Canton Vento vs PSB Synchrony?

[InTheIndustry]

InTheIndustry,

i've requested information about a dealer for phase techs, the pictures sure do not do it justice since the video linked on the same PC page makes the speaker look tons better.

By Strong dealer you mean a dealer that does a lot of volume so that they could get a discount from a particular manufacturer?

I read somewhere else that these speakers can be bright if using the wrong amp, what would your suggestion be?

Phase Technology speakers are not in the least bit bright. We use them in all sorts of applications and I've never come close to thinking "bright". They're a solid sounding speaker that perform very detailed at low volumes while at the same time are forceful.

Their outdoor line is excellent & used at Disney World all over the grounds. The Phase Tech architechtural offerings are one of my favorites as well. Cool story: We just used their contractor grade - entry level in-walls - for a children's playroom theater in one of our client's homes. We painted one of their walls white to make it look like an accent wall and installed the Phase Tech in-walls and a subwoofer. With an entry level projector it works perfect for an inexpensive Wii/Movie system that the kids can consider their own. I was shocked! The client came in when he heard the kids (& I ) watching one of the DC cartoon DVD movies and watched with us for a few minutes. His exact words... "This is in a class by itself. Blows my expectations out of the water.". What's cool is that while Phase Tech's "entry level" in-walls are very inexpensive, the company didn't, and won't, put something on the market that's crappy. Ken Hecht, the company's President, just would never do that. He spent years developing the new PC line and the PC 9.5 is their finest tower 2 channel speaker. I will take pics and post them of the little theater later today.

- I prefer Parasound electronics for most high performance systems we do. However, it all comes down to budget and a client's system goals.For JUST 2 channel Parasound & NAD makes some great integrateds as does Peachtree Audio - if someone is looking for internet or PC based listening as their main source.

- Yes, a strong dealer would be one that's been with the company for a while and buys with a bit of volume. They are able to get a better break on the speakers and would possibly pass that on to their clients.

- If you cannot find a dealer (of any of these brands) in your area that is willing to work with you let me know through a PM & I will try to help you in any way I can.

Good luck in your search!

 

[InTheIndustry]

[/B][/B]
Phase Tech are best speakers I have ever auditioned in that price range, and they (to me) just can't be beat. I did audition the Synch Ones and to me they are not even close to the Phase Techs. For the price I think they are the best speakers on the market. The sound kind of reminds me of the real Kef's with the flat piston drivers.

I agree that the Phase Tech brand offers one of the best upper mid-hifi speakers on the market.

What I said in an earlier post about the PC 9.5 being on par with the Synch One I should've qualified a little better....

The Synch One is a speaker that I would say competes favorably or at least belongs in the conversation with some of the very large "high end" speakers on the market today. At $5,000 a pair the Synch One should be considered a bargain product capable of great full range performance in large spaces. If it were a car, I would say it's a Corvette: Able to run with the Porsches at 1/2 the cost. But there are some things to be advised on when looking at the Synch One that will add to the cost of ownership over something like the Phase Tech PC 9.5. The cost to power them to the point of "best" performance is going to be higher and they need to be worked into a room and placed properly to sound great. If not, the low end - which is one of the more incredible things the Synch One does - can suffer from serious "blooming" or bloating. A work around to this is to use port plugs.

Like the Corvette vs. Porsche, the PC 9.5 can be had for around 1/2 the price. It can be powered at a bit of a lower cost and is easier to be placed near room boundries. IMO they are very different speakers, yet still represent two of the highest values in loud speakers.

I'll give an example of where I feel the PC 9.5 is a better speaker than the Synch One.... I have a sunken sitting/reading room that is 12' x 19' with 9' high ceilings. There is furniture along one of the walls, a large chair facing the 12' wall & a long 10' stone fireplace along a 19' boundry. There's no floor space in this room for bringing speakers out from the walls nor is the room so large that bass will get swallowed up. The PC 9.5 is going to play low & plenty loud enough in a space like that &, honestly, even considerably larger rooms.

People all the time ask in forums, "Which is best?". Well.... that always depends on the variables. One speaker may look better than another on paper, but speakers aren't like cars (even though I referenced them earlier to show competing products & value) where raw/absolute performance will matter on the OPEN road: Smash down on the gas and everything that the car is goes into the results and you can realize performance in a practical manner. A loudspeaker is NOT like that. Speakers are usually set in a single area (NOT an open road) and asked to perform their best based around the variables the listener & room present it with. Deciphering real world performance for your space is what will give you the most satisfaction. That's how you find value. Specs matter but, IMO, not as much as practical application when applied to variables.

Sorry for the rant, but I feel like what I said & what you followed up with needed qualified.

 

[Nuance AH]

I had to look up anechoic =). Meaning were those done in a echo-free room? I'm not entirely sure, but I guess what you're suggesting is that my room is definitely not going to be anechoic so those may not apply?

What'd you think of the Ascend Towers? What color were they?

Yup, that's basically what I meant. Case in point: The room that the new Ascend Tower's were in was pretty bad acoustically. Due to this I'll refrain from giving any further opinion of the speakers. However, hopefully now you understand why we'll be having another GTG (in a different room) next weekend.

The Ascend's were piano gloss black, by the way.

With that said, I'll again caution you fine folks not to take too much stock in the measurements unless they were anechoic. If those are just measurements in a reviewer's room (the big mags do this a lot), they likely won't reflect how they'll measure in your room at all, and especially how they'll sound. The important measurements are the anechoic ones, and maybe the in-room off-axis ones, as they'll give you a good idea of the potential of a speaker. We took measurements of the Ascends and a pair of Salk HT2-TL's at the GTG, and the room dominated the sound, which resulted in the measurements being very similar even thought the speakers sounded very different.

Anyway, there are a lot of good recommendations in this thread. Listen to everything you can before buying. Or, if it's an ID manufacturer you could always take advantage of the 30-day trail period.

Have fun!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

After auditioning various speakers, I definitely agree that specs don't always match the actual sound for some mysterious reaons.

Aesthetics, Brand Name, Prefessional and Peer Reviews also play into the buying decision.

There are 2 major differences I've found in the sound quality of the speakers.

The first and most obvious one is the bass output. This one is easy to see on the frequency response graph.

If you listen to towers that can't play flat to 30Hz in-room-response and you don't use a subwoofer, the sound may just turn you off.

Speakers that have built-in subs like DefTech BP7001/7000 will be able to dish out the 30Hz easily even if you don't add an external sub; it's almost like you get the sub whether you want it or not.

The second difference is the midrange resolution - how detail and clear the midrange is. Some speakers will be able to play instruments clearer than others. Can we see this in the frequency response graph?

Is it how accurate the speaker is on both the on-axis and off-axis FR?

In my limited experience, I postulate (but not theorize) that a speaker with a 5-point average Freq Resp On/Off Axis from 200Hz-10kHz of < +/- 3.0 dB (on Soundstage Anechoic chamber or at least on Home Theater Mag) will have a satisfying midrange resolution.

The imaging/soundstage is kind of over-rated IMO. Perhaps only the worst speakers have issues here IMO.

 

[pinchharmonic]

that's precisely why I contacted them to get dealer info, phase technologies that is.. I want to hear them after all this talk! strange procedure btw, they don't list the dealers, you have to call or e-mail them your location then they tell you where the dealers are.

too bad they emailed me me a dealer in san diego, when i'm in san jose. So i'll have to wait until next week.

Btw I saw a video on youtube explaining the piston drivers for the PC 9.5. It had to be the Cherry finish and that does look much better than the picture provided.

 

[pinchharmonic]

i just watched the video for the PC 9.5 about the solid piston driver and tried to understand every detail. I wanted to ask you brilliant folks some questions.

So now I understand that the speaker basically uses a magnet, and given a charge it can move that magnet back/forth to generate vibration of the air which is a sound. In the video the removed one of the cones and showed all of that.

So I know enough that the top smaller hole of the PC 9.5 is the tweeter, but then there are 3 equally sized cones below that.

Are these 3 sized cones exactly the same size and basically producing the same exact sound at different height? or are they actually internally large or smaller for different ranges of sounds?

Also, he explained that the sound goes back into the speaker equally as it does out and that's why the cone is opaque so it can't travel back out and muck the sound... But then it's not explained why the speaker column is curved aside from rigidity? and also i notice some towers are deeper from front to back than others, what's the point in that?

 

[walter duque]

I have a friend that owns the Phase Tech System. They where powered by a Cinepro 3k6 350 watts x 6 into 8 ohms and then we changed them to AB International amps 800 watt per channel. These speakers will amaze you. You do need some good power with these. A 100 watt AVR is not going to get it.

 

[InTheIndustry]

i just watched the video for the PC 9.5 about the solid piston driver and tried to understand every detail. I wanted to ask you brilliant folks some questions.

So now I understand that the speaker basically uses a magnet, and given a charge it can move that magnet back/forth to generate vibration of the air which is a sound. In the video the removed one of the cones and showed all of that.

So I know enough that the top smaller hole of the PC 9.5 is the tweeter, but then there are 3 equally sized cones below that.

Are these 3 sized cones exactly the same size and basically producing the same exact sound at different height? or are they actually internally large or smaller for different ranges of sounds?

Also, he explained that the sound goes back into the speaker equally as it does out and that's why the cone is opaque so it can't travel back out and muck the sound... But then it's not explained why the speaker column is curved aside from rigidity? and also i notice some towers are deeper from front to back than others, what's the point in that?

In the PC 9.5 there is a 1" tweeter at the top, then a smaller 1.5" midrange dome just below that. The other drivers & front port are used to reproduce the low end frequencies and fill out the midrange bass.

The curved cabinet is a design element that increases stiffness and offers diffraction benefits.

A really great thing about Phase Tech is that they are readily accessable. Feel free to call Ken Hecht and talk to him about the 9.5. ken's the President & chief engineer as well as the guy in the videos. He'll be happy to talk shop with you and is an extremely kind & practical guy. One of my favorite speaker designers.

 

[pinchharmonic]

I have a friend that owns the Phase Tech System. They where powered by a Cinepro 3k6 350 watts x 6 into 8 ohms and then we changed them to AB International amps 800 watt per channel. These speakers will amaze you. You do need some good power with these. A 100 watt AVR is not going to get it.

hi, when you say a 100watt avr, you mean 100watts per channel or total? I was seriously considering the PeachTree Nova, which is only 80 watts per channel (2 channels). Thoughts on that?

Also, I saw some nifting looking tube amps made in hong kong on ebay, for 500-800 with very high wattage ratings, they are called "yaqin" and seem to have great feedback. With this option I'd still need a DAC because I'd like to run off my computer. Any experience with that either?

 

[InTheIndustry]

hi, when you say a 100watt avr, you mean 100watts per channel or total? I was seriously considering the PeachTree Nova, which is only 80 watts per channel (2 channels). Thoughts on that?

Also, I saw some nifting looking tube amps made in hong kong on ebay, for 500-800 with very high wattage ratings, they are called "yaqin" and seem to have great feedback. With this option I'd still need a DAC because I'd like to run off my computer. Any experience with that either?

The Peachtree Nova will be perfect for the PC 9.5. When we're done with our show room that's the exact same 2 channel system I'll be putting in my familly room. I will use it with a Sonos ZP90 so I can stream music using my iPad as a controller.

 

[pinchharmonic]

The Peachtree Nova will be perfect for the PC 9.5. When we're done with our show room that's the exact same 2 channel system I'll be putting in my familly room. I will use it with a Sonos ZP90 so I can stream music using my iPad as a controller.

very very cool, just watched the video on amazon for the Sonos.

I'm assuming you'll have the Sonos output Digital, and then have the Peachtree do the digital-> analog?

I noticed it also has an analog ouput, but I'm assuming the DAC on it is not that good.

 

[InTheIndustry]

very very cool, just watched the video on amazon for the Sonos.

I'm assuming you'll have the Sonos output Digital, and then have the Peachtree do the digital-> analog?

I noticed it also has an analog ouput, but I'm assuming the DAC on it is not that good.

Yep, use the optical output of thhe Sonos into the Nova.

We've done a few desk top systems using the Decco & one larger system with the Nova, all with Sonos as the source. I absolutely LOVE having Rhapsody & all of that music at my fingertips. Recently I've been finding all sorts of remastered digital versions of some great music. It's one of my favorite products of all time & I can't remember the last time I've even thought about buying an album.

 

[pinchharmonic]

Yep, use the optical output of thhe Sonos into the Nova.

We've done a few desk top systems using the Decco & one larger system with the Nova, all with Sonos as the source. I absolutely LOVE having Rhapsody & all of that music at my fingertips. Recently I've been finding all sorts of remastered digital versions of some great music. It's one of my favorite products of all time & I can't remember the last time I've even thought about buying an album.

The sonos works with computer files too, so in that case, are you basically creating some network shared folder of music?

I'm asking this because I'd like to run off my computer, but I'm wondering if any expensive soundcard is needed!

 

[oddjobs]

E55Ti

Hi, I see you have a pr of E55Ti's. If you don't mind could you give some insight to why you went with these and you pros and cons.
Thinking of getting a pr. But not to much info on them.

Thanks, Gary

 

[InTheIndustry]

The sonos works with computer files too, so in that case, are you basically creating some network shared folder of music?

I'm asking this because I'd like to run off my computer, but I'm wondering if any expensive soundcard is needed!

Sonos is its own device that works off of your network. The Sonos software will help you to set up a shared music file. Your PCs sound card does not factor into it as Sonos only sees the files as something for it to stream off of a networked device. This is set up automatically for you.

Personally, unless there's something you want to listen to that is NOT on Rhapsody, I wouldn't bother with the whole PC thing. Rhapsody just has so much to play with that I don't see the point of PC loaded content unless it's for a specific reason.

The equipment you will need is a Sonos Zone Extender (to plug into you router) and a ZP90. I would highgly recomend an iPad or iPod touch to use as a controler.

Hope this helps!

 

[pinchharmonic]

Sonos is its own device that works off of your network. The Sonos software will help you to set up a shared music file. Your PCs sound card does not factor into it as Sonos only sees the files as something for it to stream off of a networked device. This is set up automatically for you.

Personally, unless there's something you want to listen to that is NOT on Rhapsody, I wouldn't bother with the whole PC thing. Rhapsody just has so much to play with that I don't see the point of PC loaded content unless it's for a specific reason.

The equipment you will need is a Sonos Zone Extender (to plug into you router) and a ZP90. I would highgly recomend an iPad or iPod touch to use as a controler.

Hope this helps!

Right, that was my understanding as well. But then I started thinking of really expensive soundcards for computers, and wondering if they produce better digital output somehow (hard to imagine)


ALso, I read about people buying really expensive CD players, in the 1000s. Is it because those CD players have a really expensive DAC? Can't you just rip the CD onto a PC, output digital, use a good DAC and basically replace an expensive CD player?

 

[InTheIndustry]

Right, that was my understanding as well. But then I started thinking of really expensive soundcards for computers, and wondering if they produce better digital output somehow (hard to imagine)


ALso, I read about people buying really expensive CD players, in the 1000s. Is it because those CD players have a really expensive DAC? Can't you just rip the CD onto a PC, output digital, use a good DAC and basically replace an expensive CD player?

People purchase really expensive CD players for all sorts of different reasons. A lot of what someone really "needs" from this standpoint is based on related equipment and how things are going to be set up.

Stereophile has an older review of Sonos and talks about the two different outputs and how they tested. One of the things the review talked on as a nitpicking negative was that it only supports up to 16 bit files. Most people don't realize is that that's almost any recorded music file. Very little music is available at a higher bit rate. Google for reviews of the system and you'll find a lot of good info out there. A lot of the older write ups are for the ZP80 but there's no negative drawbacks to the newer ZP90.

And you are correct about ripping your CDs onto a PC for playback. However, you get 30 days of Rhapsody free. I would highly suggest trying that before embarking on the process of going through all of that. Most people are blown away by the interface and experiemce of the whole thing that they abandon the whole idea of the ripping.

The DAC in the PeachTree Nova is top shelf. My company deals in all sorts of audio gear and we've used the PeachTree + Sonos + (insert speaker model here) to test and demo all sorts of speakers over a broad price point. It's a great little rig for 2 channel.

 

[pinchharmonic]

People purchase really expensive CD players for all sorts of different reasons. A lot of what someone really "needs" from this standpoint is based on related equipment and how things are going to be set up.

Stereophile has an older review of Sonos and talks about the two different outputs and how they tested. One of the things the review talked on as a nitpicking negative was that it only supports up to 16 bit files. Most people don't realize is that that's almost any recorded music file. Very little music is available at a higher bit rate. Google for reviews of the system and you'll find a lot of good info out there. A lot of the older write ups are for the ZP80 but there's no negative drawbacks to the newer ZP90.

And you are correct about ripping your CDs onto a PC for playback. However, you get 30 days of Rhapsody free. I would highly suggest trying that before embarking on the process of going through all of that. Most people are blown away by the interface and experiemce of the whole thing that they abandon the whole idea of the ripping.

The DAC in the PeachTree Nova is top shelf. My company deals in all sorts of audio gear and we've used the PeachTree + Sonos + (insert speaker model here) to test and demo all sorts of speakers over a broad price point. It's a great little rig for 2 channel.

hi,
i sent you a PM regarding the pc 9.5s

 

[InTheIndustry]

hi,
i sent you a PM regarding the pc 9.5s

Got it, thanks!