S

Sound22Card

Audiophyte
Thanks for the add, folks.
My ?uestion: What are the advantages of a transmission line speaker with ever widening channels, as opposed to the channels being of parallel walls?
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Have never studied TL speakers, but I expect parallel walls would result in cancellation.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Thanks for the add, folks.
My ?uestion: What are the advantages of a transmission line speaker with ever widening channels, as opposed to the channels being of parallel walls?
The reason is that it broadens the frequencies over which the driver is supported and therefore the port output has a broader range of frequencies and lower Q. A TL speaker is a very specialized version of the Gadeckt organ pipe. The differences are.

1). It is tapered, most often 3:1 unlike an organ pipe you you want a specific frequency plus harmonics, which in Gadeckt pipes are the odd and not even harmonics. The taper is reverse unlike a bassoon say. So the widest point is the stopped closed end. The narrowest part is the opening or mouth. There are various variable tapers, and end correction schemes, but the hard facts show these not to be improvements but detrimental. I strongly advise a linear taper. The pipe is also folded to prevent HF radiation from the open end.

2). The point at which the pipe is excited (driver placement) is designed to minimize and not maximize generation of the odd harmonics which in a speaker is odd harmonic distortion.

3). The port output is critically damped, but not enough to prevent driver assist. This together with the taper lowers the system Q. This results in a broader based output of lower amplitude. That is the very definition of low Q. An organ pipe requires high Q.

Now in a stopped pipe, which is what the Gadeckt stop is, you have zero displacement of air at the stopped (closed) end, obviously. In any acoustic pipe be it stopped or open air pressure and air displacement are 180 degrees out of phase. So at the stopped end pressure changes are maximal, whereas at the open end, there are zero pressure changes, but maximal air displacement. So driver placement is at the anti node of the third harmonic, as the intensity of the harmonics decreases with their frequency. That is why the driver is not placed right at the closed end of the pipe, but at the location where there is still very high pressure and control of driver/cone displacement.

Now the recent contributions in math, experiment and modelling (Auspergerer et al) have shown in a speaker, matching not only length with Fs to be important to get Fp, but also matching volume of the pipe Vp to the driver VAS. This understanding has virtually eliminated the possibility of getting a dud design if you do your design correctly.

Now the damping is crucial. The new models show the damping should be evenly spaced throughout the pipe but stop about 6" or so from the open end.

An undamped pipe will have 2 peaks of impedance on the driver impedance curve, just like a standard ported Qb4 box. Roll off is fourth order 24 db per octave just like a Qb4 box.

Damping is added to the pipe to just suppress one peak of impedance. Roll off then becomes second order 12 db per octave just like a sealed Qb2 box. However unlike a sealed box F3 is extended and close to Fs of the driver and not much higher than Fs whereas it is much higher in a sealed alignment. The relatively recent improved models, also calculate the correct weight of a wide variety of damping materials.

So the whole point of all this is to build a speaker with extended deep bass with shallow 12 db per octave roll off that is low Q and non resonant. If you use a driver with Qts in the 0.35 to 0.4 range, which is the sweet spot, you end up with an optimal Qtc around 0.5.

The end result is a speaker with very accurate deep non resonant bass that encircles the room, as only pipes can. The result is a bass that is phenomenally real, producing absolutely uncolored and perfect bass registers of pianos, organs tympani and the bass winds and also the deeper ranges of the human voice.

A properly designed TL gives by far the most accurate bass of any method of loudspeaker loading I know. Properly done the bass detail and accurate articulation is truly astonishing. These speakers are in a total class of their own in terms of accurate uncolored bass.

In recent times most TLs commercially produced have been mass loaded with the pipe exiting via a tuned ported chamber. This reduces speaker size but gives up most of the advantages of traditional TL design I feel.
These designs have two peaks of impedance to the driver impedance curve and roll off at 24 db per octave just like a Qb4 box. So I regard these designs as essentially modified Qb4 designs. They do lower Q some and extend F3 a little. They are not the true deal however and their impedance curve and roll off point to that.
 
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Johnny2Bad

Johnny2Bad

Audioholic Chief
Excellent post, TLS Guy. All I would add is I concur that Transmission Line loudspeakers do offer excellent performance from a HiFi perspective (ie music). They are not common today but were popular in the past. Properly done, they exhibit some of the better qualities of a horn without the drawbacks (including low power requirements).

The cost of the enclosure manufacturing (and weight of all that material) is a drawback and isn't offset by the slightly lower cost of LF drivers they can employ, and is partly responsible for the reduced popularity. More popular in the UK than North America. A popular commercial variant were those sold by IMF (the initials of I. M. "Bud" Fried, a notable audio designer). There were DIY plans back in the day using KEF drivers. Another famous TL loaded speaker was the B&W Nautilus.
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Excellent post, TLS Guy. All I would add is I concur that Transmission Line loudspeakers do offer excellent performance from a HiFi perspective (ie music). They are not common today but were popular in the past. Properly done, they exhibit some of the better qualities of a horn without the drawbacks (including low power requirements).

The cost of the enclosure manufacturing (and weight of all that material) is a drawback and isn't offset by the slightly lower cost of LF drivers they can employ, and is partly responsible for the reduced popularity. More popular in the UK than North America. A popular commercial variant were those sold by IMF (the initials of I. M. "Bud" Fried, a notable audio designer). There were DIY plans back in the day using KEF drivers. Another famous TL loaded speaker was the B&W Nautilus.
Thank you for that kind post.

Unfortunately there has not been a really good TL with extended bass, like the ones I currently enjoy. The life of the TDL dual line was brief, due to the untimely death of John Wright. Even so the drivers were just not there then to allow down to 20 Hz performance.

PMC are the current exponents. However I can't really recommend them. The FR curves are not the best and worst the impedance curves that have been measured show that they are not competently designed.

This is what I'm talking about.

PMC





That is the PMC GB1 and the PMC 24 respectively.

That is not how they should look.

They are not only good for music but also the HT/movie environment. For one thing they have clear natural speech especially the lower register of the voice which makes for excellent speech discrimination. The bass effects are quite amazing and very powerful. Common comments are that this "this rig really kicks you on the ass". Certainly absolutely no need for but kickers in the chairs!

An how I have to leave here now for a meeting in the Cities at 2:00 PM. More about all this to follow, but we have a agreement for sale of this home closing April 30 2019. We are about to start an ICF home build imminently in Eagan MN and will of course sell our second home in due course. So Walberswick Studios will be on he move. So I now have to build a new studio.

Last year's hip episode showed me that I could not run this place if a permanent medical issue were to ensue. So I feel I have a window to get out of here, and put together a place that is comfortable for us and is designed for nursing home avoidance. So a busy time coming up.
 
Johnny2Bad

Johnny2Bad

Audioholic Chief
I can empathize with your health issues, I have had my own (since the fall of 2013, I've spent a total of 14 months in hospital). I'm at home now and am recovering slowly, but I will never be the same as my pre-2013 self.

I know Eagan well. I worked in MPLS every winter during the 1990's.

Like any loudspeaker with good low bass extension, I have no doubts a TL could sound good in a HT application (that is, while watching movies / TV / music video) but the nature of movie sound is not to be accurate, moreso to "paint a picture" with sound. In that respect a LF system that works well for movies may not work well for music, and vice versa. But there are exceptions, especially when it comes to superb examples.
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Sorry to hear of your problems. I'm doing pretty well right now, but I will be 72 in four months or so.
As I used to tell my patients, especially to answer the "why me" when serious illness struck. My reply was always: - "Well everybody gets something." Which is just one way of saying that the gift of birth and life, always entails death. The road is different for all. So this move is getting organized and as far as practical a pivotal and core part of the design, is nursing home avoidance.

Anyhow I don't believe the demands of music to be in conflict with HT in any way. I do believe that compromised speakers play favorites.

The fact is this this speaker system excels with chamber music solo instrumental music, the spoken and sung human voice, huge choirs accompanied by large orchestras and organs with massive resources. Actually the cinema is child's play in comparison to a lot of that.

My wife is much more into the movie scene than I am. But the neutrality of the TLs makes speech entirely natural and helps tell the story. Cinema is story telling, and natural human speech is the most important attribute of a cinema system. Natural reproduction of the background music is very important. If the system has power and reserve on top of all that coupled with extended frequency response then the effects will fall into place. I can assure you that I'm yet to hear a Hollywood effect not delivered with the devastating intent of the producers, with zero adverse effects or complaints from the system. But I honestly believe that other issues I raise take precedence over the effects from the LFE channel.
 
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