Center Channel For Sunfire Ribbon 3.1 setup, or something else?

[mburkstrand]

Hi,

I am a relative audio newbie. I was gifted a pair of Sunfire Cinema Ribbon speakers. I am setting up a 3.1 Movie/TV system (with occasional music, but lower priority) in my Family room. I have an Onkyo DS575 receiver and a Yamaha SW100sub. Based on these gifted speakers, I am thinking of a couple of options and would like opinions/feedback.

1) Keep the Sunfire speakers, and try to find a center channel that matches. I can’t get the Sunfire center channel, unless I find it used, and even then that might be too expensive Are there other center channel recommendations that might work well with the Sunfires?

2) Move the Sunfires to a possible 2.1 system in my basement, and purchase a lower cost 3 speaker setup. I would prefer the smaller form factor, if possible (Wife prefers non-intrusive), of the Sunfires for the mains, as well as a lower profile center channel. Are there brand recommendations I should look at? Would like to stay under $300.

3) Attempt to sell the Sunfires, and use the profits to increase my budget for the 3 speakers. Would there be a market for the Sunfires? If I am able to increase the budget, then I will attempt to convince my wife that larger speakers (if recommended) would work.

4) Something else (soundbar, etc)?

Thanks again for your help. I understand that speaker preferences vary from person to person, but with all of the different manufactures, would like to get a general idea of what works for a majority of people. I am not an audiophile by any means, and I don’t think I have a distinctive enough ear to differentiate between the lower and higher cost speakers.

Thanks for reading. Please let me know if you need additional information. -Mike

 

[Eppie]

@mburkstrand I had not heard of these so I did a little research. That's a nice gift considering the retail on the Sunfires. Are these the Duo / CRM-2? I think they are from around 2007 and they were designed by Bob Carver who is a well known amplifier designer since the mid 1980s and started Sunfire in 1994. While not a lot of people know about Sunfire speakers, those that do still find them very desirable and you could sell them with proper research and posting to the right places. I think Sunfire is more known for their subwoofers and you can easily find those in the used market. The speakers are rare.

Can't say for certain what they are worth. A listing on CanuckAudioMart (in Canada) lists a pair of the CRM-2 for C$850 with a retail of C$1600. Over 50% of retail is on the high side in the used market. Someone in Germany is asking $1850 Euro (saying the retail was $2,200 US) but I think they are new. Between 40% - 50% of retail would be reasonable if they are in excellent condition. Eastporters in Canada still have the CRM-2 listed new for C$1100 but that price may be per speaker, so the price is all over the place. In-wall and on-wall Sunfire center speakers are all well over $1100.

Since those are unique speakers, I would be very curious to hear what they sound like. You should hook them up and try them out for a while. You may like them. They are rated down to only 95Hz so they definitely need a subwoofer, so whether you use them in the recroom for TV & music, or just for music in another room, you will want to add a subwoofer. It is common to cross subwoofers at 80Hz but I would recommend a higher crossover frequency for the Sunfires, say 100Hz.

Your budget of $300 is very restrictive as far as audio speakers go. It would be a challenge to find a $300 centre that could match $1600 bookshelves. The big challenge is finding something that has the same sound signature so that dialogue sounds the same when it moves from L to C to R. I looked on Crutchfield and centers start at around $350 for the Definitive Technology, Wharfedale and Elac centers. If you're on a tight budget, Monoprice makes inexpensive speakers that are underrated. The Encore C6 is only $250, but something like the THX-365C at $450 would likely pair better with the Sunfires.

If you could get $700 for them and add $300, that's a budget of $1000 for 3 speakers. If you're not looking for "audiophile" speakers, I think it's still doable. There are good bookshelves in the $500-$600 range and you'll want $350 or more for a decent centre that matches. Audioholics did a nice review of $500 bookshelves which is a good starting point. Soundbars are more for those that do not have the space for a receiver or separate speakers and typically come with a cheap subwoofer that only works with the soundbar. They are compact and unobtrusive, but you sacrifice sound quality and flexibility and are not great for music listening unless you just want some background music. Hope that all helps.

 

[mburkstrand]

@Eppie Thanks for the in-depth reply, I appreciate it. Others on another forum also suggested I keep and listen to the Sunfires, so I will plan to do so. I will try to find a Center that fits with them, though I have read that I don't necessarily need to match the center and front speakers, which is nice. Assuming I like the Sunfires, which I think I will, I can focus my budget on a center speaker. Others have recommended the Monoprice THX-350C, as well as the Emotiva C+1 and C+2. I'll look at Crutchfield and see what is there as well. Thanks!

 

[Eppie]

@Eppie Thanks for the in-depth reply, I appreciate it. Others on another forum also suggested I keep and listen to the Sunfires, so I will plan to do so. I will try to find a Center that fits with them, though I have read that I don't necessarily need to match the center and front speakers, which is nice. Assuming I like the Sunfires, which I think I will, I can focus my budget on a center speaker. Others have recommended the Monoprice THX-350C, as well as the Emotiva C+1 and C+2. I'll look at Crutchfield and see what is there as well. Thanks!

One thing I didn't mention is that if the speakers are close together, like right next to the TV on either side, you can run without a centre, which they term a phantom centre. If the speakers are close together, you still get the sense that the dialogue is coming from the centre. If the speakers will be further apart, like 10 or 12 feet or more, then a centre channel speaker becomes more of a requirement. Good luck in your searches.

 

[Dude#1279435]

Does the speakers and center channel need to be flush together? When I'm staring at the tv and speakers my tv stand nor wall allows for proper alignment. The center channel would stick out closer to the sitting area from the tv/speakers.

 

[Eppie]

Does the speakers and center channel need to be flush together? When I'm staring at the tv and speakers my tv stand nor wall allows for proper alignment. The center channel would stick out closer to the sitting area from the tv/speakers.

Ideally you would want the front face of the LCR to align but that is not always possible and not always the best setup. It's a good starting point but then you might try moving the L+R closer to or further from the wall to see what sounds best. I think speaker placement trumps having all three lined up. If the center is sitting on a shelf or cabinet, move it forward so that the front edge is aligned with the front of the shelf to avoid any reflections from the shelf. The speaker setup in the receiver will make up for any timing differences if the front 3 are not lined up. That's why modern AVRs have speaker distance settings.

@mburkstrand :
Your Onkyo does not appear to have automatic room correction (which requires a microphone) but it does have a speaker setup menu (DS575 manual here). Since you have a subwoofer, set the subwoofer to Yes and all speakers to Small (and surrounds to None if you don't have surrounds). Measure the distance from your main seating location to each speaker and enter the distances into the Config parameters. If the speakers are not lined up, this distance setting will account for the difference and adjust accordingly, so don't worry too much about placement. If you move the speakers, remember to measure and change the parameters in the receiver.

I don't see any crossover setting in the manual but the sub should be crossed around 100Hz for those speakers. If there is no adjustment on the receiver, use the dial on the subwoofer. If the receiver has an adjustment for crossover, turn the crossover dial on the sub to the highest setting and let the receiver do the filtering.

The receiver can produce test tones which are used for level matching. This will be handy since your center will not be the same make as the L+R. You need either a decibel meter or you can install a decibel meter app on a cell phone which gets close enough (but not quite as accurate). I have the Sound Meter app from Splend Apps (Google Play Store) and it works well enough for me. Adjust the center speaker level to match your mains, but avoid a really big boost. You can boost it +3dB, but if you find that it needs +6 or +9, it is better to lower the L+R so that you don't over drive the center. If the center is too loud, lower the center volume as opposed to boosting the L+R.

That covers the basics.