Choose 2 subs for my new theater room! (Details inside)

Landmonster

Landmonster

Audioholic
Jtr will actually have lower resale value compared to what you paid. It took me months to sell cap 2400 and 4000. Most people just hate the way they look or the size. It’s a huge specialty market to have massive expensive subs. For example it took me 6 months to sell dual fv18pc and I got $2400 for pair. Sold to separate people even. The cap 2400 I got $3000 for pair and again took 5-6 months to sell. So I lost $1300ish on Rythmik and over $2000 on jtr. I don’t even want to say what I had to sell cap4000 for. Now a little mono 10 or 12 will be worth 300-600 for years and I’d be surprised if you lost $500 on a pair after owning them for years.

I’d agree with James also, spl and data show quality, not driver size. Driver size does matter though and obviously is better but at cost. Dual cap4000ulf will destroy dual Rythmik Fv15hp but at a huge cost. Do you want to spend $5000 more for something you’ll never use? They are also hideous unless you can hide in a dark theater room.
These are all very good points.

I'm a big "money saver guy", and I hate buying things that take a huge hit on resale value. That is the main reason I picked my Polk LSiMs... not because they are "World's greatest no-holds-barred speakers", but they were an exceptional value, and I like their look. They do sound very good to me... even better on exceptional source material.

As far as sub resale value:
I've heard it go both ways on this.... some have said that JTR speakers/subs retain the resale value, because they are built like tanks. However, even for a $3,000 sub, even if it only loses 20%, I'd lose $600 per sub.

If another brand loses 30%, but has a lower cost, or I can find a deal on it, I will lose much less.

As far as Looks:
In this room, the subs cannot be "hidden away". So that is a factor. I've never liked how the JTR subs look. However, I also don't really like how the Monolith subs look either. SVS wins in this department, but I'm open to others.



My considerations:
  • Top-notch SQ for my 20x10 room.
  • Exceptional SPL (not necessary to rattle my teeth or blur my vision, at least for now)
  • Good looks in the room (These cannot be hidden)
  • Acceptable loss of resale value
 
Landmonster

Landmonster

Audioholic
One idea:


For this room, how would a JTR RS2 be, set on its side?

1609615153705.png


I could build a custom enclosure to sit over it, to set my center channel speaker on below my screen or TV.

This would be directly facing the front seats. I know this is probably less than desirable compared to 2 subs in different locations, but this at least provides you, 2 drivers, for a substantially lower cost.

Is this a bad idea for this room?
Good idea/bad idea?

I could add a 2nd one later, but I'm not sure where it would go.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
Another keen option would be the SVS PC-4000. https://www.svsound.com/products/pc-4000

I've never known anyone with these, so I have no idea how they compare to traditional subs. I could probably get 4 of them in that room, in each corner.
They compare exactly the same. They actually have .5db more extension. That’s not worth mentioning really, but they’re the same performance wise. Plus IMO they look better. 2/3 of my subs are pc12pluses, older siblings to the pc4000. I think I mentioned the pcm earlier and for floor space(and arguably looks) they’re hard to beat.
 
Truthslayer

Truthslayer

Full Audioholic
These are all very good points.

I'm a big "money saver guy", and I hate buying things that take a huge hit on resale value. That is the main reason I picked my Polk LSiMs... not because they are "World's greatest no-holds-barred speakers", but they were an exceptional value, and I like their look. They do sound very good to me... even better on exceptional source material.

As far as sub resale value:
I've heard it go both ways on this.... some have said that JTR speakers/subs retain the resale value, because they are built like tanks. However, even for a $3,000 sub, even if it only loses 20%, I'd lose $600 per sub.

If another brand loses 30%, but has a lower cost, or I can find a deal on it, I will lose much less.

As far as Looks:
In this room, the subs cannot be "hidden away". So that is a factor. I've never liked how the JTR subs look. However, I also don't really like how the Monolith subs look either. SVS wins in this department, but I'm open to others.



My considerations:
  • Top-notch SQ for my 20x10 room.
  • Exceptional SPL (not necessary to rattle my teeth or blur my vision, at least for now)
  • Good looks in the room (These cannot be hidden)
  • Acceptable loss of resale value
Ok, first off, the monoliths look way better in person. They dont have that plain old square box look. My gal and i both prefer their look vs our other subs.
If you get 4 monolith 10's or 12's you will have exceptional spl. Exceptional sound quality and exceptional savings on the wallet. ( i think even just two will surprise you )

So everyone has given you lots of info, now it just boils down to what you want to spend or over spend. :)
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Spartan
OK. Snark aside. ;)

I know I've warned before that you need to pay more attention to placement for a successful set up. Re: a single sub smack dab in the middle of the front wall, regardless of the power... This could be the absolute worst acoustically performing spot in the room.
You won't know until it is too late.

I would highly recommend doing the subwoofer crawl with something... anything... once you get into that room. Identify the best places where the subs will perform for your listening position. This will guarantee you a leg up on final set-up and getting the most performance from your rig. :)
 
Landmonster

Landmonster

Audioholic
OMFG. Why didn't the rest of us ever recommend that?!

Oh... we did.

:p
Yes I know you mentioned these. I do wonder about 3 things:


  1. Resale value, if they are not a popular look (Will anyone want to buy them used?)
  2. SQ vs traditional boxed subs (why are all the top-end subs boxes?)
  3. Cat-scratching-post threat? (It looks like a fabric-covered pole... my cats could destroy those in a week if I am unlucky. )
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Spartan
1: Most good quality subwoofers are in a niche market. These are not everyday household items and likely never will be. If you are buying something in hopes of flipping it.... That's just not a market I've played with, and I think you have to be prepared that they will not be worth to another person what you may want them to be.

In other words, buy subwoofers now that you are prepared to keep for 10+ years and which may perform in a larger room if pressed into different duty.

2: There is no concern over SQ. As has been said before, these SVS PCs actually perform slightly better in some regards.
Boxes are more conventional, easier to model, and easy to build en masse. Many DIYers do build SonoTube Subs. They have advantages in being lighter, less resonant, not having standing waves inside them.
If I had to guess, the cost from SVS represents a lower build volume and sales volume. Economy of scale. Not dissimilar to the PrePro issue.

3: As a cat partner myself, all I can say is that you need to keep them entertained in a healthy manner. If they are provided toys and places to be themselves, they will likely leave these alone. If they "act out" and routinely destroy things around your home, there is likely a breakdown somewhere in their needs.
Our Cats don't even go near my gear. It's not interesting to them. I supply them with more enjoyable places to hang out in my room.
Could it be a concern? Sure. I think I recall a post by a DefTech owner whose Cat shredded one of his BPs. I suspect the Cat was more pointing out the SQ sucked and found the speaker otherwise offensive, rather than it was just destroying a speaker. :p But again, and more to the point, the Cat likely was in a home where its needs were not being addressed in a healthy and supporting manner.
 
Truthslayer

Truthslayer

Full Audioholic
Yes I know you mentioned these. I do wonder about 3 things:


  1. Resale value, if they are not a popular look (Will anyone want to buy them used?)
  2. SQ vs traditional boxed subs (why are all the top-end subs boxes?)
  3. Cat-scratching-post threat? (It looks like a fabric-covered pole... my cats could destroy those in a week if I am unlucky. )
Well you could always get rid of the cats :oops:
On a serious note, take a few days or a week. Mull over your options before pulling the trigger. As has been stated here a few times, all of the subs mentioned in the thread you should be more than satisfied with.
Good Luck, let us now what you end up with.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
1: Most good quality subwoofers are in a niche market. These are not everyday household items and likely never will be. If you are buying something in hopes of flipping it.... That's just not a market I've played with, and I think you have to be prepared that they will not be worth to another person what you may want them to be.

In other words, buy subwoofers now that you are prepared to keep for 10+ years and which may perform in a larger room if pressed into different duty.

2: There is no concern over SQ. As has been said before, these SVS PCs actually perform slightly better in some regards.
Boxes are more conventional, easier to model, and easy to build en masse. Many DIYers do build SonoTube Subs. They have advantages in being lighter, less resonant, not having standing waves inside them.
If I had to guess, the cost from SVS represents a lower build volume and sales volume. Economy of scale. Not dissimilar to the PrePro issue.
If you know where to sell them, these kind of subs can move pretty fast. SVS, Hsu, Rythmik are saught-after brands in the audio market. They may not sell that great on craigslist (except for maybe SVS now), but try classifieds in any audio marketplace (like our own classified section), and if the price is not stupid high, they will not last long.

As for cylinder subs, I wouldn't be so sure they are less resonant. Everything has a resonant frequency. They also may have less of a problem with standing waves on a horizontal plane, but not on the vertical axis.
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
If you get 4 monolith 10's

So everyone has given you lots of info, now it just boils down to what you want to spend or over spend. :)
You've mentioned these Monolith 10's several times in this single thread.

All I have to say is FUCKKKK that.

10' subs might have a place in small or budget systems. But the OP's room (narrow) but not small, and budget calls for, lets just say - BIG BOY SUBS
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
You've mentioned these Monolith 10's several times in this single thread.

All I have to say is FUCKKKK that.

10' subs might have a place in small or budget systems. But the OP's room (narrow) but not small, and budget calls for, lets just say - BIG BOY SUBS
Four of those Monolith 10"s can get the OP better sound quality than one or two big subs, and will still get pretty loud. Take a look at the Monolith 10 review, take the measurements and add 12dB to that for a 4x sub system. That is pretty loud.
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
Take a look at the Monolith 10 review, take the measurements and add 12dB to that for a 4x sub system. That is pretty loud.
I understand I know all about the reviews

FUCKKKK THAT!!! LOL

4-
Mono 12's
SVS PB-2000's
HSU's
PSA's

But I can't do 10's Just Can't
 
Truthslayer

Truthslayer

Full Audioholic
You've mentioned these Monolith 10's several times in this single thread.

All I have to say is FUCKKKK that.

10' subs might have a place in small or budget systems. But the OP's room (narrow) but not small, and budget calls for, lets just say - BIG BOY SUBS
Yes i mentioned them because, the op doesn't listen that loud, they get over looked ( i was also guilty of that), they sound great, and finally they are priced well. What it will cost for four vs two of the others and performance, isn't to hard to figure out why it's a good option.

Four of those Monolith 10"s can get the OP better sound quality than one or two big subs, and will still get pretty loud. Take a look at the Monolith 10 review, take the measurements and add 12dB to that for a 4x sub system. That is pretty loud.
You couldn't be more on point with your assessment. I think people tend to overlook them because they have not produced quality subs in the past. However the Monolith's compete very favorable with most any of the top name brands. The OP would be shocked what four of those 10's would do in his room. Plus he would save some money doing it.
But i don't get offended when people diss the Monolith's, I might have been the same way until i tried them. To be honest, had i not got them for $600 for the pair, i may have never tried them. Anyways glad i did.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
Yes I know you mentioned these. I do wonder about 3 things:


  1. Resale value, if they are not a popular look (Will anyone want to buy them used?)
  2. SQ vs traditional boxed subs (why are all the top-end subs boxes?)
  3. Cat-scratching-post threat? (It looks like a fabric-covered pole... my cats could destroy those in a week if I am unlucky. )
Not sure if I’m on your ignore list?
The SQ issue as I mentioned before is not a thing to be worried about. They perform exactly the same.
Why exactly are you concerned with resale?
As ryan said, keep your cats busy sheikh the proper toys and you shouldn’t have a problem. Like i said before 2/3 of my subs are pc12pluses. I’ve had 3 cats exposed to my subs and the couldn’t have cared less. Imo, they look like scratching posts to humans, but I don’t they do to cats.
 
Landmonster

Landmonster

Audioholic
Not sure if I’m on your ignore list?
The SQ issue as I mentioned before is not a thing to be worried about. They perform exactly the same.
Why exactly are you concerned with resale?
As ryan said, keep your cats busy sheikh the proper toys and you shouldn’t have a problem. Like i said before 2/3 of my subs are pc12pluses. I’ve had 3 cats exposed to my subs and the couldn’t have cared less. Imo, they look like scratching posts to humans, but I don’t they do to cats.
*I don't have anyone on /ignore.

*I don't know, I've always chased low-distortion in audio. It seems like one of the main goals. I was just looking at linear distortion charts from reviews on these various subs

*Everything I have is for sale at all times, or will be sold. I don't like losing money on hobby-things. :)

*I'm not totally against the PC series. It's just unusual, and I have to wonder why they aren't more mainstream. How would the PB-4000 stack up directly against the PC-4000 in the same room?
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
*I'm not totally against the PC series. It's just unusual, and I have to wonder why they aren't more mainstream.
How would the PB-4000 stack up directly against the PC-4000 in the same room?
If I'm correct the PC version was the original version and were very popular in the beginnings I've SVS
And again if I'm correct the performances are almost identical
 
Landmonster

Landmonster

Audioholic
I understand I know all about the reviews

FUCKKKK THAT!!! LOL

4-
Mono 12's
SVS PB-2000's
HSU's
PSA's

But I can't do 10's Just Can't

1609636237881.png


How about 4 HSU VTF-15 Mk2 ?

4 PB-4000 or 4 PC-4000 would be pretty epic... but that's $8,000+. A fair comparison would be 4 of the HSUs vs 2 of the SVS-4000s.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
*I don't have anyone on /ignore.

*I don't know, I've always chased low-distortion in audio. It seems like one of the main goals. I was just looking at linear distortion charts from reviews on these various subs

*Everything I have is for sale at all times, or will be sold. I don't like losing money on hobby-things. :)

*I'm not totally against the PC series. It's just unusual, and I have to wonder why they aren't more mainstream. How would the PB-4000 stack up directly against the PC-4000 in the same room?
It would stack up exactly the same. Ed has said sometime in the past that the PC has like .5db more extension(infinitesimal) due to cabinet volume. In real use, they’re the same exact sub.
 

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