Cancelled TX-SR705 exchange - Seriously thinking Denon's AVR-2308CI

[Pipelayer]

I just posted that I exchange my Onkyo TX-SR605 ro the TX-SR 705, I was supposed to pick the 705 up today but I told the to hold on that, because I'm considering the Denon's AVR-2308CI instead, and then I'll just return the 605 an pay the difference.

But before I make my final decision I would like some input for this forum and whether it's thought to be a good choice to go with the Denon's AVR-2308CI over the Onkyo TX SR705.

Oh yeah, the Denon also upscales to a complete 1080p!

Denon AVR-2308CI link
http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3631.asp

 

[GlocksRock]

I would go for the Denon over the Onkyo, but that's just me. But the Onkyo is still very nice, and does have one more HDMI input, but that's kinda moot if you use an HDMI switcher.

 

[Davemcc]

I would go for the Denon over the Onkyo, but that's just me. But the Onkyo is still very nice, and does have one more HDMI input, but that's kinda moot if you use an HDMI switcher.

But the 2308 does not have multi channel preouts. The Onkyo does.

 

[GlocksRock]

True... but will he actually need them? I think the denon will do a good job of powering most speakers just fine. Either way, they should both sound pretty much the same, it's just a matter of deciding what works better for the end user. I kinda find it hard to believe sometimes that I actually bought an external 7 channel amp when my Yamaha was 120x7 and THX Select 2 certified, but when playing music in 7 ch. stereo, and playing movies at very loud levels, the extra power makes a difference, since the receiver can't do 120x7 all channels driven, and my emotiva amp does 150x7 @ 8 ohms min. power all channels driven.

 

[Davemcc]

True... but will he actually need them?

Hard to say without knowing his speakers. I find it odd that my 2307 has preouts but the 2308 does not. I considered the preouts a safety net in case I wanted more power. It's a good thing too, because my speakers benefit from the extra stability of the Rotel at the volumes I sometimes reach.

BTW - I haven't been able to confirm that the Denon will upscale to 1080p except when using analog inputs. If you want to upscale an HDMI signal to 1080p, you might be out of luck. This is worth looking into a little more.

 

[yettitheman]

Hard to say without knowing his speakers. I find it odd that my 2307 has preouts but the 2308 does not. I considered the preouts a safety net in case I wanted more power. It's a good thing too, because my speakers benefit from the extra stability of the Rotel at the volumes I sometimes reach.

BTW - I haven't been able to confirm that the Denon will upscale to 1080p except when using analog inputs. If you want to upscale an HDMI signal to 1080p, you might be out of luck. This is worth looking into a little more.

Won't the Onkyo TX-SR875 do 1080p upconversion?

 

[Pipelayer]

Hard to say without knowing his speakers. I find it odd that my 2307 has preouts but the 2308 does not. I considered the preouts a safety net in case I wanted more power. It's a good thing too, because my speakers benefit from the extra stability of the Rotel at the volumes I sometimes reach.

BTW - I haven't been able to confirm that the Denon will upscale to 1080p except when using analog inputs. If you want to upscale an HDMI signal to 1080p, you might be out of luck. This is worth looking into a little more.

The speakers I'm using are the "Triangle Galaxy 5.1".
The "Triangle Galaxy 5.1" review starts at the 12th paragraph:
http://jazztimes.com/reviews/audio_video_files/reviewDetail.cfm?ReviewID=26

If I consider I might need pre-outs, I'll probably go with the Denon AVR-2808CI. However, it's probably unlikely.

 

[Pipelayer]

DONE !!!
Went with the Denon AVR 2808CI, pre-outs and all, found best price at shopdigitalcorp.com
$814.00 - Free shipping.

http://www.shopdigitalcorp.com/productdetail.asp?productid=1574&ref=pricegrabber

 

[Davemcc]

Great price. The only downside is that you will have no warranty. Denon will only honor warranty when you purchase from authorized dealers or e-tailers. However, Denon is a brand not known for needing warranty work, so you may be OK.

 

[Pipelayer]

This site offers a Warranty, but I spoke with a rep and he assured me that Denon will honor their warranty. That's not what I consider a big problem anyway, I do electronic repair work, most of the time you can just tell the manufacturer you misplaced the receipt or it was a gift and you didn't receive the receipt and they will honor the warranty anyway. The manufacture date, as a rule, is always on the equipment anyway, they will generally honor the warranty two years after that date if it has a two year warranty.

 

[Davemcc]

I know the Denon warranty not a big issue for you, but I'm going to include the following link for anybody that might come across this thread later. Who knows, maybe two years from now, somebody searching the site will find this useful if the link is still active.
http://www.usa.denon.com/Warranty.asp

 

[Pipelayer]

Thanks for the info, I'm sure it will prove to be quite helpful. For the record I did purchase a 2 year Mack Warranty for around 40 bucks just to be on the safe side. Don't know about Denon but most factory warranties are 90 days labor and two years parts. The Mack is a full two year parts and labor warranty. I've used Mack's services several times with no problem.

Unfortunely, most authorized dealers want something like $1100 or $1200 for this amp, it would be worth it if the companies with lower prices were selling non-authentic amps. I know this company has authentic equipment because my buddy has the same amp he ordered from them, and it's authentic, serial numbers and all.

My buddy informed me he also registered his amp with Denon as a gift, and he noted that on the registration form it's not a requirement that you fill out the "retailor field" asking which retailor the amp was purchased from. The rep informed him the reason that was is because they realize that many people do receive their products as gifts and that his listed serial number was in their manufacture database and shows his amp to be authentic and left their distributor close to the time of his stated purchase date.

But like you said, they are pretty dependable amps, he's had several Denon amps over the years and has never had to send one back for repair.

I just have to say this, I have not received this receiver yet, but just reading the specs alone makes me fall in love with it! This receiver has most all of the high priced receiver features at a middle class receiver price, unbelievable!!!

Features and Specs:

New front panel design, controls and lettering
Equal power amplifiers: 7-channel
Power output (watts per channel @ 8 ohms, 20hz to 20kHz): 110
All channels rated @ 0.05 THD
Low impedance drive capability
High-current/discrete amplifiers
Independent power transformers: 2
DSP Processors - Analog Devices, SHARC: ADSP 21366 x 1, 21367 x 1
Processor design: 32-bit floating point
Processor circuit sampling frequency: 192kHz
Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital+ Decoding, dts-HD Master Audio Decoding
THX Surround EX and Dolby Digital Surround EX decoding
Dolby Pro Logic IIx, with Cinema, Music and Game modes
dts ES Discrete 6.1 and dts ES Matrix 6.1 decoding
dts Neo:6 Stereo-to-Surround Cinema and Music modes
dts 96/24 5.1 for DVD-Video processing
XM-HD 5.1 via Neural Surround decoding
Compressed Audio Restorer for portables/iPods/network audio
Audyssey MultiEQ XT auto setup calibration and room correction for 6 seating
positions
Auto setup microphone included: New Y/Mold type
AL24+ Processing on front left and right channels
24-bit/192kHz DACs: DSD1608
Analog-to-Digital conversion: 24/192 PCM1804
Variable High/Low Pass crossover points (12/24dB):
40/60/80/100/120/150/200/250
Assignable digital inputs
iPod ready with a Denon D-dock
USB Port for portable music players/flash drives/HDD with command and
control functionality
XM Satellite Radio ready - "Mini-Tuner" compatible
Multi-source/Zone discrete tuner select function - AM/FM/XM
HDMI 1.3a Repeater Inputs/Outputs - supports 1080p, 36-bit Deep Color, xvYCC
Color Space, Auto Lip Sync correction, 7.1 uncompressed 24/96 Audio, SACD
Analog to HDMI Video Conversion/Scaling: 480p/720p/1080i/1080p
Faroudja DCDi Video Processing and Scaling (FLI02310)
Main Zone Video Encoder: Analog Devices ADV7320 12-bit
Main Zone Video Decoder: Analog Devices ADV7403 12-bit
NSV - Noise Shaped Video processing
Digital Inputs: 3 coaxial, 4 optical
Digital Outputs: 2 optical (assignable)
Digital-to-Analog REC Out
Analog Audio Inputs (including Tuner): 10
Phono Input
Analog Record Outputs: 3
Front Panel A/V Inputs w/Cover: Composite, S-Video and Optical
Independent Video Conversion: S-Video to Composite for Zone 2
Composite Video Inputs: 7
Composite Video Outputs: 3
S-Video Inputs: 7
S-Video Outputs: 3
Component Video Inputs x bandwidth (assignable): 3 x 100
Component Video Outputs (parallel main zone): 2
Discrete second zone Component Video Outputs
RS-232 Port for third-party controllers and new Denon 2-way Remote Control
and RF/IR Base Station
3-source, 3-zone capability
D/A conversion for multi-zone outputs (Optical, Coaxial and PCM signal only)

Enhanced Power Amplifier assign for multi-zone or bi-amping: 4 modes
Compatible with optional RC-7000/7001CI IR/RF 2-way Remote/Base Station
Dimensions (W x H x D in inches): 17.1 x 6.7 x 16.9
Weight: 30.9 lbs.

 

[Davemcc]

It most certainly is a nice receiver. I wish I had one right now.

Edit - Hey, when you get that thing, can you let me know if it displays the on screen menu over HDMI in progressive scan. That is one feature I want that manufacturers rarely mention.

 

[GlocksRock]

it would be really nice if it did that, but I don't think it can per HDCP specs or something like that. I asked about it in another thread somewhere, and it was explained that it can't do that... I'm not sure of any receiver that will do OSD via HDMI with any source that's progessive.

 

[Davemcc]

Glock, you're killing me here.

I was looking at this spec: "Analog to HDMI Video Conversion/Scaling: 480p/720p/1080i/1080p" I would have thought that if it can convert and scale a composite video VCR connection to 1080p, surely it could convert its own menu. I would really like this feature on my next receiver or pre/pro.

 

[Seth=L]

What scaler engine does the Denon AVR-2808CI use? Don't they use an older version of Faroudja? If they do, then their scaler may not be superior to that of a nice HDTV, upscaling DVD player like an Oppo or Denon, or an HD DVD/Blu-ray player with scalers.

IMO, scaling on mid-fi receivers is typically nothing to write home about.

That said, the Denon AVR-2808CI at that price is a very good deal. It should give you a few years of enjoyment until everything related to audio changes again and we all have to buy new gear.

Side note to Yettitheman: The Onkyo TX-SR875 is significantly more expensive that the Denon models being discussed here. The TX-SR805 is in a similar price bracket but lacks scaling features, probably in favor of its overall build quality and power.

 

[Pipelayer]

It most certainly is a nice receiver. I wish I had one right now.

Edit - Hey, when you get that thing, can you let me know if it displays the on screen menu over HDMI in progressive scan. That is one feature I want that manufacturers rarely mention.

Not sure if this answers your question, got this info from the AVS forum:

On-Screen Display for Component Video Outputs and HDMI Output

According to their manual...it says that:

*When viewing HDMI or component video signals via the AVR-2808CI, the on-screen display appears when the MENU button or the main control unit's PARA button is operated.

*When only HDMI or component video signals are input to the AVR-2808CI, the characters of the on-screen display are not displayed over the picture.

 

[Davemcc]

The issue I'm trying to work around is that my TV won't recieve 480i via HDMI. Most receivers that send out the OSD via HDMI send it out in 480i which doesn't help me at all. I'm hoping the new generation of receivers will send the OSD in at least 480p, but I haven't been able to confirm if any do.

 

[Pipelayer]

Just out of curiosity, is that also a TV issue, meaning; Are there more TV's that can receive OSD (On Screen Display) Via HDMI (High Definiton Multmedia Interface) in 480i (480 Interlaced) scan as opposed to only 480p (480 Progressive Scan)? In other words is it common for a TV to be incapable of receiving the OSD in 480i via HDMI ?

I'm sort of new at this, so I don't know every detail, but being an Electronic Tech., I know most of the jargon and it's meaning. Personally, I'm surprised that 480p is not the process of choice for displaying the OSD. It would be better suited to send the on-screen display(OSD) in 480 Progessive scan(480p) and not 480 Interlaced scan (480i). A progressive scan differs from interlaced scan in that the image is displayed on a screen by scanning each line (or row of pixels) in a sequential order rather than an alternate order, as is done with interlaced scan.

In a progressive scan, the image lines (or pixel rows) are scanned in numerical order (1,2,3) down the screen from top to bottom, instead of in an alternate order (lines or rows 1,3,5, etc... followed by lines or rows 2,4,6). By progressively scanning the image onto a screen every 60th of a second rather than "interlacing" alternate lines every 30th of a second, a smoother, more detailed, image can be produced on the screen that is perfectly suited for viewing fine details, such as text, and is also less susceptible to interlace flicker. I would assume this is definitely the aim that would be persued in the newer receivers.

 

[Davemcc]

My thinking on that matter would be that receivers output OSD in 480i so that they are compatible with CRT's as well as fixed pixel displays. I have found out that it is common, but not universal for fixed pixel TV's to not take 480i over HDMI. It depends on the manufacturer, but a TV replacement is not in my immediate future.

Like virtually all of the previous generation receivers, mine will transcode to HDMI, but it won't deinterlace. This new generation of receivers has so much more video capability, I'm hoping that the OSD has been part of the upgrades.

What scaler engine does the Denon AVR-2808CI use?

The 2808 uses the Faroudja FLi2310, while the 2308 uses the Faroudja DCDi. I'm not sure, but I would assume it is a better chip in the 2808.