Chasing Lance in HD

[Buckeyefan 1]

Discovery HD Channel.

Has anyone seen this? I watched it this evening. It seemed to be on for hours. I was glued to the tv. The picture and sound were amazing. What was more amazing was learning how and why Lance wins the way he does.

From what I saw, it had less to do with the hardware, and more to do with geneology and body chemistry.

The Discovery Channel said his body puts out something like 500 watts of power, whereas a healthy 20 yr old puts out 200 watts (I wonder what his thd is ). His heart can pump 9 gallons of blood per minute, whereas the top cyclists heart pumps 5 gallons per minute. His body produces no where near the lactic acid other athletes bodies produce. This acid apparently is what shuts down muscles when driven too hard.

I also had no idea his cancer spread to his lungs and brain. His doctors had practically written him off. What an amazing comeback.

What a superb documentary by Discovery. I'd urge everyone to watch it in HD next time its on.

 

[furrycute]

You mean that the discovery channel claims that Lance Armstrong is 2x the superhuman compared to a normal human?

Well, physical training can certainly increase a person's cardiac stroke volume substantially beyond the 5 liter normal limit (but as to how much higher, I have no idea).

Lactic acid is a by product of anaerobic metabolism. That is the metabolism your body engages when your blood does not carry enough oxygen to meet the energy burning demands of your muscles. Again physical training can increase your lungs' vital capacity (you learn to take in deeper breaths, and breathe out longer). But again I have no idea how much that can be increased.


So I think Lance Armstrong's physiology is probably 80% attributable to his physical training, and only 20% to genetics (or maybe I'm completely wrong).


The key to verify if it is genetics or physical training is to note if any of Lance's ancestors have been outstanding atheletes, or any of his children are exceptional in any form of sports. That should tell you if Lance really has those special "sports" genes.

 

[mustang_steve]

I'm a pretty active cyclist so here we go:

Lactic acid is what makes your muscles burn when you work out too hard. It also maikes them swell, as well as also reduce power output. Now, as you work out more, your threshold for lactic acid goes up. I know for me I actually get exhausted before my legs give out anymore.

As for where lactic acid builds is another thing...there are two schools of cycling, spinning and mashing.

Mashing is what most bike riders do...just push down on the most forward pedal. This is grossly inefficiant.

Spinning is where you use either toe clips or clipless pedals (think ski bindings when thinking of clipless pedals), which allow for you to also tranfer power to the pedals moving up, and even front and back when using clipless. Spinning is also done at far higher RPMs than mashing. I spin around 70rpm for most terrain, and reach up into the 100-105rpm range when sprinting.

Basically Lance was an exceptional athlete way before his stint with cancer. He actually had a mountain bike history beforehand. Some of that skill shows the few times he has taken his roadbike off-roading

Pretty much any pro cyclist is just obscene in power, endurance, and reflexes. Eddie Merckx, who is quite possibly the greatest cyclist of all time, is still a prime example of this...he's 60 now and still one heck of a cyclist. He also posesses more records than any other cyclist in history, even after Lance broke some of his. These guys are pretty much all genetics.

BTW Lance was also the guy who made high-rpm spinning popular...until him, most roadies spun at 50-60rpm.

The bike doesn't make much difference at all. So long as it can effectively get the power to the road, and is reliable, it's good enough to race on. That won't stop racers from experimenting though to get whatever gain they can

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

They also talked about the bikes. Amazing technology (at least to me). The time trial bikes are beautiful. The uphill bikes are something like 100 grams lighter (which amounts to 100 paperclips-does that make sense?), and somehow make all the difference in the world. A rep for Trek picked up a new frame and said the carbon fiber body weighs about what the latest paperback does . I think it's neat how they vary the strength in the carbon fiber to save weight. They say it's only thickest in the areas it needs to be.

Time to ditch the 4 mountain bikes for a new road bike.

 

[furrycute]

A bike frame as light as a paperback? Man I wonder how much weight that frame can take. You need to be a mean and lean cyclist to ride that frame.

 

[racquetman]

lactic acid gets a bad reputation

Your thinking on lactic acid is what you were taught many years ago. As with many chemicals in the body, lactic acid has been poorly understood until recently (if you believe what is being said now is accurate).

Lactic acid doesn't make your muscles sore. That is an old myth that has been put to rest. If you would like to understand more about the role of lactic acid in the body, read here (or do your own search):

http://www.cytosport.com/science/lacticacid.html

By the way, Lance Armstrong was known for his skills as a triathlon participant in his young days (early teens). He would often outcompete those twice his age.

 

[furrycute]

Well, I just read the first few chapters of that link. Regardless of how outdated our old conception of lactic acid is, it is still a fact that lactic acid is a by product of anaerobic metabolism.


Your body can generate energy in one of two ways,

1) aerobic metabolism
2) anaerobic metabolism


If your circulation can provide enough oxygen, your body will rely on aerobic metabolism, which produces far more energy and is much more efficient forms of energy burning (you wont get sore).


If your circulation can't provide enough oxygen (as in the case of during prolonged exercise), your body then engages in anaerobic metabolism. Anaerobic metabolism is very inefficient, produces far less energy than option 1. And produces lactic acid as a by-product.


Now I'm a bit fuzzy on how lactic acid is recycled, but I seem to remember that lactic acid is sent to the liver, resynthesized into glucose (don't quote me on this), and get sent back to the muscles.




Regardless of body's response to lactic acid. If your body engages in anaerobic metabolism, then it is in BAD shape, which means you need to stop and give it a rest.

 

[racquetman]

Now I'm a bit fuzzy on how lactic acid is recycled, but I seem to remember that lactic acid is sent to the liver, resynthesized into glucose (don't quote me on this), and get sent back to the muscles.

We've turned this into a biochemistry thread. Yeehaw!! I realize I'm probably the only one excited.

Lactic acid is bad terminology by the way. I don't know why people ever started calling it lactic acid (probably some media idiot started the whole thing), but lactic acid exists as lactate in the body. The pH of your body is such that it can't exist as lactic acid.

Excess lactate is thought to be converted to liver glycogen. Nothing is stored as glucose. Sorry, didn't mean to quote you

 

[Duffinator]

I guess that counts me out, at 200lbs..

Not a problem. I'm just over 200 lbs and it's not an issue with my sub 19 pound titanium bike. (my bike is heavy by pro standards). The key is to get out and ride and not worry about the tech of it all. Lance is an amazing athlete and like someone already mentioned was before he had cancer. He won a stage of the TDF and was touted as the next great cyclist before he got sick.

I like Lance but I'm not his biggest fan. Eddy Merckx is the greatest cyclist of all time but many Americans are new to the sport and have little knowledge of it's history. I'm a bigger fan of Greg Lemond, who was the first American to win the TDF and won three in all, two after being shot with a shotgun. It would be interesting to see Greg in his prime race a time trial against Lance in his prime. It would be a very close race. I might get a chance to see Lance this Sunday at the San Francisco Grand Prix. He has raced it for the past several years and may just make one last appearance.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

The pH of your body is such that it can't exist as lactic acid.

I'll really throw this thread for a tangent...
Has anyone read that cancer can't survive in a high pH environment? Check this out:
http://www.mwt.net/~drbrewer/highpH.htm

I'm a big believer in hydrogen peroxide and it's positive effects on the body. We've given our kids (as well as ourselves) drops of H2O2 in the ear on the onset of a cold. It's been years since anyone's had a cold in the family. We never buy cold medication.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=hydrogen+peroxide+cold+cure

 

[brian32672]

Not a problem. I'm just over 200 lbs and it's not an issue with my sub 19 pound titanium bike.

Yeah, I was kinda kidding Duff. Actually with my disability, it is almost impossible for me to ride a bike...
EDIT:: However I am 200lbs.. I waver from 195 to 205. And I'm only 5' 7" compared to your 6'2"
I know. heavy beer gut...LOL
EDIT #2:: BTW, I am going to the fridge for another beer.. I'm serious..

 

[Duffinator]

Yeah, I was kinda kidding Duff. Actually with my disability, it is almost impossible for me to ride a bike...
EDIT:: However I am 200lbs.. I waver from 195 to 205. And I'm only 5' 7" compared to your 6'2"
I know. heavy beer gut...LOL
EDIT #2:: BTW, I am going to the fridge for another beer.. I'm serious..

I was wondering about that. I think I'll join you with a Corona.

 

[furrycute]

Hydrogen peroxide is not exactly benign, actually it's a pretty potent oxidant. Your body wont tolerate it in excess amounts.

Some kids get otitis media with cold. I guess you can clean that out with hydrogen peroxide. But I wouldn't advise you ingesting hydrogen peroxide.


And you can kill cancer cells in a number of ways, common household bleach will kill it. But the problem is, bleach will also kill the rest of surrounding healthy tissues, or any other tissues along its path of incursion into your body.

So it's not that we don't know how to kill cancer cells. It is that we don't know how to kill cancer cells while keeping a reasonable amount of healthy cells alive. That's the tricky part about fighting cancer.


And by the way, your common household cleaning agents are much more effective than those chemotherapeutic agents doctors give to treat cancer. But those househould cleaning agents are also more effective at killing "you."

I'll really throw this thread for a tangent...
Has anyone read that cancer can't survive in a high pH environment? Check this out:
http://www.mwt.net/~drbrewer/highpH.htm

I'm a big believer in hydrogen peroxide and it's positive effects on the body. We've given our kids (as well as ourselves) drops of H2O2 in the ear on the onset of a cold. It's been years since anyone's had a cold in the family. We never buy cold medication.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=hydrogen+peroxide+cold+cure

 

[brian32672]

So it's not that we don't know how to kill cancer cells. It is that we don't know how to kill cancer cells while keeping a reasonable amount of healthy cells alive. That's the tricky part about fighting cancer.

Good post furry. Also does anyone here do folding at home?
EDIT::: Here http://folding.stanford.edu/

EDIT#2::
"Our goal: to understand protein folding, protein aggregation, and related diseases

What are proteins and why do they "fold"? Proteins are biology's workhorses -- its "nanomachines." Before proteins can carry out their biochemical function, they remarkably assemble themselves, or "fold." The process of protein folding, while critical and fundamental to virtually all of biology, remains a mystery. Moreover, perhaps not surprisingly, when proteins do not fold correctly (i.e. "misfold"), there can be serious effects, including many well known diseases, such as Alzheimer's, Mad Cow (BSE), CJD, ALS, Huntington's, Parkinson's disease, and many cancers and cancer-related syndromes."

 

[racquetman]

I'll really throw this thread for a tangent...
Has anyone read that cancer can't survive in a high pH environment? Check this out:
http://www.mwt.net/~drbrewer/highpH.htm

I'm a big believer in hydrogen peroxide and it's positive effects on the body. We've given our kids (as well as ourselves) drops of H2O2 in the ear on the onset of a cold. It's been years since anyone's had a cold in the family. We never buy cold medication.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=hydrogen+peroxide+cold+cure

That was an interesting read, Buckeyefan 1.

I had heard that everyone who has cancer has a body pH that is on the acidic side of neutral. I'm not sure if the cancer is supposed to thrive under these conditions, or if these conditions exist because of the cancer (chicken or the egg type of argument).

 

[racquetman]

Hydrogen peroxide is not exactly benign, actually it's a pretty potent oxidant. Your body wont tolerate it in excess amounts

Depends on the concentration. No one is going to be using 100% peroxide on any part of their body. However, you could pore a whole bottle of 3% peroxide over an open wound all day and it wouldn't hurt you. 3% is approved as a mouth wash concentration which means it must be okay to ingest.

 

[brian32672]

Depends on the concentration. No one is going to be using 100% peroxide on any part of their body. However, you could pore a whole bottle of 3% peroxide over an open wound all day and it wouldn't hurt you. 3% is approved as a mouth wash concentration which means it must be okay to ingest.

I'm sure he knew this Alan. But damn, have you guys ever used HP for mouth wash. I have, and its worse than Listerine. IMO.

 

[furrycute]

Hydrogen peroxide as a mouth wash? Yuck. Well actually I've never tasted it. But I've made it a habbit to never put anything that I see in a lab into my mouth. (aside from H2O and a couple of others which I can't think of right now, of course)

 

[brian32672]

But I've made it a habbit to never put anything that I see in a lab into my mouth. (aside from H2O and a couple of others which I can't think of right now, of course)

Uhmm, just about everything goes through a lab before the FDA approves it...
Specially anything that comes from Listerine.

 

[majorloser]

But I've made it a habbit to never put anything that I see in a lab into my mouth. (aside from H2O and a couple of others which I can't think of right now, of course)

I guess you've never seen any hot lab chicks? Lab coats, glasses and hair up............nuff said. Now I have to go back into the lab!