Cables Make a Difference

[mtrycrafts]

How much need I spend before the hobby is fun? I didn't realize there was a two drink minimum...

It's probably a two finger minimum The height of a stack of $100 needs to be, LOL

 

[mtrycrafts]

I thought he was referring to Barnum's quote "nobody every went broke over estimating the gulibility of the American Pubilc".

They both go hand in hand, from the same individual. Simply the Barnum Effect. My trademarked term LOL

 

[mtrycrafts]

Claim? Do you really go around life being that skeptical?

When it matters, yes Don't you? Not an ounce of skeptical matter inhabiting?

Some wives can actually be open minded on the matter.

Open??? What does that really mean???
You know what Carl Sagan had to say about being open???


Audioswayze, the ever closed-minded with an inexplicable chip on his shoulder.

Closed minds??? How so? No evidence of this.

 

[Sleestack]

Claim? Do you really go around life being that skeptical?

When it matters, yes Don't you? Not an ounce of skeptical matter inhabiting?

Some wives can actually be open minded on the matter.

Open??? What does that really mean???
You know what Carl Sagan had to say about being open???


Audioswayze, the ever closed-minded with an inexplicable chip on his shoulder.

Closed minds??? How so? No evidence of this.

So I say that I don't mind paying excessive prices for eye candy for my system and you feel that you need to be skeptical about that? Why? What exactly is there to be skeptical about? You think I actually do mind paying excessive prices? Is that really worth being skeptical about? I guess if that is the way you live your life, so be it, but doesn't sound like too much fun to me.

Open minded? Its not that complicated. It simply means she is willing to live with something that she may not like because she knows I do. She understands that different things appeal to different people.

No evidence? I guess that would be another opinion we don't share. Do I really need to provide evidence? Alternatively, why don't you provide evidence that he is open minded.

 

[philh]

CAT5 wires or the latest and greatest tweek-du-jour, AA IS a viable alternative...you probably won't like it here.

jimHJJ(...reality is a b!tch...)

Hey, I resemble that remark

I tried the CAT 5 (non teflon) braided wire and definitely heard an improvement. BUT, after continuing to stay here and learn, suspect my cable had deteriorated and was providing a negative influence. Either that or the electrons finally wore out and needed to be restored

Seriously tho, it was a fun experiment, super low cost (30 yo zip cord v left over CAT 5), looks pretty, sounds better, and proved to me that at least a probable bad cable sounds bad Maybe cutting off a bunch of excess cable would have improved things the same amount, who knows?! Maybe I can submit my "expensive" cable to a DBT

 

[Audiosouse]

Claim? Do you really go around life being that skeptical? Some wives can actually be open minded on the matter. In a HT setup, I definitely try to hide the cables, but in my 2 channel setups, the cables are much more controlled and can look good. But, I forgot, you're Audioswayze, the ever closed-minded with an inexplicable chip on his shoulder.

I guess a lawyer's job really is to read into things. Better watch my verbage before I'm summoned! I meant exactly what I said, if I spent $5K on lampcord wearing a tux, I'd proudly display it for all my callow guests to oogle.

I hate to break it to you, but your wife's open minded so long as bags of cash keep showing up on the front door. Quit your job and sit on the couch in a wife beater swilling beer for a month. We'll see just how understanding she is! LOL!

To be on this site implies open mindedness. We're proudly flying in the face of convention, audio pioneers if you will. And no chip on these size 44's my Sleesy friend, reading golden eared justifications for blowing thousands on a magical disc mat is just plain fun. Oh I'm sorry...those rubber discs do make a difference, only on a subspace level nobody can explain through known science yet. Dang if we ain't ignant for not believin' y'all marketers!

 

[Sleestack]

I guess a lawyer's job really is to read into things. Better watch my verbage before I'm summoned! I meant exactly what I said, if I spent $5K on lampcord wearing a tux, I'd proudly display it for all my callow guests to oogle.

I hate to break it to you, but your wife's open minded so long as bags of cash keep showing up on the front door. Quit your job and sit on the couch in a wife beater swilling beer for a month. We'll see just how understanding she is! LOL!

To be on this site implies open mindedness. We're proudly flying in the face of convention, audio pioneers if you will. And no chip on these size 44's my Sleesy friend, reading golden eared justifications for blowing thousands on a magical disc mat is just plain fun. Oh I'm sorry...those rubber discs do make a difference, only on a subspace level nobody can explain through known science yet. Dang if we ain't ignant for not believin' y'all marketers!

I didn't read into anything. You were obvioulsy referring to my post, but, then again, you can do no wrong oh virtuous one.

I hate to break it to you, but my wife has a graduate degree from Columbia, just as I do, and makes plenty of income as well. I guess in your world, you can't imagine why a woman would love you unless you had money.

"To be on this site implies open mindedness. We're proudly flying in the face of convention, audio pioneers if you will. "

To be on this site implies nothing more than an interest in audio/video. Furthermore, get over yourself... "audio pioneers?" Last time I checked there was a diversity of views on this site. What's with the "we" BS. Are you so egocentric that you believe your views and priorities are shared by everyone on this site?

Next time you want to comment on one of my posts, don't play the passive/aggressive game. Just be direct,... at least people can respect that.

 

[mtrycrafts]

So I say that I don't mind paying excessive prices for eye candy for my system and you feel that you need to be skeptical about that?

Absolutely not. Eye candy is a preference. No complaint, but only if that is how anything about that wire is made, not some technical aspect that can be tested.

The problem is that very few make it an issue of a preference.


What exactly is there to be skeptical about? You think I actually do mind paying excessive prices? Is that really worth being skeptical about? I guess if that is the way you live your life, so be it, but doesn't sound like too much fun to me.

Sure looks like you are not reading the posts but reading between the lines that is empty space.

Open minded? Its not that complicated. It simply means she is willing to live with something that she may not like because she knows I do.


Nope, that is not an open mind. Just being a good, accepting wife.



She understands that different things appeal to different people.


That is great.

 

[Rob Babcock]

You know, people keep repeating the rote empty comment that it "must not be any fun" to be so skeptical. But if sure must be damn fun, at least to Mtrycrafts!

Sleestack touched upon an interesting subject- time doesn't permit me to delve into it in depth right now, but I'm fascinated by his cable experiences. Particularly the part where he buys very expensive ones, can't really hear much difference, but doesn't mind. Curiously I can relate to this, although Monseur Sleestack and I obviously occupy different rungs on the socioeconomic ladder. On occasion I too have bought something more expensive or "trendy" just to see what all the fuss is about. Even if I'm disappointed with the product, I rarely feel ripped off. After all, you can always pass it along to the next guy out to scratch the same it, usually for 25-50 cents on the dollar. Best of all, I got to be part of the "in crowd." I got into the game.

An honest show of hands: how many of you hardcore subjectivist guys out there are just going thru the motions and playing the role, even though you know it's BS? C'mon- there's a few at least. That's part of the fun. My Zu cables really don't sound a bit different than my AR or Dayton jobbies (to my tin ears, at least ), yet I still like them. They just...well...they look really cool. And my entry level Onix SP3 pleases me to no end, even though in some ways it's inferior to the receiver it replaced. To be sure it sounds no better, at least not obviously so. But I get a giggle of juvenille delight every time I gaze at those lovely tubes, glowing like the dying embers of a flickering campfire. The darned thing is just pretty- it literally is audio jewelry.

One thing bothers me about the Hardcore Objectivists: follow me here for a minute. Premise 1- bias is unavoidable. That's why we need DBT, because color, brand preference, and a million other subconscious factors come into play. No one is sufficiently Iron Willed enough to block them out. Premise 2- Under DBT the truth about components true sound will come to light. Okay, I agree with that. If you can only hear something once you know it's there, how can you be sure you really hear it? But here's the whopper... Premise 3- Once you choose your gear and get it home, WHAMMO! All those biases will snap back into place. Unless you have the salesman deliver it to your home and set it up behind an acoustic screen, once you see what you have you'll be right back to your preconceived notions. And didn't we just establish in Premise 1 that no one can overcome these biases sufficiently to obviate the need for controls?

Ultimately most of us fool ourselves, and we know it on some level. All humans must be capable of muliply layers of contradiction and multiplicity just to get thru a single day in our society. But the Audiophool embraces this even while he partially sees the game for what it is. That's half the fun.

 

[Sleestack]

So I say that I don't mind paying excessive prices for eye candy for my system and you feel that you need to be skeptical about that?

Absolutely not. Eye candy is a preference. No complaint, but only if that is how anything about that wire is made, not some technical aspect that can be tested.

The problem is that very few make it an issue of a preference.


What exactly is there to be skeptical about? You think I actually do mind paying excessive prices? Is that really worth being skeptical about? I guess if that is the way you live your life, so be it, but doesn't sound like too much fun to me.

Sure looks like you are not reading the posts but reading between the lines that is empty space.

Open minded? Its not that complicated. It simply means she is willing to live with something that she may not like because she knows I do.


Nope, that is not an open mind. Just being a good, accepting wife.

I wasn't trying to read between the lines. It was a natural conclusion based on the thread you were responding to, given that the matter being questioned was whether or not some people pay excessive prices for aesthetics alone. I had already stated that I couldn't hear a difference b/t my $5K Cardas and my $500 Onix cables.

Open minded, understanding...... as long as it results in a harmonious marriage, its all the same to me.

In any case, just trying to clarify... I don't think we are actually disagreeing on anything.

 

[WmAx]

Premise 3- Once you choose your gear and get it home, WHAMMO! All those biases will snap back into place. Unless you have the salesman deliver it to your home and set it up behind an acoustic screen, once you see what you have you'll be right back to your preconceived notions. And didn't we just establish in Premise 1 that no one can overcome these biases sufficiently to obviate the need for controls?

I have explained what you refer to as premise 3 in many of my posts. If one does not, for whatever reason, wish to put effort into or does not have time/desire to change their aspect(s), then this is IMO a valid reason to buy/use whatever they percieve as sounding better/bringing more enjoyment. But so far as bias being unavoidable, it is of course true, but I find that one can probably reduce certain pre-concieved biases if they choose to put forth effort and inform themselves from factual sources and participate in blind tests. Realize that in many cases, people have immersed themselves in the audiophile environment and the subconscious expectation of certain things is very high, since they basicly think about the supposed differences and the opinions of others on a regular basis. I, for example, percieve far less difference[usually no difference] when comparing things like amplifiers in sighted conditions, as compared to several years ago. But where this really matters is when listening; having far less concern for things like exotic resistors, capacitors, wires, amplifiers, etc. and more concern for real/substantial issues has increased my ability to enjoy the music. If one chose to go even further, and aquire knowledge of what really affects sound, via credible sources of data, one can[as I do] improve things that are known/provable to have real improvement(s) on the sound to achieve a sound quality that is considerably beyond what could have been accomplished without this knowledge.

-Chris

 

[BMXTRIX]

Anyone besides me use RG-6 quad shield terminated to RCA for all audio/video interconnects and 14 gauge electrical wire for all speaker runs?

Okay, I used Monster for my speaker runs because the cable is the best handling I've ever had and my interconnects are mostly mini RG-59.

 

[Audiosouse]

I didn't read into anything. You were obvioulsy referring to my post, but, then again, you can do no wrong oh virtuous one.

I wasn't referring to your post oh conceited one, $5K just sounded good. Why is it even when I'm agreeing you're hostile?

I hate to break it to you, but my wife has a graduate degree from Columbia, just as I do, and makes plenty of income as well. I guess in your world, you can't imagine why a woman would love you unless you had money.

If a name drops in the forest, does anybody hear? How's Stepford by the way? Does it make you feel better to meat-a-hoop about your wipe my a$$ with benjamins gear on a site more pitched to entry level headed bargain hound audio nuts than any other? What type of ego stroking reply are you looking for exactly? Oh Sleesy, you so edumacated. Oh Sleesy, you so rich. Oh Sleesy, you just perfect. Oh Sleesy, I wish I were you. See attached.

BTW, been flat broke since 18 when I met my significant, so I KNOW she loves me! Didn't need an Escalade and a two way to scoop a six foot blond bombshell (back then anyway )

To be on this site implies nothing more than an interest in audio/video. Furthermore, get over yourself... "audio pioneers?" Last time I checked there was a diversity of views on this site. What's with the "we" BS. Are you so egocentric that you believe your views and priorities are shared by everyone on this site?

If an audiophile pulls his head out of his ars early, do we get six more weeks of summer? Have you even read the Cable Face Off or ANY receiver review? No...you wouldn't stoop. In case you haven't noticed, the whole point of this site, the sole reason it exists and is thriving is debunking audio myth with scientific fact! Please correct me if I've been surfing in a cave with my Commodore 64.

Next time you want to comment on one of my posts, don't play the passive/aggressive game. Just be direct,... at least people can respect that.

Now THAT sounds like my wife! LOL! For the umpteenth time, I don't give a rat's what you own, buy, etc. I wasn't commenting on your post. PLEASE READ THE LINES.

 

[jaxvon]

Hey, that sign looks familiar...

I actually live near Hell, so "Hell Freezing Over" is quite normal to me actually

 

[Sleestack]

I wasn't referring to your post oh conceited one, $5K just sounded good. Why is it even when I'm agreeing you're hostile?

If a name drops in the forest, does anybody hear? How's Stepford by the way? Does it make you feel better to meat-a-hoop about your wipe my a$$ with benjamins gear on a site more pitched to entry level headed bargain hound audio nuts than any other? What type of ego stroking reply are you looking for exactly? Oh Sleesy, you so edumacated. Oh Sleesy, you so rich. Oh Sleesy, you just perfect. Oh Sleesy, I wish I were you. See attached.

BTW, been flat broke since 18 when I met my significant, so I KNOW she loves me! Didn't need an Escalade and a two way to scoop a six foot blond bombshell (back then anyway )

If an audiophile pulls his head out of his ars early, do we get six more weeks of summer? Have you even read the Cable Face Off or ANY receiver review? No...you wouldn't stoop. In case you haven't noticed, the whole point of this site, the sole reason it exists and is thriving is debunking audio myth with scientific fact! Please correct me if I've been surfing in a cave with my Commodore 64.

Now THAT sounds like my wife! LOL! For the umpteenth time, I don't give a rat's what you own, buy, etc. I wasn't commenting on your post. PLEASE READ THE LINES.

LOL. I guess I hit a nerve.

Really though. This is my original post...

"I have wired my 2 channel setup with 2 sets of cables. One set consisted of all Onix blue cables. The other set is a full set of Cardas Golden Reference. Total cost of the Onix cables was about $500. Total cost of the Cardas Golden Reference was well over $5K.

First, let me say that I have no regrets about buying the Cardas cables... they look great mated with my high end pieces. If I had a tighter budget, I might not feel that way, but I wanted to buy at least one complete set of high end cables so I could really judge for myself.

In any case, my conclusion (which was not the result of any rigorous DBT) is that my system sounds the great with either the Onix Blue and Cardas Golden Ref. cables. I can't hear a difference, nor was I really expecting to. I don't think I will buy another set of esoteric cables unless I want more eye-candy for my systems, but I may do so, despite my findings."


5 posts later you come out with:

" Understanding wives

Many who claim to purchase cables for the jewelry factor must have VERY understanding spouses to let you display your systems in the open with wires running all over the place.

This is why the jewelry factor makes me laugh as I spend most of my time trying to hide cables for a clean install. Mind you, if I spend $5K for cables, I'd probably have them backlit displayed under glass."

You say $5K sounded like a good number and that I was being hostile when you were agreeing with me? Who are you kidding? Given the contentious tone of our past discussions, I think it is very clear that your intent was to comment on my post. Are you truly that disingenuous?

And yes, I have read many reviews and articles here.... many of my purchases, including the Parasound C1/A51, Denon 3910 and 5910, Emotiva DMC/MPS-1, etc., are a direct result of information I have received from here. What's your point?

Furthermore, if you would knock that chip off your shoulder for a second, you would realize I discuss many of the value oriented pieces I own as well. Regardless, this is an audio/video site, isn't it? They seem to review some fairly high end pieces here, so why should I only discuss my affordable gear? I'm not going to be an apologist for having some nice toys.

 

[mtrycrafts]

You know, people keep repeating the rote empty comment that it "must not be any fun" to be so skeptical. But if sure must be damn fun, at least to Mtrycrafts!

Yes, lots of fun


Premise 3- Once you choose your gear and get it home, WHAMMO! All those biases will snap back into place.


Yes, but one will know that the bias factor is at play

 

[mtrycrafts]

Ah, we're friends again.

 

[WmAx]

You know, people keep repeating the rote empty comment that it "must not be any fun" to be so skeptical. But if sure must be damn fun, at least to Mtrycrafts!

Yes, lots of fun

Darn. I can't believe that Rob forgot about WmAx.

-Chris

 

[Rob Babcock]

I didn't mean to slight you, Chris. It's just that you're not quite as dogged and dogmatic as Mtrycrafts. But hey, that gives you somethin' to shoot for!

 

[Rob Babcock]

Ack! 2X post!