Class A vs. AB

[Irvrobinson]

.... and partially because of this on-going rhetoric that amps are pretty much commodities.

Perhaps you should explore the possibility to compare amps under DBT, level matched conditions and see if it is still a rhetoric 20+ years of DBT comparison doesn't support what I think you are implying.

I was basing my junk comment on the mechanical properties of the amp. It is built more cheaply than a typical consumer A/V product, IMO, to be more specific. Unnecessarily so, I think.

Maybe, but it is the design that makes the amp and signal processing, not the faceplate's cost, etc. After all, for $180 you will not get the same craftsmanship of an exotic amp. Most here are concerned about $$.

and there was a difference in the audible hiss level in the room. No, I couldn't hear it during reasonable music, but you could hear it with the amp just sitting there idling. It would drive me nuts if I bought that product, hence my comment.

As Chris mentioned, maybe it was the way it was set up?
The spec shows a -72dB (.025%) THD+N at .1watt level at high frequency, 20kHz. much better as frequency goes down. Perhaps they should use a more audible high frequency, like 16kHz?

The noise was audible within 6ft of the speakers, inaudible at 10ft.)

Thanks. I guess the solution is to sit at 10ft+ If I decide to get one for my boombox, I usually sit at 13ft, so the noise will not be an issue. Great news.

Nonetheless, my "junk" comment was mostly based on the mechanical properties of the amp. Anyone that owns, say, a Denon or Sony AV receiver would be disappointed, IMO, if they saw one, no less a snob like me. Of course, I'm not the target market.


I don't see how they would knowing that it is a $180 component. But, if such a component is on display for others, A better, more presentable amp is in order

Thanks for silliness about a DBT; yeah we all do that in our homes. I was implying that amps do have different electrical characteristics, and with the right speakers some of those differences are audible. Why don't you Google me up a list of some papers to read on the subject. Not.

Nonetheless, I am sorry for the comment I made about the A500 being junky. It is not that you have convinced me otherwise, just that it wasn't my intention to cause a religious debate, and my inflamatory original post was inappropriate. After reading some of the other posts I'd have to agree "that most here are interested in $$". I'm a quality-driven sort, so I suspect I'll be in the third standard deviation in this forum. Given that, I think perhaps my time (and that for "most here") would be better off if I spent it elsewhere.

 

[pearsall001]

What I meant by my statement that "Our ears are by far the best known device to measure sound" is that they are the only two things we can rely on to tell us if the sound we are listening to is soothing, relaxing, motivating, calming or just plain old annoying. The list of adjetives could go on & on. No electrical device could ever measure how we feel about the music we are listening to. And I think you are right, maybe you should hang out on the KRELL forum to feel more at home.

 

[mtrycrafts]

What I meant by my statement that "Our ears are by far the best known device to measure sound" is that they are the only two things we can rely on to tell us if the sound we are listening to is soothing, relaxing, motivating, calming or just plain old annoying. The list of adjetives could go on & on. No electrical device could ever measure how we feel about the music we are listening to. And I think you are right, maybe you should hang out on the KRELL forum to feel more at home.

"Measuring sound' has a very specific meaning, hence the responses. What you are implying though is not measuring but just listening and evaluating that sound to known information in the old memory banks and new ones.

As to feelings, I bet your brainwaves can be measure for responses and after a baseline, could be pretty well replicated. It is there where all the processing takes place.

 

[pearsall001]

You're right my terminology was a bit misleading. Thanks for clearing that up. I still stand behind my notion that our ears are by far our best tool when it comes to how & why we listen to music. The amount of money one spends on their system is sometimes misleading in terms of our actual enjoyment. The $180 A500 amp will definetely take a bashing because of it's price point & it's perceived notion that something that cheap just can't be any good. On the flip side a $10,000 KRELL amp (I am not singling out KRELL here by any means) will aslo take a bashing not because of it's price tag but because one just didn't like the way it sounded to them. What's up with that? The KRELL had flawless specs compared to the A500 AMP. What do you mean you didn't like the way it sounded? I would love to be involved w/ some "golden ears" in a blind listening test w/ the eguipment behind a curtain. I guarantee you that not one of them could pin point when their stuff was running as compared to much less expensive stuff. The human audible memory is really quite non existent. Sure we know what a firetruck or a ref's whistle sounds like but we couldn't go into much detail about the sound except that it's loud. When it comes to our stereo listening I think it's even worse. Within 5 minutes of what we just heard we actually can't rember what it really sounded like. We tell ourselves we can but we really can't. We might make a series of comments like the bass was tight or the mid range was a little weak & stuff like that but we have no proof if it is actually correct. Swap out the amp & we'll tell ourselves we heard the same song differently because we saw the amp being swaped out. Now our brain is involved where it doesn't belong. Do the same thing behind a curtain & tell him that you changed the amp & to now describe the sound. I guarantee you he will say it sounded more open or the voices were magical or something along those lines. Now break the news to him -YOU DIDN'T CHANGE ANYTHING. BUT - BUT - I heard a difference I know I heard a difference. I just know you changed gear on me. Sorry guy that was your brain talking not your ears. This stuff is so speculative & individual. It really doesn't matter how much we spend on our system, it only matters that we enjoy the music. I am quite happy with the music I hear thru the A500 amps. To each his own.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I still stand behind my notion that our ears are by far our best tool when it comes to how & why we listen to music.

Yes, of course. But, in reality, it is our whole being that does the evaluation in the brain. Our past experiences in music, what connection in our lives that music kindles, like a pleasant memory, or not. The ears are just a signal converter to get the info to the brain for processing, right??
Same applies to our other senses: sight, smell, touch, etc.


The amount of money one spends on their system is sometimes misleading in terms of our actual enjoyment.

Yes I can certainly enjoy my boombox and even the car radio as certain music on them evoke the same emotions as with another system.

The $180 A500 amp will definitely take a bashing because of it's price point & it's perceived notion that something that cheap just can't be any good.

Yes, once again The marketeers have done a wonderful job over the many decades making sure of that.

I would love to be involved w/ some "golden ears" in a blind listening test w/ the equipment behind a curtain. I guarantee you that not one of them could pin point when their stuff was running as compared to much less expensive stuff.


WOW, another YES The audio history books shows this aptly. So, it is our biases that interferes.

And the same for the rest of your post

 

[pearsall001]

I take it that we think alot alike when it comes to this hobby of ours. Well done!!!

 

[PENG]

It would really be nice if Audioholics could conduct DBT's to find out if forum members from both camps (those who say each amp has its own sonic signature and those who say they sound the same) can really tell the difference between pre-amps/power amp/CD players. Those who participates would win prices and the rest of us could bet.

 

[mtrycrafts]

It would really be nice if Audioholics could conduct DBT's to find out if forum members from both camps (those who say each amp has its own sonic signature and those who say they sound the same) can really tell the difference between pre-amps/power amp/CD players. Those who participates would win prices and the rest of us could bet.

Yes, excellent suggestion. If they invite Tom Nousaine to supervise the first such testing, I am ready to bet

 

[Nick250]

SNIP

where it doesn't belong. Do the same thing behind a curtain & tell him that you changed the amp & to now describe the sound. I guarantee you he will say it sounded more open or the voices were magical or something along those lines. Now break the news to him -YOU DIDN'T CHANGE ANYTHING. BUT - BUT - I heard a difference I know I heard a difference. I just know you changed gear on me. Sorry guy that was your brain talking not your ears. This stuff is so speculative & individual. It really doesn't matter how much we spend on our system, it only matters that we enjoy the music. I am quite happy with the music I hear thru the A500 amps. To each his own.

It's kind of like when I get my car washed when it's been all grimmy. After the wash the engine runs smoother, the ride is nicer and I get better gas milage. And don't anybody tell me it's not so.

PS It really feels that way to me. It's amazing what tricks the mind can play on us (or at least mine can play on me).

 

[pearsall001]

Personally I'm not a betting man but I would sure like to get in on this one! I think it would be a ton of fun to be involved in a DBT.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Personally I'm not a betting man but I would sure like to get in on this one! I think it would be a ton of fun to be involved in a DBT.

Hard not to bet on a sure thing

 

[pearsall001]

Amen!!!!!!!!