Car subs in house

[willhub]

I know power handling dont indicate output of sound, just cant help thinking that a 400W sub wont beat a 700W sub, just seems so unreal due to 300W more W.

 

[mulester7]

JL audio has great drivers that would be at home in the car or in... well... the home.

.....be of good cheer as I am struggling to do, Annunaki, Job was tempted to curse God also.....

 

[mulester7]

.....Will, re-read what Dannv said in an earlier post.....

As of now i have found no way to ad a sub to my logitech z5500 system due to the proprietary way it is put together.

You cannot simply replace the sub, because the sub holds the amp and some other important things. You cannot just add a sub with speaker level inputs, because there would be no bass due to the fixed crossover. the only way i can see using a sub with the z5500 system is simply using the speakers with a seperate reciever. And honestly they are not worth the trouble.

.....now, you can't use outside subs with the Logitech z5500 system you presently have, period....you can't hook up homemade subs using car or home elements, or commercial powered subs, period....your "only" course to get more bass by additional or replacement subs is to get a receiver that has LFE out, or get a receiver with no LFE output and commercial powered subs with the subs having high-level speaker-wire inputs and outputs, now that's it, bet your lungs on it, we're done, you don't need to ask any more questions about subs at this point....I know you don't understand much about all this, and that's no fault of yours, but trust me, you're done until you get a receiver, or learn to be content with what you've got......

 

[willhub]

If i get the subs and an amp, surely there must be a port on the amp so that you can connect it to somthing outputting audio, so i can send a line from the amp with the subs to the sub/center on my X-FI, i have this splitter, so i can even have logitech connected at the same time, even with the logitech if i took the logitechs sub/center cable out of the connection on the back of my soundcard, i still can use the sub in everything, just not stuff with surround sound, if i want to listin to somthing with a movie, simple i would disconnect the subs even tho if i use the splitter i got subs and the whole logitech system on the go, so all i need is the amp and the subs/box?

 

[annunaki]

Put it this way, one can take a poorly built sub throw a huge voice coil on it thick windings ect. and slap a 700 watt power rating on it. Or, I can take a well designed sub with highly linear frequency and motor response, put a more efficient coil design on it and have a 400 watt power rating. Most subs that are worth buying at $150.00 or less will have lower power ratings (150-300watts rms) anyway. When a sub screams "high power handling 800 watts" or something I see it as a marketing ploy for a new hobbyist or person with limited knowlege experience.

One will get much more out of a system if they are more concerned with how well the sub behaves (linear response) along with the enclosure design and implementation. Power handling should be one of the latter things a person thinks about. Making a system more efficient based on enclosure design and choice of sub will also allow for less money to be spent on amplification, where things can get pricey.

 

[annunaki]

I know power handling dont indicate output of sound, just cant help thinking that a 400W sub wont beat a 700W sub, just seems so unreal due to 300W more W.

On paper, all things being equal woofer size, surface area, excursion, and enclosure a 700 watt sub with 700 watts will only be about 2 db louder. To the ear, that is not detectable by most people with music.

Now if the 700 watt sub offers 10 mm more excursion (linear one-way) and a few cm2 more surface area, along with the extra power, there should be a bigger difference.

 

[mulester7]

If i get the subs and an amp, surely there must be a port on the amp so that you can connect it to somthing outputting audio, so i can send a line from the amp with the subs to the sub/center on my X-FI, i have this splitter, so i can even have logitech connected at the same time, even with the logitech if i took the logitechs sub/center cable out of the connection on the back of my soundcard, i still can use the sub in everything, just not stuff with surround sound, if i want to listin to somthing with a movie, simple i would disconnect the subs even tho if i use the splitter i got subs and the whole logitech system on the go, so all i need is the amp and the subs/box?

.....Will, I honestly admire your "never say never" attitude here, and you make me visualize the cartoon about the frog inside the pelican's mouth reaching his froggy arms out choking the pelican.....ok, here's what you have to do....you have to get "pre-amplified" signals to both sides of a seperate stereo amplifier....whether they be left and right stereo signals, or mono-mixed signals to both sides, doesn't matter....maybe you can do this somehow from the soundcard, I don't know....but, here's the bad news....the pre-amped signals going to the seperate amplifier, L&R or mono, have to be low-pass top-cut at around 80 cycles....maybe you can find a couple of passive 4 or 5 way speaker crossovers and use the bottom sections between the stereo amp and the homemade subs, I don't know, BUT, you're going to have to get the "full-range" pre-amped signals FIRST, to go through some sort of low-pass filter, and that's not going to happen from the logitech system....maybe this could be accomplished from a soundcard, I don't know......

 

[willhub]

So i need an Amp, 1 or 2 subs, and what else for all this signal stuff i still am confused, Ok, the subs dont know the Z5500 is there, the Z5500 dont know thats the 2 subs are there, the sound card dont know that the subs and logitech z5500 is connected to the soundcard, what i am saying is, put the subs in and amp etc..., then set logitech z5500 up, ok thats done, now connect the z5500 to my computer as i would with the 3 analoug cables, then were the sub/center cable is from the z5500 to the sound card, i take that out, go look for my splitter thing or w/e its called, plug that into sub/center port, then connect the cable for sub/center from the logitech z5500, then get the cable coming from the subs and also connect that to the sub/center, then the subs will be playing right?, or maybe trying to produce normal sound too? i dunno.

So i need amp, pro amp and a sub?

i put budget above:
"Here are some translations:
150quid = 283.709$ (Price i would like to spend max on 1 sub)
100quid = 189.139$ (Price i would like to spend max on a amp)"

the sub needs to be the loudest i can possibly get for $290, and quality needs to be ok too.

 

[mulester7]

.....Will, I just had a thought....you might take the logitech sub which houses the amp section or sections to an audio repair shop and see if they could take the signal going to the actual sub element before the signal to the sub is amplified....your logitech sub element would be disabled, probaby not much loss there in view of two homemade subs that would really kick, and you could have the pre-amped signal to be Y'd to a seperate amp already top-cut....but, if the sub signal is full-range and cut by a passive crossover after amplifying, you'd be back to square one....and the beat rolls on......

 

[mulester7]

So i need an Amp, 1 or 2 subs, and what else for all this signal stuff i still am confused, Ok, the subs dont know the Z5500 is there, the Z5500 dont know thats the 2 subs are there, the sound card dont know that the subs and logitech z5500 is connected to the soundcard, what i am saying is, put the subs in and amp etc..., then set logitech z5500 up, ok thats done, now connect the z5500 to my computer as i would with the 3 analoug cables, then were the sub/center cable is from the z5500 to the sound card, i take that out, go look for my splitter thing or w/e its called, plug that into sub/center port, then connect the cable for sub/center from the logitech z5500, then get the cable coming from the subs and also connect that to the sub/center, then the subs will be playing right?, or maybe trying to produce normal sound too? i dunno.

So i need amp, pro amp and a sub?

i put budget above:
"Here are some translations:
150quid = 283.709$ (Price i would like to spend max on 1 sub)
100quid = 189.139$ (Price i would like to spend max on a amp)"

the sub needs to be the loudest i can possibly get for $290, and quality needs to be ok too.

.....Will, it all boils down to low-pass-top-cut-around-80-cycles signals arriving at the homemade subs....get some pro's in on this action, go to an audio repair shop and make inquiries....they may ask you to bring in the logitech sub which houses the amp for the whole system.....

.....Will, you're willing to drop some somewhat sizable cash on homemade subs....why are you so determined to keep the logitech system and add homemade subs?....have you never experienced quality commercial powered subs with a receiver-based system?....coupled with audio repair shop technicians, you might find a way to make all this work, but are you sure you'll be pleased with the outcome?....do the logitech speakers really knock you out?....I promise you, they will sound much better being pushed by a quality entry-level Nad receiver.....

 

[willhub]

i aint prepaird to put a sizable amount of money into subs, just 150 quid (289$) for one, i dont want to take the logitech apart, i want to keep it because i want to use the speakers on it, and use it withought doing anything to the logitech sub.

the sub is not loud enough, but the speakers on the logitech are more than enough.

 

[mulester7]

i aint prepaird to put a sizable amount of money into subs, just 150 quid (289$) for one, i dont want to take the logitech apart, i want to keep it because i want to use the speakers on it, and use it withought doing anything to the logitech sub.

the sub is not loud enough, but the speakers on the logitech are more than enough.

.....and how are you going to push the one sub without a new amp, and how are you going to cut the signal to the sub or amp without an active or passive crossover?....your quid spendage just went to about 300-400....I didn't say kill the logitech sub completely, I said possibly the signal to the sub's amp could be diverted to the new amp....you could even leave the logitech sub in the mix, just take the signal to the logitech sub element to both the logitech sub element "and" the new amp....at least talk to an audio repair shop and see if this can be done.....it appears you have no other way to get a top-cut signal to the new amp, and if your logitech sub is cut by a passive crossover "after" amplification, you're probably up a certain creek without a paddle, but I can help even that with the following link.....

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/mulester77/detail?.dir=c930scd&.dnm=39edre2.jpg&.src=ph

 

[willhub]

i said, i want to buy a sub and an amp, budget in one of my other posts, so do i deffenitly NEED a passive crossover whatever one of those are :s, could you list the thing i need? eg sub, amp and what else??, i dont want to even open up the logitech sub, i dont want the warranty voiding on it, i would like it left in one piece, maybe one day i might take the sub out just for fun but at moment, i dont want anyhting at all doing to it.

 

[mulester7]

i said, i want to buy a sub and an amp, budget in one of my other posts, so do i deffenitly NEED a passive crossover whatever one of those are :s, could you list the thing i need? eg sub, amp and what else??, i dont want to even open up the logitech sub, i dont want the warranty voiding on it, i would like it left in one piece, maybe one day i might take the sub out just for fun but at moment, i dont want anyhting at all doing to it.

.....Will, your speakers are bottom-cut at about 100 hz....that means 100 hz down doesn't get to your speakers, so no help there.....your logitech sub signal has a top-cut, probably about 80hz to 100 hz, and appears to be your only hope for getting a correct signal to an outside sub....you could parallel a commercial powered sub off the speaker terminals of the sub element inside your sub enclosure "only" if the commercial powered sub had high-level inputs via speaker-wire, no power would be taken from the logitech amp to push your speakers doing this, and that's it as far as anything I could suggest goes....I also didn't say crack your sub enclosure open with a sledge-hammer....just going inside and attaching some wires shouldn't void any warranties....Will, "please" just go talk to an audio repair shop and simply see what they say....who knows?, they might hold the golden goblet of information......

 

[WmAx]

I was looking at Realm of Excursion at 12" infinity perfect subs, and they dint seem that loud, of course they were louder than my z5500 lol, but the dint seem much louder than this and my z5500 sub wasent even fully maxxed out:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC68MF4cS0o

I do not know what kind of comparison or audition that you attempted, but if the z5500 even came remotely close to one 12" Infinity Kappa Perfect, then one or more of the following is highly probable for the Infinity Kappa Perfect set-up that you tried:

A.) Incorrect box design.

B.) You were standing in a major room null, cancelling out bass, relative to the position of the subwoofer.

C.) The system was configured or set up improperly.

D.) Delusion.

The Infinity Kappa Perfect subwoofers have been tested/verified by 3rd parties(such as noted speaker engineer Vance Dickanson) to be extremely linear and capable of substantial acoustic output. The Kappa Perfect 12.1 in a simple sealed box has been demonstrated(at DVD Plaza measurement section) to equal or near performance of many very high cost subwoofers in terms of SPL, distortion and power compression, even though it is not suited for a sealed enclosure in home applications. Put this driver in a proper ported enclosure with proper amplification and it will certainly be more output than you would probably ever use, and with very low distortion and power compression. Use two and have more output than you will ever need, even for bass head moments with the sub turned up +10dB relative to the nominal signal level.

-Chris

 

[willhub]

@ Mulester7, Ok, pretent that i havent got the z5500's, i dont have them, never had em say, i want a sub or 2, amp 2 speakers and what else do i need, can you reccommend some things, i wouldent like to go over 300 pound, looks like i gotta spend allot more

@WmAx, well then they cant of been at full power in the vid on realofexcursion, well the ones i watched cant of, they were obviously louder, just not by enough to make me buy those things.

Even on real of excursion i was looking at Power Acoustik 12" FUBR 12 things or w/e there called, they seemed to be allot louder than the 12" infinity kappa perfect and i can get those Power Acoustik subs cheap, in a shop in america, i can get 2 shiped over to the uk for 150pound, that is for all the costs, and one of those subs been bought from the uk is about 150pound.


So how exatly would the subs connect to my Computer then????!?!?!?

 

[dannv]

dude just drop it already. There is just NO way of adding a sub to the z5500's without seriously compromising performance. Just keep your computer audio/home audio/car audio seperate. Seriously it is not worth the trouble, and even if you do get it to work where is your upgrade path, soon you will be stuck with a bunch of useless non reselable makeshift equiptment.


IMO you should be looking at a good stereo setup with a nice pair of speakers and some DIY home audio subs.

Seriously your question has been answered over and over again, If you are really determined then you will have to do what mulester said and get it looked at by a pro.

 

[willhub]

omg i aint saying i want to add a sub to the Z5500 havent been saying that for AGES.

i dont have bucket loads of cash to spend, jesus man the z5500 quality is good enough for me, i just want more BASS,as i said, pretend i DO NOT HAVE THE Z5500's.


THE Z5500'S ARE OUT OF THE PICTURE, NON EXISTANT NOW!!!

Whats with ur sig, why you saying it does have a 10" sub?, everyone knows.

 

[annunaki]

@ Mulester7, Ok, pretent that i havent got the z5500's, i dont have them, never had em say, i want a sub or 2, amp 2 speakers and what else do i need, can you reccommend some things, i wouldent like to go over 300 pound, looks like i gotta spend allot more

@WmAx, well then they cant of been at full power in the vid on realofexcursion, well the ones i watched cant of, they were obviously louder, just not by enough to make me buy those things.

Even on real of excursion i was looking at Power Acoustik 12" FUBR 12 things or w/e there called, they seemed to be allot louder than the 12" infinity kappa perfect and i can get those Power Acoustik subs cheap, in a shop in america, i can get 2 shiped over to the uk for 150pound, that is for all the costs, and one of those subs been bought from the uk is about 150pound.


So how exatly would the subs connect to my Computer then????!?!?!?

Have you actually listened to the woofers in question in person?

Are you simply going by what you saw on "realm of excursion"? If so, you are going about this completely wrong. I would take an Infinity Kappa Perfect over a Power Acoustik any day of the week. A Kappa is an example of good, linear sub design. A Power Acoustik is an example of a "market hype" woofer.

 

[willhub]

Well i havent seen it any of the subs, but i know sum 1 who said that the Power Acoustik is awsome and goes extreamly loud.

Would the Kappa Infinity Perfect go alot louder than 1 Power Acoustik??

The reason i would prefer that power Acoustik over a kappa is because on real of excursion, seen vids of both, there is the power acoustik, pounding away, seems to be poudning louder than any of the kappa perfrects, yet the kappa is flexing sooooo much and the power acoutik aint moving that much, surely the louder a sub is then the more distortion on a vid there is, and with the power acoutik, there is more distortion than with the kappa perfect's.