CD/DVD players and sound quality increase

[Privateer]

I guess I starting asking the question becuase I see that very reputable companies like Naim, Rotel and Classe make Seperate CD players (not dvd/cd) and they sell for so much cash! the rotel is 1,500 ( in my budget) the Naim sells for 6k and the classe may sell for double that!

Then buy what YOU want or just go to walmart and buy there $29.99 player from china.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I'm with tbewick. Ear-based audioheads think CDP's make a considerable difference.

Thinking is good but knowing is better.

Trust your ears, not theory.

You must also trust your eyes, explicitly. I bet eye witnesses are scrutinized in the court of law for their reliability. Say what?

Theory is usually based on something, not speculations.

 

[mtrycrafts]

The very testing that is so highly touted here conflicts with my lifetime of experience.

So, a lifetime of experience must be absolute, nonerring, incontestabl???
Really?

Then one should also believe in psychics, right? Holistic healing? Homeopathic dosages? People do, based on a lifetime of experience. Your ears are incapable of erring??? When do you know???




And, my "bias" is such that I have been disappointed with things I've bought and made, contrary to what I expected and wanted.

Bias is uncontrolable and unpredictable. That is the whole issue.

So, I posit the testing is inadequate.


Yep, a posit. Meaningless beyond a singular reality.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Hello mtrycrafts,
Anyway, I still don't see what harm getting an expensive CD player would be. There are certainly design factors that may warrant the additional price, and other things as I said before, like build quality and finish.

No harm if the purchase was made for the right reasons. But I would say a great harm if it is an expensive sugar pill.
Why shouldn't the purchaser be made aware of that fact that it is an expensive sugar pill?

 

[Privateer]

Why shouldn't the purchaser be made aware of that fact that it is an expensive sugar pill?

But if someone is buying a dedicated CD player they will more or less be using the DAC's in the CD player and that will have a huge difference in sound.

 

[MacManNM]

No harm if the purchase was made for the right reasons. But I would say a great harm if it is an expensive sugar pill.
Why shouldn't the purchaser be made aware of that fact that it is an expensive sugar pill?

Talk about expensive sugar pills, my doc gave me some stuff, $120/pill, pure sugar. Made me see that my Sounddesign CD player was a piece of junk. I upgraded to a Pioneer, I am so thankfull.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Talk about expensive sugar pills, my doc gave me some stuff, $120/pill, pure sugar. Made me see that my Sounddesign CD player was a piece of junk. I upgraded to a Pioneer, I am so thankfull.

I didn't know Sounddesign made cd players back in the stoneage.
Wasn't that a K-Mart brand?

Oh, here's one. Nope, 8 track. I can see how you can confuse a cd player with an 8 track tape deck.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sounddesign-model-5409-8-track-player-radio_W0QQitemZ5802845296QQcategoryZ14999QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[MacManNM]

I didn't know Sounddesign made cd players back in the stoneage.
Wasn't that a K-Mart brand?

No, that was Woolworths dept stores, you know, you bought your clothes there along with everything else.

 

[MacManNM]

On a serious note. When you buy a better unit you get:
A better D/A converter= lower noise
Better anti-aliasing filters= better reproduction
all together= Better sound

 

[WmAx]

On a serious note. When you buy a better unit you get:
A better D/A converter= lower noise
Better anti-aliasing filters= better reproduction
all together= Better sound

As a practical matter, if anyone wants to know how well the anti-aliasing filter is working at removing the aliased components without resorting to measurements, an effective alternative option exists for a basic analysis: use the following wave file and burn it to a cd:

http://sjeng.org/ftp/work/udial.wav

This file contains a primary signal, similar to touch tone sounds, that will be heard. In the high frequencies, it has a modulating signal. If the anti-alias filter is excessively leaky or a poor resampler is present, a very obvious siren-like whining noise will be most likely heard; this file has spectral distributions/modulations specfically designed to exploit a poor resampler or anti-alias filter.

CAUTION: Turn the volume to low setting: the HF signal is much higher in amplitude as compared to the main(audible) part of the signal and you could be clipping your amplifier without realizing such if you use this file at greater than moderate volume level.

NOTE: Just because you may hear a whine/siren noise does not mean that audible problems will occur with actual music signals. This is a test signal that was specifically designed to make imperfections audible. However, if no whining siren noise is heard, then you can rest assured that the resampler and/or anti-alias filter in your DAC is probably optimal.

-Chris

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

However, if no whining siren noise is heard, then you can rest assured that the resampler and/or anti-alias filter in your DAC is probably optimal.

-Chris

Chris,

I just played this on the pc. What is it supposed to sound like if I do hear a siren? It sounds like a dial tone, then the siren. It is just a dial tone?

So what units pass this test? The better Denon players?

 

[MacManNM]

As a practical matter, if anyone wants to know how well the anti-aliasing filter is working at removing the aliased components without resorting to measurements, an effective alternative option exists for a basic analysis: use the following wave file and burn it to a cd:

http://sjeng.org/ftp/work/udial.wav

This file contains a primary signal, similar to touch tone sounds, that will be heard. In the high frequencies, it has a modulating signal. If the anti-alias filter is excessively leaky or a poor resampler is present, a very obvious siren-like whining noise will be most likely heard; this file has spectral distributions/modulations specfically designed to exploit a poor resampler or anti-alias filter.

CAUTION: Turn the volume to low setting: the HF signal is much higher in amplitude as compared to the main(audible) part of the signal and you could be clipping your amplifier without realizing such if you use this file at greater than moderate volume level.

NOTE: Just because you may hear a whine/siren noise does not mean that audible problems will occur with actual music signals. This is a test signal that was specifically designed to make imperfections audible. However, if no whining siren noise is heard, then you can rest assured that the resampler and/or anti-alias filter in your DAC is probably optimal.

-Chris

Interesting noise, but worthless.

 

[WmAx]

Chris,

I just played this on the pc. What is it supposed to sound like if I do hear a siren? It sounds like a dial tone, then the siren. It is just a dial tone?

So what units pass this test? The better Denon players?

You will hear an obvious siren-type 'ambulance' noise if the device is not performing optimally. If they device is optimal, you'll just hear a dial tone, and possible a barely audible very high frequency pure modulation[if you have unusually excellent high frequency hearing]. As a rule, most devices should have no problems passing this test; it's very easy to design and build a properly operating DAC in modern times. But please heed the volume warnings. You blow your tweeters -- don't blame me.

-Chris

 

[MacManNM]

You will hear an obvious siren-type 'ambulance' noise if the device is not performing optimally. If they device is optimal, you'll just hear a dial tone, and possible a barely audible very high frequency pure modulation[if you have unusually excellent high frequency hearing]. As a rule, most devices should have no problems passing this test; it's very easy to design and build a properly operating DAC in modern times. But please heed the volume warnings. You blow your tweeters -- don't blame me.

-Chris

Now I get it. Very neat idea. My DAC in my computer is junk, I'm going to download it and try it on my 2 chan setup tonight! I will heed the caution.

 

[WmAx]

Now I get it. Very neat idea. My DAC in my computer is junk, I'm going to download it and try it on my 2 chan setup tonight! I will heed the caution.

In many cases, the hardware resampler in the computer sound system is usually the culprit. A software-layered resampler[using a high quality resample algorythm] bypassing the hardware based resampling function on the board can be used to correct this problem; though it would only be feasible with applications with this software layer built in[like Foobar, for example]. It also consumes additional CPU cycles to use this software layer resampler.

-Chris