Can we have a rational discussion about guns and why the typical arguments for gun control and its implementation won't work?

highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
and you have forgotten one very important point .......... a judicial system that doesn't fit the crime. When I hear the cry for 'more gun laws' I cringe.
State legislatures are to blame for a lot of the low bail cases, too- they set limits on bail depending on the crime and in some cases, the courts are so jammed they can't try each case quickly, so ankle monitors are used in hopes that they won't be cut off (which happens far too often). In the Milwaukee system, they don't have enough monitors for all of the cases and the choices are: long wait times between arrest & trial or just let them go and get whatever bail can be collected. Bail is used in hopes that the suspect will actually go to trial and long delays are unconstitutional.

From the link-
"Does it worry you, at all, releasing somebody in the community, who you would normally have on a tracking device?" Reinwald asked.

"We always have concerns in how we read people and human behavior, but by and large the data tells us most often people are in compliance, whether they're on a device or not," Triggiano said. "I think most people want to come in and resolve their cases."


Public safety be damned, too many dirtbags are being set free to continue their killing.
 
Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Audioholic General
Can we start a go fund me for the supermarket shooter? I hear on media reports the shooter is a child who has suffered depression due to Covid. It is a mental health issue.
Again, thanks to the brave police officers For doing their jobs of rescuing this child from a band of black shoppers in a supermarket.

Photo by realdlhughley on May 16, 2022. May be an image of 12 people and text that says 'heavily armed ARRESTED unarmed MURDERED heavily armed ARRESTED unarmed MURDERED heavily armed ARRESTED unarmed MURDERED heavily armed ARRESTED unarmed MURDERED heavily armed ARRESTED unarmed MURDERED heavily armed ARRESTED unarmed MURDERED'.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Ninja
Can we start a go fund me for the supermarket shooter? I hear on media reports the shooter is a child who has suffered depression due to Covid. It is a mental health issue.
Again, thanks to the brave police officers For doing their jobs of rescuing this child from a band of black shoppers in a supermarket.

Photo by realdlhughley on May 16, 2022. May be an image of 12 people and text that says 'heavily armed ARRESTED unarmed MURDERED heavily armed ARRESTED unarmed MURDERED heavily armed ARRESTED unarmed MURDERED heavily armed ARRESTED unarmed MURDERED heavily armed ARRESTED unarmed MURDERED heavily armed ARRESTED unarmed MURDERED'.'heavily armed ARRESTED unarmed MURDERED heavily armed ARRESTED unarmed MURDERED heavily armed ARRESTED unarmed MURDERED heavily armed ARRESTED unarmed MURDERED heavily armed ARRESTED unarmed MURDERED heavily armed ARRESTED unarmed MURDERED'.
He is 18 years old, will be tried as an adult, hopefully get sent to general population where 'bubba' can take care of him in short order, saving the tax payers some $$ !!

As for pictures, how about showing the senseless victims and their respective murderers that get shot daily in our cities. Sadly these recent tragedies in MLK and Bflo pale in comparison :(
 
Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Audioholic General
He is 18 years old, will be tried as an adult, hopefully get sent to general population where 'bubba' can take care of him in short order, saving the tax payers some $$ !!

As for pictures, how about showing the senseless victims and their respective murderers that get shot daily in our cities. Sadly these recent tragedies in MLK and Bflo pale in comparison :(
I am not, nor have I ever been a proponent of jailhouse justice.
Evil is evil. Criminals do criminal sh*t.

Don’t ask me to post other pictures. Explain the obvious in what was posted…
Why are heavily armEd white male mass murders routinely, calmly arrested by police, while unarmed Blacks are routinely murdered by the police because the police, “Fearing for their lives” perceived a threat and opened fire.


America’s problem is not crime, guns, nor abortion.

I am embarrassed and ashamed that I spent time in the military ….I shudder when I see the rise in “patriotism“ as evidenced by the sporting of the american flag. The america that these new patriots love is the america of their forefathers.
 
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GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
and you have forgotten one very important point .......... a judicial system that doesn't fit the crime. When I hear the cry for 'more gun laws' I cringe.
How about "different", rather than "more"?

You're still not blaming people for this. Are carjackings and kids fleeing from the Police in stolen cars caused by the number of cars, or kids who are turds?
Of course the shooters are ultimately responsible, unless declared not guilty by reason of insanity.

You keep blaming mental illness, but the US isn't an outlier in this area. Developed countries with similar, or higher, rates of mental illness than the US: France, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Australia and New Zealand*. Yet, they all have much lower gun crime rates than the US. What's the key difference? It's the quantity and easy availability of firearms in circulation. The math doesn't lie.
Mental Health - Our World in Data

Canada has lower mental illness rates than any of those six countries, yet has higher gun crime rates than they do. We also have more firearms in circulation than those countries, as well.

In the end, it's up to Americans to figure out how - or if - to solve the problem. While it may look like I'm the busy-body Canuck lecturing Americans, it's not from a position of moral superiority. It's the fact that so many crime guns in Canada are smuggled in from the US. So, we have a vested interest. I would wager that any of those European countries I listed above would see increased gun crime if they also shared a border with the US.

Since you mentioned cars, how about compulsory training, licensing, registration and liability insurance for firearms? Across the board. Every state. No exceptions.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
I am not, nor have I ever been a proponent of jailhouse justice.
Evil is evil. Criminals do criminal sh*t.

Don’t ask me to post other pictures. Explain the obvious in what was posted…
Why are heavily armEd white male mass murders routinely, calmly arrested by police, while unarmed Blacks are routinely murdered by the police because the police, “Fearing for their lives” perceived a threat and opened fire.


America’s problem is not crime, guns, nor abortion.

I am embarrassed and ashamed that I spent time in the military ….I shudder when I see the rise in “patriotism“ as evidenced by the sporting of the american flag. The america that these new patriots love is the america of their forefathers.
People like this shooter apparently believe in the "Great Replacement Theory". They're afraid of becoming part of a minority. What is it about being a minority that scares them...?
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Ninja
I am not, nor have I ever been a proponent of jailhouse justice.
Evil is evil. Criminals do criminal sh*t.

Don’t ask me to post other pictures. Explain the obvious in what was posted…
Why are heavily armEd white male mass murders routinely, calmly arrested by police, while unarmed Blacks are routinely murdered by the police because the police, “Fearing for their lives” perceived a threat and opened fire.


America’s problem is not crime, guns, nor abortion.

I am embarrassed and ashamed that I spent time in the military ….I shudder when I see the rise in “patriotism“ as evidenced by the sporting of the american flag. The america that these new patriots love is the america of their forefathers.
The 'obvious' in your photos is hate /race crime mass shootings. I'm not arguing that, all I'm telling you is look at the whole picture, more blacks kill blacks every day in this country than white on black. Prove me wrong ........
 
Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Audioholic General
The 'obvious' in your photos is hate /race crime mass shootings. I'm not arguing that, all I'm telling you is look at the whole picture, more blacks kill blacks every day in this country than white on black. Prove me wrong ........
False equivalency.

i expect criminals to do criminal sh*t.
I do not expect the police, to do criminal Sh*t.

Since you chose to ignore the obvious, (after I explained it) the obvious in the photo is not, “ hate/race crime mass shootings,” It is the police killing of unarmed blacks versus their repeated restraint when arresting heavily armed white men that they know are armed and have shot numerous people When they enter the crime scene.

when you want to avoid the uncomfortable truth, the argument somehow shifts…

Explain it or don’t, respond or not, but have Some integrity in your argument ….or keep blaming the blacks.

In the history of america no group of people have been more evil, criminal, or sadistic than white men. prove me wrong….

you see what I did right….
 
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Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Ninja
False equivalency.

i expect criminals to do criminal sh*t.
I do not expect the police, to do criminal Sh*t.

Since you chose to ignore the obvious, (after I explained it) the obvious in the photo is not, “ hate/race crime mass shootings,” It is the police killing of unarmed blacks versus their repeated restraint when arresting heavily armed white men that they know are armed and have shot numerous people When they enter the crime scene.

when you want to avoid the uncomfortable truth, the argument somehow shifts…

Explain it or don’t, respond or not, but have Some integrity in your argument ….or keep blaming the blacks.

In the history of america no group of people have been more evil, criminal, or sadistic than white men. prove me wrong….

you see what I did right….
Come there 'old Onk', I blame all who are responsible...... black, white and all shades in between. Your sentence of 'blame' speaks volumes, perhaps you should move out of the country ! ??
 
Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Audioholic General
Come there 'old Onk', I blame all who are responsible...... black, white and all shades in between. Your sentence of 'blame' speaks volumes, perhaps you should move out of the country ! ??
Expected response. You mean Your country, right?

My response over the years…buy me out. I haven’t had a taker yet.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Ninja
Expected response. You mean Your country, right?

My response over the years…buy me out. I haven’t had a taker yet.
LOL, 'Onk' you win, best of luck going forward ! Let's get back to figuring out this gun mess !
 
Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Audioholic General
Come there 'old Onk', I blame all who are responsible...... black, white and all shades in between. Your sentence of 'blame' speaks volumes, perhaps you should move out of the country ! ??
And you still didn’t address the fundamental issue highlighted/ question asked…..

Your sentence of “ leave the country” speaks volumes, perhaps you are more committed to maintain the status quo, than you think.

see what I did there…..
 
Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Audioholic General
People like this shooter apparently believe in the "Great Replacement Theory". They're afraid of becoming part of a minority. What is it about being a minority that scares them...?
America’s /White people’s treatment of minorities….
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
How about "different", rather than "more"?


Of course the shooters are ultimately responsible, unless declared not guilty by reason of insanity.

You keep blaming mental illness, but the US isn't an outlier in this area. Developed countries with similar, or higher, rates of mental illness than the US: France, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Australia and New Zealand*. Yet, they all have much lower gun crime rates than the US. What's the key difference? It's the quantity and easy availability of firearms in circulation. The math doesn't lie.
Mental Health - Our World in Data

Canada has lower mental illness rates than any of those six countries, yet has higher gun crime rates than they do. We also have more firearms in circulation than those countries, as well.

In the end, it's up to Americans to figure out how - or if - to solve the problem. While it may look like I'm the busy-body Canuck lecturing Americans, it's not from a position of moral superiority. It's the fact that so many crime guns in Canada are smuggled in from the US. So, we have a vested interest. I would wager that any of those European countries I listed above would see increased gun crime if they also shared a border with the US.

Since you mentioned cars, how about compulsory training, licensing, registration and liability insurance for firearms? Across the board. Every state. No exceptions.
Mental illness is definitely a problem but if you re-read my posts about this, I constantly call the shooters 'turds', 'idiots', 'morons', etc. People here suck and as I have posted far too many times, people are a huge disappointment, for me. They could be SOOOO much better.

The argument against your last point is that driving is a privilege, gun ownership is a right that's in writing, in the Constitution. It's much harder to reverse the right but it's incredibly difficult to enforce the law for licensing drivers when the kids say "I don't need a license, I just need a car".
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
I am not, nor have I ever been a proponent of jailhouse justice.
Evil is evil. Criminals do criminal sh*t.

Don’t ask me to post other pictures. Explain the obvious in what was posted…
Why are heavily armEd white male mass murders routinely, calmly arrested by police, while unarmed Blacks are routinely murdered by the police because the police, “Fearing for their lives” perceived a threat and opened fire.

America’s problem is not crime, guns, nor abortion.

I am embarrassed and ashamed that I spent time in the military ….I shudder when I see the rise in “patriotism“ as evidenced by the sporting of the american flag. The america that these new patriots love is the america of their forefathers.
I don't weep for anyone who commits heinous acts, especially when they target particular groups. What happens in prison happens and the two local examples of that are Jeffrey Dahmer & Jesse Anderson. They were killed in the same incident and IMO, they deserved it since WI doesn't have capital punishment.

The "I'm a patriot, dammit!" mind is broken. Saying it doesn't make it true, acting it does.

I don't disagree with your comments about treatment of Blacks- again, people can definitely suck.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
Mental illness is definitely a problem but if you re-read my posts about this, I constantly call the shooters 'turds', 'idiots', 'morons', etc. People here suck and as I have posted far too many times, people are a huge disappointment, for me. They could be SOOOO much better.

The argument against your last point is that driving is a privilege, gun ownership is a right that's in writing, in the Constitution. It's much harder to reverse the right but it's incredibly difficult to enforce the law for licensing drivers when the kids say "I don't need a license, I just need a car".
While gun ownership may be a right, it isn't limitless, as there are regulations in effect now. So, what's a few more like the ones I listed.

Turds and morons are in every country. The difference is that in the US, turds and morons have greater access to firearms.
 
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cpp

cpp

Audioholic Samurai
Well its time to blame baseball bats for murder and for the baseball bat for doing bodily harm. Feb 11, 2022 A Morristown Tn man is facing a charge of second-degree murder after telling investigators he beat a neighbor to death with a sledgehammer and a baseball bat during an altercation.

CHULA VISTA, Calif. Feb 22, 2022 A young man 18 years old was arrested early Tuesday morning on suspicion of beating his grandmother to death with a baseball bat, Chula Vista Police said.

And some many other baseball bat inflected crimes. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=man+beat+another+man+to+death+with+a+baseball+bat

Its the bats fault.
 

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