Cables Make a Difference

[acoustic]

I'm not the only one who believes cables make a....

big difference.. Here's a quote from world renowned mastering artist Bob Ludwig. I hapen to know personally that his studio is wired in Transparent cable and I know he auditioned hundreds of cables before deciding to wire his entire Gateway Mastering studio in Transparent. Of course expensive cable is just snake oil right??? Here's the quote..


"The solidity in the bass was remarkable. You can clearly hear the difference."

Bob Ludwig, Gateway Mastering

 

[Duffinator]

big difference.. Here's a quote from world renowned mastering artist Bob Ludwig. I hapen to know personally that his studio is wired in Transparent cable and I know he auditioned hundreds of cables before deciding to wire his entire Gateway Mastering studio in Transparent. Of course expensive cable is just snake oil right??? Here's the quote..


"The solidity in the bass was remarkable. You can clearly hear the difference."

Bob Ludwig, Gateway Mastering

Compared to what, rope? I was always suspect of cable manufacturer claims and after spending the past year reading this forum I am even more suspect.

 

[Spiffyfast]

as soon as i see testable proof that they improve sound, or actually see someone bass a double blind test, or pass one myself I'll believe it. Until then Ill stick with the its all B.S. and a cable is a cable as long as its made with decent quality. Any other claims are just self perceived justifications for spending more money on it, but like I always say, if ya have the money to spend on them its no business but ur own what ya do with it.

 

[mtrycrafts]

big difference.. Here's a quote from world renowned mastering artist Bob Ludwig. I hapen to know personally that his studio is wired in Transparent cable and I know he auditioned hundreds of cables before deciding to wire his entire Gateway Mastering studio in Transparent. Of course expensive cable is just snake oil right??? Here's the quote..


"The solidity in the bass was remarkable. You can clearly hear the difference."

Bob Ludwig, Gateway Mastering

So what? Is he immune from bias? From bs?, From audio Voodoo? Mythology?
If he is human, I think not.
How did he establish this seeming fact he claims?

He may know how to master but it appears he knows nothing about bias, testing protocol, etc.
Pass it on to him, please.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

I think the cable thing has been thoroughly debunked by Gene. Anyone who still believes that there is a sound difference between quality cables, probably also believes in the Tooth Fairy, Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny. With everything being connected with Toslink, Digital Coax, iLink/iee1394/firewire, this all becomes a moot point anyway. Read here if your still in doubt. like the other things mentioned, it is a myth and a lie. You know the old proverb "a fool and his money are soon departed" ? That is exactly what the manufactures of such cables rely on.

 

[MDS]

Another world renowned mastering engineer makes essentially the opposite case: 'Mastering Digital Audio: The Art and the Science' by Bob Katz. He is more of the mind that 'well constructed' cables are sonically indistinguishable.

 

[JohnA]

probably also believes in the Tooth Fairy, Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny.

WHAT!!!!! You lie...they are real, they are!!!! It's people like you that have driven them to drink...now they are stuck in AA meetings every week...heck, the Easter Bunny is lucky to be alive after the incident with St. Nick and the fireplace. I can still smell the burnt hare. You know they are real...you just have to believe.

 

[snickelfritz]

"Solidity in the bass" is remarkable with a good loudspeaker, properly set up in a properly treated room, connected to a powerful amplifier with 50¢/ft 12g zip.
You cannot, by means of a $600 set of speaker cables, transform a poor sounding speaker/room combination into a good sounding one.
Nor will a $20 run of 12g zip degrade the sound of a $20,000 set of speakers.

Megabuck systems often are outfitted with expensive esoteric cables, but it's not to improve the sound.
It's just a commensurate appointment, like the burly walnut dash in a Jag, or the perfectly polished and fitted metal and wood surfaces on a Weatherby rifle.

 

[Resident Loser]

And in addition...

big difference.. Here's a quote from world renowned mastering artist Bob Ludwig. I hapen to know personally that his studio is wired in Transparent cable and I know he auditioned hundreds of cables before deciding to wire his entire Gateway Mastering studio in Transparent. Of course expensive cable is just snake oil right??? Here's the quote..


"The solidity in the bass was remarkable. You can clearly hear the difference."

Bob Ludwig, Gateway Mastering

...four out of five doctors recommend____________(insert the drug du jour here)...

Doctors, like other "professionals" tend to endorse products for which they are given "considerations"...namely freebies. If you don't believe me check out the courtesy and complimentary samples and note pads and RX forms with the drug du jour already printed on it(saving the Dr. some time to squeeze in one more fee...er, patient)...and clocks and boxes of tissues and...and...and...

Endorsements, like "Mike Piazza listens to Krell", are just so much hucksterism...

jimHJJ(...besides, everyone knows Monster is the best!!!...)

 

[jaxvon]

Let's just sit down and think here. First off, do you realize that 99.999999% of studios, including the hitmakers, are wired with miles of Belden or Canare cable? And what do you think is inside your electronics? Circuit traces and plain old copper wire.

Secondly, believing that cables make a substantial difference, such as the quote posted above, flies in the face of science. But this science is the same thing that was used to design the equipment and cables all of your music was recorded on, mastered on, listened to, as well as what dictated how your speakers were designed, your amps, etc.

Now this is not to say you've never heard a difference, but whether or not it was a real difference (and therefore easily measurable), or just the result of your brain playing tricks on you is up in the air. I would have to say your brain. Time after time, cables are proven to have no affect on the sound provided they are properly designed.

 

[Duffinator]

Hello acoustic

We're all holding our breath waiting for your response.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Endorsements, like "Mike Piazza listens to Krell", are just so much hucksterism...

jimHJJ(...besides, everyone knows Monster is the best!!!...)

I listen to Krell....when I visit one of the local audio stores

Maybe I should have such an endorsement too, LOL

 

[mtrycrafts]

flies in the face of science.

Since when did that stop anyone on the planet???

Even at the highest seat of power this happens

 

[awdio]

why are any of you nonbelievers even in this forum? Every piece of crappy equipment you own was built by a company who was started by an individual who thought his product was better than everything else. With your logic every receiver or amp or "well designed" speaker should all sound the same. It must be mass hypnosis or some as yet undiscovered disease that makes us all "think" we hear a difference or wait, even better, we hear a difference but we're so stupid we actually think it's a better difference when all along it's just a different difference. We just want to give away all our hard earned money because the government just doesn't tax us enough and we have just too much of it left over and these darned imaginary differences we think we hear are more than happy to unburden us with all this extra cash!
I can't stand it when you guys always resort to the" science says there's no difference" routine. It's tired! Like science hasn't changed it's mind on anything! Scientists have only changed their minds on about thousand things in this century alone.When dealing with speaker cables and electronic equipment for that matter, there are quantum and dynamic effects at work, which are difficult to measure with conventional tests. Great cables don't have to be really expensive but only cable designers who listen to their own product make great cables and the market place determines their price like everthing else.
You guys should go ahead and listen to your $199 receivers( since they all sound the same), your home depot 14 gauge wire (every other cable is B.S.), your $39.99 cd players (bits are bits) and enjoy the almost holographic soundscapes projected before you while the rest of us poor slobs feel around for lint in our empty pockets. This hobby should be fun!

 

[jeffsg4mac]

why are any of you nonbelievers even in this forum? Every piece of crappy equipment you own was built by a company who was started by an individual who thought his product was better than everything else. With your logic every receiver or amp or "well designed" speaker should all sound the same. It must be mass hypnosis or some as yet undiscovered disease that makes us all "think" we hear a difference or wait, even better, we hear a difference but we're so stupid we actually think it's a better difference when all along it's just a different difference. We just want to give away all our hard earned money because the government just doesn't tax us enough and we have just too much of it left over and these darned imaginary differences we think we hear are more than happy to unburden us with all this extra cash!
I can't stand it when you guys always resort to the" science says there's no difference" routine. It's tired! Like science hasn't changed it's mind on anything! Scientists have only changed their minds on about thousand things in this century alone.When dealing with speaker cables and electronic equipment for that matter, there are quantum and dynamic effects at work, which are difficult to measure with conventional tests. Great cables don't have to be really expensive but only cable designers who listen to their own product make great cables and the market place determines their price like everthing else.
You guys should go ahead and listen to your $199 receivers( since they all sound the same), your home depot 14 gauge wire (every other cable is B.S.), your $39.99 cd players (bits are bits) and enjoy the almost holographic soundscapes projected before you while the rest of us poor slobs feel around for lint in our empty pockets. This hobby should be fun!

Dude, I think you missed the point. But if you think $400 cables sound better than $30 ones, then go ahead and buy them. I don't think it is any of us here who are hypnotized though.

 

[Buckle-meister]

I listen to Krell....when I visit one of the local audio stores

Just out of curiosity (seriously), seeing as I have never heard such an expensive setup, how was it?

Regards

 

[jaxvon]

I would definitely say that he missed the point. There's obviously differences between speakers, as with other components. The thing is (I think I posted this earlier on this thread), the scientific principles that are the basis for ALL of your equipment are the same ones that show that as long as a cable is properly designed, it will perform the same as any other cable that is equally well designed. Every other aspect of your system, like brightness, warmth, soundstage, etc. can be defined in terms of measurements. Why then can no hard data be found to show that cables color the sound?

If you want to spend your money on expensive cables because they make a difference, then more power to you. The issue is here, because so many people are building entry-level or mid-level system, they're better off spending their money other places than cables. If you're like Sleestack and can buy $30k worth of Classe gear at the drop of a hat, then it's a different story. You can justify dropping some coin on Cardas Golden Reference or some Transparent stuff. Not even because you think it will have magical effects, but rather because there's no really good reason not to.

 

[markw]

We kinda like our "crappy equipment"., thank you.

why are any of you nonbelievers even in this forum? Every piece of crappy equipment you own was built by a company who was started by an individual who thought his product was better than everything else.

...didn't yo momma tell you that if you can't say anything nice then keep quiet?

Since you find out little friendly site so beneath you and deserving of your contempt, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

The guys are right. You don't get it. With your attitude I doubt you ever will.

Now run along and get involved in a nice little circle jerk with others of your ilk that rave about those wunnerful colored foil thingies the Belts sell and those $500 wooden knobs, and the ones they sell for stereos, too... and don't forget to put your photo in the fridge, too.

 

[Audiosouse]

I'm not the only one who believes cables make a....

Interesting you chose to use the word "believe". Belief has no place here.

You may compare several cables (such as Home Depot 12 ga. vs. expensive esoteric brands as AH has done) and measure them based on known and accepted scientific procedures followed by properly conducted ABX testing to eliminate bias and form a subjective opinion of their "sound". Assuming of coarse esoteric manufacturers will provide you with a sample (which they won't...hmmmmmm). Only after which may you may postulate an opinion.

Please provide us with your back up for such a claim. We would all be very interested to read it.

But if you're financially predisposed, this is a moot point anyway. We live in a society of such excess and abundance that dog's wear diamond studded colars worth more than a good source component. So a few thousand on cables isn't such a big deal I suppose.

However this site isn't meant to be an elitist bragathon (that's called Audiogon). Many are rightfully interested in entry level or best bang for the buck components, myself included. Paying ten times more for a component with no measureable perfmance improvement seems stupid to me. Unless other factors such as name bragging rights and asthetics add value for you, which is an entirely valid point. Just don't claim it performs better, because frankly, we know better.

 

[Privateer]

Every piece of crappy equipment you own was built by a company who was started by an individual who thought his product was better than everything else.

Well if my Mcintosh MX135 is crappy please share what you own.

With your logic every receiver or amp or "well designed" speaker should all sound the same.

Well no, some people on here do think that all amps sound the same as long as the amp is driven within its specified parameters but that is a very small percentage and obviously they are wrong.

I can't stand it when you guys always resort to the" science says there's no difference" routine. It's tired! Like science hasn't changed it's mind on anything! Scientists have only changed their minds on about thousand things in this century alone.

So planes fly just because we are lucky? We landed on the moon just because we are lucky? Hell this whole gravity thing is getting old may be we should change it. Do you understand how silly you sound with a question as stupid as this? Most cable guys do provide proof on why there cables sound different but they are using formulas and theories for the megahertz and gigahertz signals which do not apply to the audible range.

When dealing with speaker cables and electronic equipment for that matter, there are quantum and dynamic effects at work, which are difficult to measure with conventional tests. Great cables don't have to be really expensive but only cable designers who listen to their own product make great cables and the market place determines their price like everthing else.

So it just happens to be that all the "great" designed cables also cost $500 a foot? Is there copper any different then the copper used in a basic cable? As far as I know all copper is mined from the same place on this planet.

This hobby should be fun!

It is fun but you do not have to lie about it. I think people like you would fit in great on a rice burner forum were adding bolt on parts to your honda civic magically increase the horse power by 100, but when the dyno day comes I hear nothing but excuses.