Center channel opinions/recommendations needed.

Happy Joe

Happy Joe

Junior Audioholic
Main speakers; Polk R700
AVR; Denon x3800h (with a crown XLI-800 to give the mains a bit of extra power and help relieve the demand on the 3800's power supply)
currently looking to go to 7.1 channels
Current center Klipsch R34-c
Perceived problem; dialog muddy.
program mix; ~80/20 %. movies/music

I tried a Polk ES35 center (similar dialogue issue)
Online research indicates that a high quality 3 way center channel speaker may help.
I'm leaning toward the SVS ultra evolution center channel speaker... The Polk r700s have soured me on pinnacle tweeters, too bright and too many spurious reflections (largely solved with a pair of sound absorbing foam wall panels... I'm not a big Polk fan and may replace the main speakers with something better in the future).

Any advice or opinions are welcome...

Enjoy!
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Main speakers; Polk R700
AVR; Denon x3800h (with a crown XLI-800 to give the mains a bit of extra power and help relieve the demand on the 3800's power supply)
currently looking to go to 7.1 channels
Current center Klipsch R34-c
Perceived problem; dialog muddy.
program mix; ~80/20 %. movies/music

I tried a Polk ES35 center (similar dialogue issue)
Online research indicates that a high quality 3 way center channel speaker may help.
I'm leaning toward the SVS ultra evolution center channel speaker... The Polk r700s have soured me on pinnacle tweeters, too bright and too many spurious reflections (largely solved with a pair of sound absorbing foam wall panels... I'm not a big Polk fan and may replace the main speakers with something better in the future).

Any advice or opinions are welcome...

Enjoy!
If you are planning on replacing your MAIN towers, then I think it’s best to wait and replace the entire system (or at least the main 3 front speakers) at the same time.
 
Happy Joe

Happy Joe

Junior Audioholic
If you are planning on replacing your MAIN towers, then I think it’s best to wait and replace the entire system (or at least the main 3 front speakers) at the same time.
I agree, however the discretionary funding is a bit short right now and I kind of like the SVS ultra Evolution series as a potential upgrade. I figure that the center speaker may be a good place to start the upgrade while potentially reducing the indistinct dialogue problem.

Enjoy!
 
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Eppie

Eppie

Audioholic Ninja
Agree with the above that if you're not happy with the Polks then consider all three to match them up properly.

I'm surprised that you find the R700 bright. ShadyJ's measurements show them to be a very neutral speaker.


If you're sensitive to the upper band then maybe look for speakers that roll off a bit at the top end. Since you're in the U.S. you can try SVS and Arendal speakers in home with free return shipping. You should be able to demo KEF locally. They tend to perform well in the mid-band where vocals are.

I find the Philharmonic Audio speakers very neutral and easy on the ears. They are internet direct but sometimes you can find someone in your area that owns a pair and would let you listen to them. The HT Tower and Center would be a big jump up from the R700 but the BMR Monitors are affordable and work great with a sub. A 3rd one can be used as a horizontal center if you rotate the tweeter 90'.
 
Happy Joe

Happy Joe

Junior Audioholic
... I am a bit sensitive to high frequencies (when I was living in the Chicago area the ultrasonic alarms in the Field museum gem room made it a real ordeal to enter).

The above review (along with others) was a important influence on my decision to get the r700 speakers; they also were the closest sounding speakers to my destroyed NHT 2.5i speakers.
When I first got the r700s my overall impression was enhhh... good enough; not much to seriously complain about (I figured on some physical room optimization) ...nothing spectacular; and was right.
... they took a very long time to break in, IMO.

I'll definitely look at an in home trial of the SVS.
Thanks for the recommendations...

Enjoy
 
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Matt34

Matt34

Moderator
The Kef Q6 meta is probably the best under $1000 center channel I've heard. The Ascends Acoustics CMT340SE2 is very good for a 2way and if your MLP is within +-15 degrees you're not giving up much to the Q6. The Dynaudio Emit C25 was surprisingly good as well for as small as it is. Had a more full sound than the Ascend and warmer/smoother in the mids.

Buy once, cry once suggestion, Ascend Acoustics Horizon with the dome tweeter. (If you have the space for it.)
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Thanx! I'll see if I can find one to audition, locally; I have always liked KEF speakers ; they always sounded smooth to me...

Enjoy!
You are not alone. I have to ask. How does your rig sound without a center channel? I ask as I have come to the conclusion a lot of centers do more harm than good.

The center speaker is the hardest speaker of all to design properly in my view. I think most are thrown together without much thought and the results sound like it.

The secret of a good center is non resonant bass and above all acoustic coherency.

The ideal arrangement for a center in my view is one based around a good coaxial driver.
That is what I designed in my AV room. That is why KEF is a good choice.

The next best solution is a three way with tweeter above the mid. However there is a caveat, for optimal results the mid needs to cover the whole speech discrimination band. That means a crossover at 400 Hz and 3.5KHz or better 4KHz. Unfortunately mids that can do that, are far and few between. My center in the great room does that using a Morel Mid that can meet my specification.

We now have good dome mids available from Madisound who can supply the VOLT dome midranges from the UK.

My family room system has no center, but the speakers use the Dynaudio D76 unfortunately NLA with cross at 400Hz and 4KHz. All of the systems have clear natural speech and I have never had to boost the center on the two systems with centers.

One last observation is the the great room system with the speakers fairly close together sounds virtually identical whether the center is used or just right and left. I have blind tested my wife and she can tell no difference whatsoever.

The reason for such widespread poor performance of centers is a sever lack of coaxial and good midrange drivers to choose from. In addition a horizontal MTM is a non starter in my view and will always be way sub optimal.
 
Happy Joe

Happy Joe

Junior Audioholic
You are not alone. I have to ask. How does your rig sound without a center channel? I ask as I have come to the conclusion a lot of centers do more harm than good.

The center speaker is the hardest speaker of all to design properly in my view. I think most are thrown together without much thought and the results sound like it.

The secret of a good center is non resonant bass and above all acoustic coherency.

The ideal arrangement for a center in my view is one based around a good coaxial driver.
That is what I designed in my AV room. That is why KEF is a good choice.

The next best solution is a three way with tweeter above the mid. However there is a caveat, for optimal results the mid needs to cover the whole speech discrimination band. That means a crossover at 400 Hz and 3.5KHz or better 4KHz. Unfortunately mids that can do that, are far and few between. My center in the great room does that using a Morel Mid that can meet my specification.

We now have good dome mids available from Madisound who can supply the VOLT dome midranges from the UK.

My family room system has no center, but the speakers use the Dynaudio D76 unfortunately NLA with cross at 400Hz and 4KHz. All of the systems have clear natural speech and I have never had to boost the center on the two systems with centers.

One last observation is the the great room system with the speakers fairly close together sounds virtually identical whether the center is used or just right and left. I have blind tested my wife and she can tell no difference whatsoever.

The reason for such widespread poor performance of centers is a sever lack of coaxial and good midrange drivers to choose from. In addition a horizontal MTM is a non starter in my view and will always be way sub optimal.
The system sounded fair without a center, in stereo mode. I tried assorted single speakers (often opening holes in the sound) and finally ended up with the klipsh (in site of my dislike for horn tweeters; which I have gotten used to), but its only a lesser evil, IMO...

So; since I have a bit of spare change right now I figure that its time to re-visit the indistinct dialogue issue... I see the advantage of coaxial drivers and dispersion and will keep looking...
BTW, Madisound is one of my driver sources; when I get the experimental bug...

Enjoy!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Curious, have you adjusted the response with the Audyssey Editor App? Removed midrange compensation? Keep in mind films like those from Nolan may have some inherent difficulties built in for dialogue.
 
isolar8001

isolar8001

Audioholic Field Marshall
The system sounded fair without a center, in stereo mode. I tried assorted single speakers (often opening holes in the sound) and finally ended up with the klipsh (in site of my dislike for horn tweeters; which I have gotten used to), but its only a lesser evil, IMO...

So; since I have a bit of spare change right now I figure that its time to re-visit the indistinct dialogue issue... I see the advantage of coaxial drivers and dispersion and will keep looking...
BTW, Madisound is one of my driver sources; when I get the experimental bug...

Enjoy!
Bad center sources/mixes are an epidemic....it's not always the speakers fault.

A lot of movies/shows have awful center mixing, especially Atmos with its normalization requirements.....this is far more apparent on streaming sources.
Muffled, dull center information is more the norm lately.

Like luvinthehd just said, try adjusting your center response...brighten it from 1khz and up usually works.
 

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