Cable article

[Vaughan Odendaa]

Guys,

Take a look at this :

Why Speaker Cables Are More Than You Think They Are - Audiophile Review

What do you think? I don't agree with the damping factor argument the author is using. What are your thoughts?

 

[JerryLove]

My thought is that his "problem" scenario is 24-gauge aluminum wire; which I don't think even the most diehard of "wire is wire" people have recommended.

His "solution" example is 10-gauge copper (and 12-gauge copper is a common recommendation).

I also think, nay, know: that the wiring guides we reference (such as Roger Russell's) take this into consideration when determining the recommended gauge.

But we knew when he said of dampning "'Dampness' has nothing to do with it.", that this would not be a scholarly article.

Also: he exaggerates his numbers (http://www.cirris.com/testing/resistance/wire.html)

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

But we knew when he said of dampning "'Dampness' has nothing to do with it.", that this would not be a scholarly article.

Why is this?

 

[JerryLove]

Because neither platitudes nor pandering to an audience who might think sound could get "damp" are indicative of a scholarly work.

Though I think you are focusing on the wrong portion of my post. His numbers were exaggerated and his examples were extreme. There's an implicit straw-man fallacy where a reader is likely to assume that there are advocates of 27AWG as speaker wire (which it would take to get .5ohm resistance in 10ft). While I'm sure some exist somewhere; that's not the norm.

Yes. Wire matters. But there's not much that 12AWG copper wire from Home Depot won't handle.

Speaker Wire

 

[Rickster71]

The author of that article is Roger Skoff the same the guy that owns a company that sells $5000 power cords.
http://www.innerearmag.com/reviews/cables/XLO_Purple.shtml
Don't waste your time or money.

 

[3db]

The author of that article is Roger Skoff the same the guy that owns a company that sells $5000 power cords.
The Inner Ear Magazine - Discover High End
Don't waste your time or money.

Another scammer preying on the audiophools. I used to feel sorry for audiophools but not anymore. There blind arrogance to all things subjective to the almighty "golden ear" is beginning to wear thin on my nerves. Thankfully we have this oasis called Audioholics to live in.

 

[gene]

The article has the appearance it was written by a high school physics student. It takes a very simplistic approach to declaring audibility based on an oversimplified calculated difference in cable resistance. That being said, cable resistance is the single most important metric in loudspeaker cable but that doesn't mean if you switch from say 14AWG to 12AWG cable with all other things being equal, that the change would be audible even if the math shows indirectly that the less cable resistance of the 12AWG cable increased the system damping factor.

I wrote an article about cable resistance that gives some general guidelines but doesn't decry audibility:

Speaker Cable Gauge (AWG) Guidelines & Recommendations — Reviews and News from Audioholics

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

Though I think you are focusing on the wrong portion of my post. His numbers were exaggerated and his examples were extreme.

Sure, I agree with you. I don't understand how any cable could possibly affect bass response to such a degree to make it "slow", or cause the cones to move sluggishly or some such nonsense.

Now I'm no EE, but how much influence do speaker cables even have on damping in the first place?

 

[Grador]

Damping factor is proportionate to the resistance of the load on the amplifier. Cable resistance is part of this load.

 

[gene]

Damping Factor

Damping Factor: Effects On System Response — Reviews and News from Audioholics

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

Gene, are there any other glaring issues in that article besides his comments on damping factor?

 

[markw]

Eh?

Gene, are there any other glaring issues in that article besides his comments on damping factor?

AFAICT, the entire posted half page article was about damping factor.

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

Sorry I'm just trying to determine all the facts here.

 

[markw]

Sorry I'm just trying to determine all the facts here.

It looks to me that Gene's article alone answered more than that stoopid article even thought of.

What other "facts" did the article raise that wasn't covered here?

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

I suppose breaking it down in a simplistic form. Genes article went a little over my head, so I'm just trying to apply that to the article so I can figure out how the author was incorrect.

 

[markw]

Really?

I suppose breaking it down in a simplistic form. Genes article went a little over my head, so I'm just trying to apply that to the article so I can figure out how the author was incorrect.

Maybe a few courses in electronics is called for unless, of course, you're just pulling our collective middle leg.

After all, in your first post, you say this

What do you think? I don't agree with the damping factor argument the author is using. What are your thoughts?

Why don't you agree? After all, to say that implies some knowledge of this subject, no?

Yeah, I definitely feel a tugging.

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

No, my intention is not to pull any legs here. I'm a slow learner. Just need a helping hand to understand this, hence the request to explain it to me without going knee deep into math equations.

 

[markw]

No, my intention is not to pull any legs here. I'm a slow learner. Just need a helping hand to understand this, hence the request to explain it to me without going knee deep into math equations.

Gene's article does a pretty dang good job of covering the basic principles in plain English, even ignoring the "hard math". You're gonna have to stretch a little to keep up with the rest of the class, guy.

And, just in case you didn't pick up on it, I really wasn't talking about legs in my previous post.

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

Why don't you agree?

Well, I don't agree that cables on their own can influence damping factor to such a degree to cause bass to sound boomy or uncontrolled. Even amplifier damping isn't hugely important, in my opinion, because once you calculate VC resistance and the resistance in the crossover network the total DF number will be blown to hell, in a manner of speaking.

This is just my uneducated opinion.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

No, my intention is not to pull any legs here. I'm a slow learner. Just need a helping hand to understand this, hence the request to explain it to me without going knee deep into math equations.

I understand you, but the problem is you have two choices:
A) Take what educated and experienced electrical engineers are saying which is science confirmed and peer reviewed as truth and move on or

B) To get and answer to the hard question "WHY" - you would need as suggested to acquire additional education on topics like basics like physics - there are no shortcuts. It took me two years just to scratch the surface of electricity and magnetism and i'm not even engineer