Concerns for the Future of Sound United and Update on my Marantz 7706.

[TLS Guy]

It is now April and there have been no announcements from Masimo concerning the future of Sound United.

However most of their electronics are fabricated in Vietnam. Trump has places 46% tariff on goods from Vietnam.

For China he added 34% to an existing 20% tariff for a total 54% Tariff.

I would say that it makes the sale of Sound United very unattractive. So I suspect that Sound United will be sold brand by brand. There are already some rumors of that. B & W still have some manufacturing capability in the UK and so do KEF, they are owned by Gold Peak Group out of Hong Kong.

It will be very bad for companies like Perlisten. I thought it very unwise for them to manufacture in China.

This will give RBH a big boost and also Magnepan.

I think it will take a miracle for this not to be the end of Denon Marantz.

Republicans need to wake up and join forces with Democrats to put an end to this tariff nonsense. History shows us that these types of Tariffs are very bad economics, and lead to world wide depression like 1929 and then a good chance of ending in a war. Of course Trump does not read books and is pig dribble ignorant.

In less than 24 hours there are adverse economic indicators world wide.

 

[Mark E. Long]

Don’t know if it’s Tariff related but I’ve noticed that on worlds best cable Amazon sight that a lot of Mogami cable in lots of variety’s are either not there or in very small batches I believe it’s sourced from Japan or elsewhere over there . Have noticed that euro cables are slim like Gotham ect and the cables that they do stock seem to have price increases too and not many choices in length but so far other parts like good quality rca’s and Zoe ends still seem available for now . Got 3 carver TFM amps in right now for complete restoration’s glad I did this before there is a shortage of weird little parts for them .

 

[dlaloum]

It is now April and there have been no announcements from Masimo concerning the future of Sound United.

However most of their electronics are fabricated in Vietnam. Trump has places 46% tariff on goods from Vietnam.

For China he added 34% to an existing 20% tariff for a total 54% Tariff.

I would say that it makes the sale of Sound United very unattractive. So I suspect that Sound United will be sold brand by brand. There are already some rumors of that. B & W still have some manufacturing capability in the UK and so do KEF, they are owned by Gold Peak Group out of Hong Kong.

It will be very bad for companies like Perlisten. I thought it very unwise for them to manufacture in China.

This will give RBH a big boost and also Magnepan.

I think it will take a miracle for this not to be the end of Denon Marantz.

Republicans need to wake up and join forces with Democrats to put an end to this tariff nonsense. History shows us that these types of Tariffs are very bad economics, and lead to world wide depression like 1929 and then a good chance of ending in a war. Of course Trump does not read books and is pig dribble ignorant.

In less than 24 hours there are adverse economic indicators world wide.

Trump is building (has built?) a protectionist wall around the USA.

The trouble is, the USA has changed its economy to a global dependent structure - everything is dependent to a greater or lesser degree on imports.

And he has implemented the wall overnight, where shifting manufacturing, building revamping facilities/factories takes time, typically years.

So now we will have the USA market and the world market - and they won't be the same.

Companies and product design structures based on a global marketplace, will now need to be revised.

Sound United will need to look closely at its manufacturing facilities and brands, and match those to the marketplaces (US / Rest of world).

Although in theory, the Tariffs should not impact on exports - and US based manufacturing should be able to export, reality is, reciprocal tariffs are likely to be deployed by all nations that punitive tariffs have been applied to.... so not only will it kill imports it will also kill exports - USA close the doors and windows, and decides the rest of the world does not exist.

In previous generations, Marantz was USA, and Denon was Japan.... perhaps they can survive as USA manufactured Marantz and "Rest of World" manufactured Denon....(and similarly with the rest of the SU suite of companies)

 

[TLS Guy]

Trump is building (has built?) a protectionist wall around the USA.

The trouble is, the USA has changed its economy to a global dependent structure - everything is dependent to a greater or lesser degree on imports.

And he has implemented the wall overnight, where shifting manufacturing, building revamping facilities/factories takes time, typically years.

So now we will have the USA market and the world market - and they won't be the same.

Companies and product design structures based on a global marketplace, will now need to be revised.

Sound United will need to look closely at its manufacturing facilities and brands, and match those to the marketplaces (US / Rest of world).

Although in theory, the Tariffs should not impact on exports - and US based manufacturing should be able to export, reality is, reciprocal tariffs are likely to be deployed by all nations that punitive tariffs have been applied to.... so not only will it kill imports it will also kill exports - USA close the doors and windows, and decides the rest of the world does not exist.

In previous generations, Marantz was USA, and Denon was Japan.... perhaps they can survive as USA manufactured Marantz and "Rest of World" manufactured Denon....(and similarly with the rest of the SU suite of companies)

Not a chance. I doubt we make many of the ICs, and the most important ones we would not have clue how to fabricate. That oaf Trump is as dim as 'ditchwater'.

 

[isolar8001]

It would take 30 years for the USA to develop the chip manufacturing capability and know how of the Asian manufacturers.
And, that would all be done by robots anyhow.
Unless robot unemployment reaches record levels, this will help no one here.

 

[lovinthehd]

It is now April and there have been no announcements from Masimo concerning the future of Sound United.

However most of their electronics are fabricated in Vietnam. Trump has places 46% tariff on goods from Vietnam.

For China he added 34% to an existing 20% tariff for a total 54% Tariff.

I would say that it makes the sale of Sound United very unattractive. So I suspect that Sound United will be sold brand by brand. There are already some rumors of that. B & W still have some manufacturing capability in the UK and so do KEF, they are owned by Gold Peak Group out of Hong Kong.

It will be very bad for companies like Perlisten. I thought it very unwise for them to manufacture in China.

This will give RBH a big boost and also Magnepan.

I think it will take a miracle for this not to be the end of Denon Marantz.

Republicans need to wake up and join forces with Democrats to put an end to this tariff nonsense. History shows us that these types of Tariffs are very bad economics, and lead to world wide depression like 1929 and then a good chance of ending in a war. Of course Trump does not read books and is pig dribble ignorant.

In less than 24 hours there are adverse economic indicators world wide.

This the brexit guy speaking?

 

[TLS Guy]

This the brexit guy speaking?

What has Brexit got to do with this? Tariffs are half that levied by Trump on the EU than those levied on the UK..

 

[Trebdp83]

I suspect some have gotten into the good stuff this evening and didn’t even think to share any of it.

 

[TLS Guy]

Latest Statement from Masimo. "Operations are ongoing while we try and find a buyer for Sound United."

With Trumps tariffs against China and Vietnam, I would say the chance of a sale in the near future is unlikely.

These Tariffs will increase the bleeding. I fear Sound United will be one of the first victims of this stupid trade war.

 

[little wing]

Corporate greed by the upper management echelon is responsible for out sourcing and the decline of skilled labor in Canada and the US. The US has a twit for president who has a total lack of understand of how complicated outsourcing has become and is haphazardly applies tariffs across the board. "DUMP" and his followers will be single handedly responsible for the ensuing world wide recession that he's triggering.

Also unknown to the vast uneducated masses of the US, he's bringing a system online that is decimating the middle class and rewarding the wealthy. Look at the Trump/Musk partnership.

"Making America great again"?? More like make America broke and drag the rest of world with it.

He wasn't even the first to use that phrase. He copied it from Reagan

 

[lovinthehd]

He wasn't even the first to use that phrase. He copied it from Reagan

Little original with the drumph, much is now coming from Hitler's playbook

 

[Kleinst]

That is precisely my point. However that market has been wilfully neglected.

A good 2 channel system gives you at least 90% of the loaf. The industry has concentrated on that last 10%.

The other issue is that the AV multi channel AV market is now maturing as you would expect from the experience of other new technologies. This home AV market started and diverged from classic stereo audio in the dying years of the last century. So this technology is now approaching 30 years of age. This is widely recognized as the maturing period of new technologies and this is happening now.

Yes, Yamaha have spotted this and are not churning out new units, which is wise.

Those who want something smaller for home theater will buy a sound bar. Those who listen to music, well they mostly do it on earbuds and headphones now. This is younger people. Sure there are some exceptions.

I have triplet girls. I try to talk them into taking a 3 channel system. They don't even want it. One wanted one for college. But now in their new apartments, one wants just the TV sound and the other took a soundbar I got with my OLED TV on a promo.

So, they must figure out who they can appeal to for home theater setups somehow or it will continue to be a smaller and smaller audience. I'm 51 and I don't know many people younger than me that go to the trouble of putting systems together.

That's just what I see. I hate it because I fear there will be less selection and higher prices for us.

 

[lovinthehd]

Those who want something smaller for home theater will buy a sound bar. Those who listen to music, well they mostly do it on earbuds and headphones now. This is younger people. Sure there are some exceptions.

I have triplet girls. I try to talk them into taking a 3 channel system. They don't even want it. One wanted one for college. But now in their new apartments, one wants just the TV sound and the other took a soundbar I got with my OLED TV on a promo.

So, they must figure out who they can appeal to for home theater setups somehow or it will continue to be a smaller and smaller audience. I'm 51 and I don't know many people younger than me that go to the trouble of putting systems together.

That's just what I see. I hate it because I fear there will be less selection and higher prices for us.

Triplet girls I'd think would simply dwarf all else....

 

[TLS Guy]

As most of you probably know, I have been having issues with my Marantz AVP 7706.

The issues with Sound United are complicating matters.

My dealer who is a stand-up guy has been spending time on this. He tells me that it is hard to get hold of anyone in authority at Marantz. Anyhow he did a couple of days ago.
They have no AVP10s in stock that I have placed an order for. However there was confirmation of what Def Tech told me recently that they expect product at the end of this month. I understand that this is not firm. I suspect there are people worried about not being paid and so does the dealer. Sound United, according to my dealer have very little stock in the US, as far as he can tell.

Masimo have cancelled all "good will" in their sale price and discounted the asking price four hundred and fifty million dollars. They have also classified Sound United Non Entity. I had to search what this meant. Essentially this is to indemnify any purchaser of any tax liabilities prior to purchase. So it is not as bad as it sounds. So I suspect that Sound United could be bought at a basement price currently. If Masimo shutter Sound United it is virtually a total loss. Trumps Tariffs and the total chaos and uncertainty he has created complicates the situation enormously.

So I hope I can obtain an AVP 10, but I have to mark this as uncertain currently. With the situation currently I have no assurance the any warranty, should it be required, could be honored. I am bargaining via my dealer with Sound United on this aspect. I have the strong impression that Sound United are keen to liquidate any stock on hand as well as any ordered in the pipe line ASAP.

With Trump's antics this debacle with Sound United and Masimo could not have come at a worse time.

One thing, I think is clear, that any member purchasing any Sound United product at this time can not be assured of warranty service, so should keep this in mind. Hopefully this will still have a good outcome, but that is far from assured.

 

[oniiz86]

@TLS Guy I know the situation is absolutely dire but what is baffling is that Marantz are about to release their new 13.4 AV processor the AV20 the successor to the AV8805A & new 12 Ch amplifier the AMP20, if Masimo no longer have interest in their consumer audio division & are getting ready to sell ASAP, why would they be gearing up for new product releases, is it to give the illusion that everything is A-OK or is it simply that these products have been in development for quite some time so they must release them?

 

[highfigh]

Those who want something smaller for home theater will buy a sound bar. Those who listen to music, well they mostly do it on earbuds and headphones now. This is younger people. Sure there are some exceptions.

I have triplet girls. I try to talk them into taking a 3 channel system. They don't even want it. One wanted one for college. But now in their new apartments, one wants just the TV sound and the other took a soundbar I got with my OLED TV on a promo.

So, they must figure out who they can appeal to for home theater setups somehow or it will continue to be a smaller and smaller audience. I'm 51 and I don't know many people younger than me that go to the trouble of putting systems together.

That's just what I see. I hate it because I fear there will be less selection and higher prices for us.

There is no way ear buds or headphones will produce the sound of a great audio system. The reason younger people don't go through the trouble include:

They don't understand how to do it,
They don't care enough about sound quality,
They can't/don't want to spend the money,
Their place doesn't lend itself to building a great system and having a great result.

 

[Trell]

There is no way ear buds or headphones will produce the sound of a great audio system. The reason younger people don't go through the trouble include:

They don't understand how to do it,
They don't care enough about sound quality,
They can't/don't want to spend the money,
Their place doesn't lend itself to building a great system and having a great result.

For my daughter: Don't care that much about sound quality, but she does appreciate the sound quality when in our living room. At least I got her the best Apple ear-buds, for what it's worth. Same goes for viewing movies on a TV.

Yeah, she still live home as she attends a university.

 

[TLS Guy]

@TLS Guy I know the situation is absolutely dire but what is baffling is that Marantz are about to release their new 13.4 AV processor the AV20 the successor to the AV8805A & new 12 Ch amplifier the AMP20, if Masimo no longer have interest in their consumer audio division & are getting ready to sell ASAP, why would they be gearing up for new product releases, is it to give the illusion that everything is A-OK or is it simply that these products have been in development for quite some time so they must release them?

It is not so baffling if you look at the total situation.

Sound United was a vanity purchase by Masimo in April 2022, when Joe Kiani was CEO.

Joe Kiani is an AV enthusiast. Masimo are a manufacturer of medical equipment, principally oxygen monitoring equipment. The margins for home AV are way less than for medical hardware. Compared to what Kiani paid for Sound united profits have been paltry.
Share holders were outraged, and Joe Kiani was ousted. Now there are on going lawsuits about all this.

Anyhow Sound United has gone from marginal to a money loosing proposition of late.

Most of their manufacture has been in China but a lot moving to Vietnam over the last five years or so. Both my units made in Vietnam have given trouble prematurely.

Anyhow, the board and shareholders of Masimo want Sound United gone.

There is little stock according to my dealer. He doubts the AVP 20 will actually see the light of day, especially after all this tariff turmoil. So now the price of Sound United is severely written down, and we will have to see if there are any takers. Trump's activities make this unlikely in my view. Sound United is in a bad position and starved of capital and the CEO and board are trying to do everything they can to hide this from the shareholders and the market. Declaring Sound United a non entity is the latest ruse to hide the facts from the share holders.

I have an AV10 made in Japan on order. I will not be surprised if I never set eyes on it.

So I will let this playout. At the moment I have found a way to live with my 7706. The buzz always goes away if the unit is left unplugged for a significant number of hours.

So I reasoned that this issue was somehow heat related, even though the unit is in an open rack and my accurate laser thermometer says the top of the case never goes over 95F and usually less. That is not hot at all.

Nevertheless I ordered a pair of surface mount cooling fans. I have these installed on top. At the slow speed it somewhat increased the useable hours. At the full speed I can get pretty much a day's use out of it, before the buzz re-appears. With the fan running the case is stone cold.

Frankly the interior layout of these units is not very good. So I suspect there is some solid state device that is somewhat boxed in and not cooling adequately.

The AVP 10 seems to me to have a much better layout, and is not based on some lousy AVR less the power amps.