Choosing an SVS sub

[G-force]

I've pretty much narrowed it down to the PB10 or the 25-31 PC-plus. My room is huge and awkward so I really dont think either of these will be able to pressurise the room, but floor space is also an issue so these are my two choices. I personally like the look of th box better, but the cylinder should have better output as well as port control, and the newly designed plus sub is enticing. So basically I'm asking if the difference in output will be worth the distance in price and WAF.

Any input is appreciated.

 

[Sheep]

The 25-31 Plus will definitely have more output.

How big is the room?

SheepStar

 

[snobgoblin]

thats a big jump between subs.

 

[patnshan]

If you want a box, I would say get the the PB-12 ISD/V. That would be more in the price range of the tube you are considering.
As SVS says on their website, the tubes always give more bang for the buck but are often less desirable in the WAF factor.

Pat

 

[j_garcia]

Are you talking 25-31PCi or PC Plus? Big difference between the two.

 

[Ron Temple]

The Plus should give you 5-6db headroom over the PB10 which will be signficant in any room. Since your room is large, you still may be challenged.

 

[G-force]

I'd guess the room is about 18x30 that opens up with about 20' vaulted ceilings into an upper balcony.

again the PB12 is just a little too large of footprint, and the textured black is not very appealing to me either.

Here are a few photos of the room for size reference...

Now you see what I'm up against, there is still another whole side of the room not pictured.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

Contact SVS's customer service. They have a great reputation for service. My thoughts are buy as big and advanced a tube as you can afford and your better half can stand. (within SVS's recomendation)

Good luck!
SBF1

 

[j_garcia]

In that room, I'd probably opt for a 20-39 Plus if not a PC Ultra.

 

[Steve42]

If it's only SVS you are considering, I would agree with j_garcia, the 20-39 Plus or the PC Ultra will be the way to go. But for a room like that I'd recommend two. If size was not an issue and you could only have one sub, as far as SVS goes the choice would have to be either the PB12 Plus/2 or Ultra/2.

What's your price limit? If you can afford $1400 and can stand a 17" cubed sub, I know of one that can fill that room, and you won't be able to bottom out the driver or hear any port noise (it's not an SVS though).

 

[Steve42]

Two subs can can help even out bass response in any room. That said, all rooms will have nulls and peaks regardless, and there is no way to tell unless you run a FR sweep to find out. His room may actually be better than others which seem like they would be better. It is always recommended to use an EQ to flatten response regardless of the room. Two subs can be much harder to properly dial in when placed apart from eachother as well. If you want to gain the most SPL, co-location of dual subs is best so you can get about 6dB gain. If you place them apart the gain will go down (probably somewhere aroud 2-4dB). In any case yes two subs can help even out the FR, is it "necessary", no. With patience and an EQ, you can setup any room.

 

[Steve42]

EQ's are very effective in bringing down certain FR's to minimize the nulls in other areas (which is how people usually deal with nulls). Narrow and steep nulls are definately hard to deal with. But rooms with really bad nulls cannot be compensated completely with multiple subs either. It may help a little, but they will also be much harder to integrate than co-located subs, and you will lose the extra SPL.

Unfortunately it all starts with the room, there is only so much you can do especially regarding nulls. In really bad rooms, idealy you would have multiple subs, EQ, and bass traps. However, bass traps and EQ will be the easiest solutions for most people.There are always trade-offs.

In the OP case, where $ and size seem to be an issue, I would recommend getting the best sounding sub with the most SPL capability and use a EQ to flatten the FR as much as possible. Again, when dealing with nulls, bring down the other frequencies to minimize the null. Bass traps can be stylish and less expensive than another sub too. Real Traps has them for about $200 a piece and you can paint them any color you like.

 

[eirepaul]

I just purchased the 25-31PC+

and I have a very similar room, without the balcony. After consultation with SVS, they recommended this one over the PB-10 (my original interest) mainly due to output for my large space. I am very happy with it and it provides more than enough bass for my system, which is mostly multi-channel music based. I'm not a big movie person or a bass freak, so this unit is perfect for me. And it fits perfectly in a 90-degree corner behind my equipment rack.

By the way, does it have to be so complicated to dial in a subwoofer? Aren't some of you guys taking it a bit to the extreme. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I simply followed the guidance in the SVS manual and the sub sounds just great. Maybe it's an easy sub to integrate.

 

[j_garcia]

By the way, does it have to be so complicated to dial in a subwoofer?

It is different for every room and setup. With all my previous subs, I had a null in my room. With my current sub, the FR is flat enough that I decided not to get an EQ.

 

[eirepaul]

It is different for every room and setup. With all my previous subs, I had a null in my room. With my current sub, the FR is flat enough that I decided not to get an EQ.

So what exactly is a "null in your room". I suspect it is a small area where one does not hear bass notes? If so, as long as you are not sitting in that exact location, is it really a big deal?

 

[Sheep]

So what exactly is a "null in your room". I suspect it is a small area where one does not hear bass notes? If so, as long as you are not sitting in that exact location, is it really a big deal?

Every part of a room has nulls. Some Just occur at different frequency's.

View this article for more information.

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/setup/loudspeakers/SubwooferplacementP1.php

SheepStar

 

[j_garcia]

So what exactly is a "null in your room". I suspect it is a small area where one does not hear bass notes? If so, as long as you are not sitting in that exact location, is it really a big deal?

The problem was that null was right at my preferred seating position. Usually when people discuss nulls it is somewhere in the prime listening area, since that is where you will want to take measurements to see if your FR is flat or if you have peaks or dips. Peaks aren't always too bad, but nulls are very easily noticed. Nulls more or less occur in a limited range centered around a particular frequency; mine was a big dip right around 80hz and it was very noticable. A null is created when the waves of that particular frequency band intersect their own reflections within your room and effectively cancel each other out.

 

[Ron Temple]

Most rectangular rooms have a bass suckout somewhere near the middle of the room at 50-60hz. It can be quite extreme, > 10db. Effectively, this can silence the a big piece of a bass note. Conversely, a corner loaded sub like mine and yours might give you gain down low. I get as much as 15dbs from 36hz down. I happen to like it for HT as my 20-39+ doesn't sound boomy.

 

[Steve42]

By the way, does it have to be so complicated to dial in a subwoofer? Aren't some of you guys taking it a bit to the extreme. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I simply followed the guidance in the SVS manual and the sub sounds just great. Maybe it's an easy sub to integrate.

Everyone else has pretty much covered it. But let me just say that for years I just dialed in my subs using in the basic setup, ie: level, phase, crossover, etc. And things seemed fine. But the more I got into music in particular, the more I found that the bass either sounded a little "bloated" with some tracks, and on others a little "thin". I also noticed this on heavy action flicks. That's when I started to educate myself (mostly through the "net") about how heavily the room dictates how good or bad bass sounds in relation to FR. So I bought the three most valuable tools to see what was happening at all bass frequencies at the listening positions. A RS SPL meter, Test CD with sweep tones, and to adjust a BFD to help correct for room peaks (and even nulls to a much smaller extent by reducing other freq. around the null). Later on I also found the value of bass traps to help even out bass response.

In any case, one of the most valuable things anyone in this hobby can do is go out and buy a SPL meter and a test CD, and see what FR (frequency response) you really have at your listening positions. Then if you have patience and like to "tweak" buy a inexpensive parametric EQ like the BFD and you will find the bass even more enjoyable to listen to then it already is. Or if you want something that is quite a bit easier to deal with, buy a Velodyne SMS-1 for more $.

Sure setting up a sub in the basic sense is pretty easy. If you want great bass, you have to work for it a little. Some very select few have very good rooms as far as having a relatively flat FR to begin with. Most do not. To me it is not "extreme" to get the best sounding bass in any given room. Subs don't really dictate how good your bass will sound at the listening position, as far as nulls and peaks go, your room does.

 

[j_garcia]

Subs don't really dictate how good your bass will sound at the listening position, as far as nulls and peaks go, your room does.

I used to think that too, but having 3 subs in this room, all with the same null and then switching to my current beast and having it go away, I'd have to say that it may be a bit more accurate to say that it is how a particular sub interacts and its placement within that room that has a lot to do with it. The former subs were 1 down firing, side ported, and 2 front firing, front ported; the current one is downfiring, top ported (and considerably larger than any of the others).