Can I get sound from a soundbar that rivals my real system?

[Cory Raymer]

We moved over the weekend and the only negative coming from it is losing my dedicated media room. Since I no longer have the projector I bought an LG 77" OLED TV.

My sound system from my media room is a Denon AVR-3200, Klipsch Reference R620F towers, Klipsch Reference RP-402S Dipoles, Klipsch RP-450C Center, Klipsch CDT-3800-C II in ceiling rears and a Rythmik Audio FVX15 400WRMS sub.

This system sounds fantastic, but my wife is wanting me to not set all this up in the living room, even though it is a large room that will accommodate it nicely and will be professionally installed by myself, running wires through attic etc.

My question is, is there any kind of setup, soundbar packages etc that can come even close to the quality sound output of my current system?

Even if there is, I don't see the point of spending money on another setup when I have this already. In either case, I would keep my system as we will be adding an addition to the home once we pay it off in 5 years, for another dedicated home theater.

 

[TigSaysHi]

Not exactly. I used to be an installer & I was always impressed with the Bose SR1 Soundbar/Subwoofer setup. I believe you can still find them for sale online, I cannot speak for any of the newer models though.

I can understand your woes - is there a way you can build your towers into the walls or entertainment cabinet? Just spit-balling ideas.

The only other better solution I have is - sell your equipment on FB marketplace, and create an all in-ceiling system... and maybe sneak a center channel in somewhere in the wall, maybe behind the tv mount. You can find in-ceiling subs - or I have a buddy who was another installer with me - he did all Yamaha 8" in-ceilings, and they had decent bass response. Of course it was no comparison to a dedicated subwoofer - but then again, you could build a passthrough into the living room from an adjoining coat closet or bedroom closet wall.

For example, build a sealed box behind the wall and either have the sub ported into the living room - or flush mount (recess the sub face/surround into the wall) and find a paintable grill face that you can use earth magnets for the face of the grill so it snaps to the wall and is flush and can match the wall color.

Just ideas.... I've bounced from many sizes of houses - but I've had about every setup possible...
>Living Room Dedicated full sound system
>Soundbar in small living room
>dedicated HT room (currently)

 

[Cory Raymer]

Actually the towers will fit inside the cabinets on either side of the TV.

 

[TigSaysHi]

Yeah if you all plan on watching a lot of movies together, I'd do the extra work and get them to fit in the cabinet - you can always get some acoustic type stretch fabric if your loved one doesn't appreciate just the 'exposed' tower look. It could be made to look like the trim detail that is above the fireplace (behind the tv mount location). I've seen the stretch fabric almost that exact accent paint color as well. That would be pretty awesome, almost a hidden tower setup for center stage sound.

 

[NINaudio]

Those towers are NOT designed to be placed in another enclosure, whether it's built into a wall or in the cabinets next to the TV. They will not sound good in there. I highly recommend not doing that, as would most people on this site.

You'd be better off picking a different wall for your setup to go on. Over a fireplace is not a good place for a TV, and it really limits your placement options for center channels.

 

[Cory Raymer]

Those towers are NOT designed to be placed in another enclosure, whether it's built into a wall or in the cabinets next to the TV. They will not sound good in there. I highly recommend not doing that, as would most people on this site.

You'd be better off picking a different wall for your setup to go on. Over a fireplace is not a good place for a TV, and it really limits your placement options for center channels.

Unfortunately, this wall is the only option for TV mounting. I had also considered if the towers in the side cabinets would have an echo effect and sound funny. I was going to stick them in there and see. If it is as bad as what you're thinking, I may have to invest in a different set of speakers and save these for the future media room.

 

[NINaudio]

Unfortunately, this wall is the only option for TV mounting. I had also considered if the towers in the side cabinets would have an echo effect and sound funny. I was going to stick them in there and see. If it is as bad as what you're thinking, I may have to invest in a different set of speakers and save these for the future media room.

Not so much an echo, but the bass will become boomy and bloated and there may be some weird diffraction effects in the higher frequencies as well. In short, putting speakers designed for in room use in a wall or enclosure will negatively impact your sound quality.

 

[TigSaysHi]

Yeah, I see what your saying NINAudio -- I was taking the approach of, this is what I have, let's make the best of what is on hand.

Disclaimer: My opinion turned into $ wouldn't buy you a single K-Cup to put in your Keurig...

The Klipsch Reference R620F towers are not a ported tower. If they were KF28s like mine are, then yeah, stuffing them into a restricted space would cause issues. So being the 620F's are a sealed enclosure I do not see what you're referring to - other than, yes the bass response could become boomy - but if you're custom building it, just make some sound proof inserts for 5 surfaces where the tower is resting... the issues of performance mentioned are valid, I'm not saying otherwise, I'm just suggesting - creating an acoustic treatment around the tower is an easy solution.

My KF28s are in the wall, but the backs are in another open room, and the speakers are essentially flush with the wall behind the screen. But, I'm a believer in acoustic treatment first vs leaning on processors, EQs, and solely speaker performance.

What do you think NINaudio? What about if he treated the surrounding surface of the tower's resting place?

 

[Pogre]

I can understand your woes - is there a way you can build your towers into the walls or entertainment cabinet? Just spit-balling ideas.

As an installer have you ever taken free standing speakers and stuffed them into a cabinet or build them into a wall? With good results?

That's a huge no-no. If a speaker is not designed to be used that way it will cause problems and detract from sound quality.

 

[Pogre]

Yeah, I see what your saying NINAudio -- I was taking the approach of, this is what I have, let's make the best of what is on hand.

Disclaimer: My opinion turned into $ wouldn't buy you a single K-Cup to put in your Keurig...

The Klipsch Reference R620F towers are not a ported tower. If they were KF28s like mine are, then yeah, stuffing them into a restricted space would cause issues. So being the 620F's are a sealed enclosure I do not see what you're referring to - other than, yes the bass response could become boomy - but if you're custom building it, just make some sound proof inserts for 5 surfaces where the tower is resting... the issues of performance mentioned are valid, I'm not saying otherwise, I'm just suggesting - creating an acoustic treatment around the tower is an easy solution.

My KF28s are in the wall, but the backs are in another open room, and the speakers are essentially flush with the wall behind the screen. But, I'm a believer in acoustic treatment first vs leaning on processors, EQs, and solely speaker performance.

What do you think NINaudio? What about if he treated the surrounding surface of the tower's resting place?

Not just boomy bass, but massive baffle step and diffraction issues as well.

I bought a reusable k cup for my Keurig, just for the record.

 

[Cory Raymer]

Thank you all for the replies. Sounds like I need a different solution. Any suggestions on what kind of solution would give me the best bang for the buck for around $1,000-$1,200?

I will utilize my Denon receiver. If possible would still use my Klipsch center, surrounds and rears.

 

[Pogre]

Thank you all for the replies. Sounds like I need a different solution. Any suggestions on what kind of solution would give me the best bang for the buck for around $1,000-$1,200?

I will utilize my Denon receiver. If possible would still use my Klipsch center, surrounds and rears.

A second sub is always nice to have for more even bass across a wider area. Your receiver is still a good receiver, tho an update to get you more current could be nice too. If the 3200 still does everything you need tho, there's nothing wrong with continuing to use it.

If you really wanna roll your sleeves up and get into it, a calibrated mic and REW gives you the ability to really dig in and see areas for imrpovement.

 

[TigSaysHi]

As an installer have you ever taken free standing speakers and stuffed them into a cabinet or build them into a wall? With good results?

That's a huge no-no. If a speaker is not designed to be used that way it will cause problems and detract from sound quality.

So my towers are about17" deep? Roughly, guessing. I have them currently on a platform that places them behind the screen, and are essentially 'in the wall.'

I guess everyone is having issues envisioning what I'm talking about. But I'll put it this way --- the speakers have no consciousness. They are already in an enclosure - by placing them in a spot that is built to have about 1" tolerance (so 1/2" around) is not going to have performance issues. Also, diffraction mainly deals with forward moving soundwaves that then spread - they do not just magically reverse direction and wrap around the back of the tower. Which again, has anyone here used acoustic treatment before? Am I the only one?

To satisfy everyone not engineering things themselves and just doing what they read - you might as well just buy a set of 10" Das Event Line Arrays for about $150k and put them on your living room ceiling. j/k

 

[Pogre]

So my towers are about17" deep? Roughly, guessing. I have them currently on a platform that places them behind the screen, and are essentially 'in the wall.'

I guess everyone is having issues envisioning what I'm talking about. But I'll put it this way --- the speakers have no consciousness. They are already in an enclosure - by placing them in a spot that is built to have about 1" tolerance (so 1/2" around) is not going to have performance issues. Also, diffraction mainly deals with forward moving soundwaves that then spread - they do not just magically reverse direction and wrap around the back of the tower. Which again, has anyone here used acoustic treatment before? Am I the only one?

To satisfy everyone not engineering things themselves and just doing what they read - you might as well just buy a set of 10" Das Event Line Arrays for about $150k and put them on your living room ceiling. j/k

What I'm picturing is putting a speaker in a tight cubby with the baffle flush with the wall or cabinet. If that's not what you're suggesting then I do have what you're talking about wrong.

 

[TigSaysHi]

Sure - we can go with that idea -- explain the difference between an enclosed tower and an enclosed tower that essentially was built with a thicker wall on all sides? The output of the speaker doesn't change, nor does the in-tower resonance, air it moves, or how the frequencies leave the speaker. The only difference is slight reflection at 180 degrees.

I'm not 100% arguing, but I am wanting someone to explain why diffraction keeps being brought up.

If I shout "HEY" in open air vs putting my head through a Disney Character cutout and yell "HEY", the only difference is a slight reflection from the 180 degree line/plane of my loud mouth with the wall. Which again... minor acoustic treatment eliminates that issue... maybe Gene will release an amazing video on youtube showing how smart everyone is and dumb I am.

 

[Pogre]

Sure - we can go with that idea -- explain the difference between an enclosed tower and an enclosed tower that essentially was built with a thicker wall on all sides? The output of the speaker doesn't change, nor does the in-tower resonance, air it moves, or how the frequencies leave the speaker. The only difference is slight reflection at 180 degrees.

I'm not 100% arguing, but I am wanting someone to explain why diffraction keeps being brought up.

If I shout "HEY" in open air vs putting my head through a Disney Character cutout and yell "HEY", the only difference is a slight reflection from the 180 degree line/plane of my loud mouth with the wall. Which again... minor acoustic treatment eliminates that issue... maybe Gene will release an amazing video on youtube showing how smart everyone is and dumb I am.

I'm going to cheat and quote TLS guy since he builds and designs speakers and systems, and knows far more about it than I do. Plus he can explain it a lot better than I can.

That is a bad plan. Speakers have to be designed specifically for in wall mounting as they are entirely half space radiators, whereas free standing speakers have a transition frequency depending on the width of the speaker, from half space to omnidirectional radiator.

 

[TigSaysHi]

Yeah I see what you mean. There isn't anything wrong with quoting good resources.
I guess I'm just stubborn and I'd engineer the heck out of all of it to make it work - if I loved the speakers/setup.

Momma always said, if you're going to be dumb - you better be tough.

 

[ASoundOfThunder]

What sorts of things would you measure (or take stock of in some other way,) in a free standing speaker to determine how far it would need to be from a corner (where the output would cut off, but from the back angles instead of the front edge) Is it a matter of airflow and distance?

 

[NINaudio]

I'm going to cheat and quote TLS guy since he builds and designs speakers and systems, and knows far more about it than I do. Plus he can explain it a lot better than I can.

I'm sure @TLS Guy can you give you way more info than I or Pogre could, but what Pogre quoted from TLS is a pretty good summation of the issues, although baffle step compensation also needs to be taken into consideration from my understanding.

 

[NINaudio]

What do you think NINaudio? What about if he treated the surrounding surface of the tower's resting place?

That will do nothing for baffle step compensation or diffraction, which would need to be addressed in the crossover design.