Carver ZR amps

[Rob Babcock]

<font color='#000000'>Anyone here ever listen to a ZR amp from Carver Professional? &nbsp;The amps use TriPath technology, and despite the pro amp exterior, the &quot;word on the street&quot; is that they're giant killer amps, comparable to just about anything out there.

I know the party line here is that amps pretty much sound the same (and I mostly agree that w/in their linear operating range that all good amps should sound alike), but I'm still curious to get the opinions of you guys, particularly staffers that may have heard 'em.

BTW, this site is a great one: &nbsp;the no snake oil, no B.S. engineering mindset is a refreshing change from the Audio Cults that spring up online like mushrooms after a spring rain!</font>

 

[darkmonohue]

<font color='#000000'>No firsthand experience with the Carvers. &nbsp;You might be interested to know that AudioSource is going to be producing a line of amps with the Tripath technology:

www.sonic.net/soundscape/as/modseps.html

They look like monoblocks, but drive two speakers. &nbsp;150 wpc for $450? &nbsp;Sounds intriguing.</font>

 

[Rob Babcock]

<font color='#000000'>Looks like a screaming bargain, but I wonder when they'll be available? &nbsp;The concensus at AA is that it''ll be awhile.

I'm really fascinated by the potential of digital amplification; I think we might be seeing the rule book being rewritten. &nbsp;To that end I've been trying to soak up any info I can on any amp or reciever, by any company that utilized digital technology.

There are some dedicated tube-ophiles that are ditching kilobuck tube amps and going to the Carver Pro's, and I've heard talk by some serious audiophiles about using Panasonic and Sony digital recievers to drive some pretty steep speakers in high end rigs.

Wish the Audioholics Staff would focus some of their considerable expertise and brain power on exploring the matter. &nbsp;I'd appreciate their no nonsense engineers take on the situation.</font>

 

[PaulF]

<font color='#000000'>Rob,

For more mainstream home audio products you could look up the TACT Millennium and 2150 models, Jeff Rowland 302, Bel Canto Evo series or for something more esoteric the Acoustic Reality eAR series.

Paul</font>

 

[Rob Babcock]

<font color='#000000'>The beauty of the Tripath is that many of the things that are necessary to coax good performance out of a conventional amp don't apply, or so it seems. &nbsp;For instance, while parts quality still needs to be good, you don't need a huge p/s, etc.

According to what I've heard from guys who've actually bought them, the Carver Pro Tripaths sound at least as good as the Bel Canto &amp; EAR amps, and maybe the Spectron Musician II. &nbsp;The ZR amps of course don't come in a 1/2&quot; thick milled aluminum box like the really spendy ones, but that doesn't help the sound anyway.

There are a few pro peices that have a lot of high end potential, despite the utilitarian looks. &nbsp;One good example is the ART DI/O; this $100 DAC (when modded w/about $250 worth of upgrades) is reputed to outperform DACs costing over $2k. &nbsp;Brian Cheney (of VMPS) swears by hit Boulder modded DI/O, and has used one at CES. &nbsp;I think it was part of the system that won him Best of Show a year back.</font>

 

[PaulF]

<font color='#000000'>I forgot about Spectron. They're the one's with the funky remote sense cable. I'd be interested in Gene's opinion of such an idea.</font>

 

[gene]

<font color='#000000'>All;

I realize our &quot;Audio Principles&quot; page for Amplifiers is in need of major revamping.  I will be working, possibly co-authoring a new Amplifier article to define and list associated Pro's/Con's of all the major audio amplifier classes and topologies.

PWM and Tripath design has come along way, and though I have no listening experience with either in home audio, I have personally implimented PWM in a design with good success. &nbsp;In the past when I looked at Class T amplifier designs (ie. Tripath) I found they were a bit high is distortion and noise. &nbsp;However, with the right filtering, and fast enough switching that may no longer be a problem. &nbsp;This is something we are going to have to investigate.

I never heard of this new Carver company before, please provide a link.</font>

 

[Rob Babcock]

<font color='#000000'>I can't seem to figure out how to add the link correctly, sorry. &nbsp;The address is:
&nbsp; &nbsp;www.carverpro.com/2003/

Despite the pro looks, a lot of pretty knowledgeable guys at AudioCircle.com are swearing by this amp. &nbsp;And one really solid guy there is ditching $10K-$15k + worth of tube gear in favor of one of the new Sony digital recievers!

I'm not a guy prone to a lot of hype, but I'm pretty excited. &nbsp;I plan to buy a Panasonic XA-45 (digital reciever) ASAP to try it out: &nbsp;it's pretty cheap and is reputed to sound awesome. &nbsp;But, I just bought a Denon DVD-2200 today, so my toy budget is shot for a month or two.

</font>

 

[PaulF]

<font color='#000000'>Rob,

Perhaps the tube guys are taking a liking to the digital amps due to the high THD. Depending on the makeup of the harmonincs (something the THD levels alone don't indicate), they could be rich in second and third order harmonics that dominate in tube based amps. This could be giving them the warm fuzzy sound the tube guys love so much.

I can't speak from experience as I have never auditioned a digital amp.

Gene,

You make reference to the common problem of fast switching performance in a digital amp. A company called Mueta claims to have resolved this problem with a unique feedback implementation. They have a white paper that describes it here whitepaper

Just wondering about the pros/cons of this implemetation in your upcoming review of amp classes and topologies.</font>

 

[Rob Babcock]

<font color='#000000'>You hit the nail on the head, PaulF. &nbsp;In the Tripath, 2nd order harmonic distortion predominates the signature in a very tubelike way. &nbsp;Supposedly they also clip very gracefully and exhibit &quot;tube watts.&quot;

I agree that low distortion is better, but I don't think the actual value for THD is unacceptably high (somewhere around 0.5%, if I recall). &nbsp;Of course, with tons of global feedback you could get an amps distortion down to the near-unmeasurably levels, but most folks agree that has it's downside, too.

I've done a lot of research on the available models but I haven't pulled the trigger yet. &nbsp;Buying my new Denon universal player has depleted my gear-stash for the time being. &nbsp;But I'll be buying the Carver as soon as I can.

BTW, a rep for the Carver Pro division of Phoenix Gold has caught on to the discussion of the ZRs and has been answering our questions over at AC. &nbsp;I don't know if the admin here would mind my posting the link, but PM me if you're interested.

Rob</font>

 

[Rob Babcock]

<font color='#000000'>I've just read that Stan Warren recommends the Carver, which would be a pretty big endorsement, indeed. &nbsp;

Also, Brian Cheney (&quot;Big B&quot;, designer &amp; head of VMPS) has purchased one and is breaking it in now. &nbsp;He says it sounded &quot;ghastly&quot; out of the box, but is sounding better as it burns in. &nbsp;Time will tell what he thinks of it.</font>

 

[Rob Babcock]

<font color='#000000'>I'm not sure if anyone here is interested or is reading this, but Cheney reports that the amp is now sounding pretty sweet. &nbsp;He's sending to an associate for a comprehensive bench test, then will run it in for another 200 hrs, then subject it to a series of level matched A/B tests against 4 other high end amps he has laying around.

I'll report back with the results.</font>