I didn't see that from the OP's photo, but you are right. Those left & right LS terminals are banana plug receptacles for speaker cables.

I looked up Sugden A48 and found this link. It shows an A48 for sale at Canuck Audio Mart from 2 years ago. The asking price was $500 Canadian (now about $367 US).

It's Power Output was said to be 40 Watts RMS per channel (both channels driven at clipping level into 8 Ω). Is the A48 40 or 10 Watts/channel?

The link's photo of the A48 rear panel matches the one posted by the OP (below).
View attachment 68986
@ianpatrickroe As TLS Guy said, to hook up speakers to your amp to speakers you need a pair of speaker cables with banana plugs on all ends. There are several ways to accomplish that including buying unterminated speaker wire plus 4 banana plugs that you assemble, or speaker wire with banana plugs on them. In the USA, Amazon has many examples. If you want or need more details, please do not hesitate to ask.

I find there is now huge confusion on the Net about these Sugden/Richard Allen Class A amps.

The A48 was introduced in 1974, but was identical to the A21 except for the addition of two added inputs. They look the same in a picture except for the number of buttons.

Now this is where there is huge confusion on the Net. People have calculated the power from the output devices, forgetting these are class A amps.

Now when this amp was introduced speakers were 15 or 8 ohm, there were practically no 4 ohm speakers.

So these amps delivered 10 to 15 ohms into most speakers, but from my experience 10 watts into 8 ohms was realistic.

I would guess that 10 to 25 oms might be realistic into 4 ohms. Being class A this would not stress the amps.

I can tell you that these amps are NOT 48 watt per channel amps, as listed by sellers.

To add to the confusion the new owners issue models under the same numbers, but these amps have zero resemblance to those produced by AR Sugden.

As far as speakers, I think you need something of reasonable sensitivity as these are not powerful amps by any measure. They deserve good speakers and not Sansui.

In my view those amps are a classic and ideal for smallish rooms at moderate listening levels.

They do need good ventilation as the output devices work just as hard at all volumes.