Buying equipment these days: Difficult at best

[darlinsk]

I've been a bit of an audiophile for many years, who hasn't been buying much equipment of late. For some background, we have a few systems in our house:

Main living room stereo (no TV): Rotel separate components with old & much loved ADS speakers
Bedroom: B&O wall mounted unit
Husband's Home Theater: Yamaha receiver with Klipsch Reference speakers (OK for TV; very harsh for music)

I gave up TV years ago because my husband and I have such different interests in programming. But a couple of months ago, I got tired of the situation and went out on a whim and bought myself a 50" Pioneer Elite TV to put in my own room. Now I need a sound system. I just got a Denon 2807 and am researching speaker options.

So, here's the problem. Years ago, in my prime audio purchasing days, there were high end audio stores, with thoughtful, educated staff, and rooms where you could listen. I used to listen for hours, to different equipment, with a set list of music that would exercise different abilities of the systems. And when I bought something, I knew that I loved it, and that it worked for the type of music that I listened to.

Audio/Video marketing is different now. Stores have blaring sound, from all directions, and limited stock. Most of the staff is ill-informed. Real audiophile stores seem to be few and far between. In short, there doesn't seem to be much chance to really listen before buying.

As this will be the fourth system in our house, I'm trying to not spend a fortune on speakers ... definitely under $2000. I've considered the ORBS and the NHT Verve IV. The Orbs are sold via direct marketing, and there is nowhere near me that carries the NHTs. So, I have nothing to go on other than what I read.

How do you all do it? Do you buy sight unseen, solely on expert reviews? It seems risky at best. We bought our Klipsch in one of those blaring stores (Tweeter), and have always been unhappy with them. I don't want to repeat that mistake.

I'd love to hear other people's experience and/or suggestions.

 

[avaserfi]

There still are some high end places, but as you said they are hard to find. If you tell us your location someone might be able to suggest a local dealer for you to go to. Also, most good dealers will let you do an in home audition of the speakers before purchasing so you can make sure your listening environment is good for the speakers.

Many online direct stores offer a free return service on their speakers if you are not satisfied with them and some will even pay shipping both ways. While I haven't had the chance to demo all of them, in fact I have only heard one they surprised me greatly. I would look into av123.com and their x-ls speakers. You can order a pair of the bookshelves and if you don't like them or don't want them they will pay shipping both ways so it is completely risk free. For the price though you will be hard pressed to find better speakers.

There are other brands that are commonly recommended as well but I have not heard them. HSU research, SVSound, Axiom and Aperion are all companies that are internet direct and seem to have pleased many users here. Also, I would suggest contacting these companies directly, in general they have great customer service and will help you decide what will suit your needs.

 

[Johnd]

Welcome to the forum darlisk!

How do we do it? Stick around here and you'll learn a lot from the articles, reviews and forums. Almost all of the info (in the forums) is right on...if it isn't, there are enough knowledgeable guys and mods around here to correct any misinformation/myths quickly.

 

[Martiad3]

I'd also reccommend the AV123 speakers with regards to the no risk in-home trials. Also, drop into their forums as many people there are very helpful and even willing to let you drop by for a demo if you're in the area.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

I was able to buy "sight unseen" simply because both of the brands I bought (Denon and Boston) are ones with which I have had previous experience, so I trusted that their products would be high quality. I was not disappointed, but would not have taken the same chance with unfamiliar brands.
(I miss the days of audio shops being common. Back then, I enjoyed hanging out in them even though I had no money. I am sure the owners loved me!)

 

[Adam]

Welcome!

I'm in agreement with the others. I develop an opinion based on (a) the reviews of products that I read from other people, (b) the reputation of the company, and (c) the risk of losing my money if I don't like the product.

Forums like this are good to get a feel for the products and companies, as are many merchant sites (like Crutchfield and Circuit City). Sure, not all reviews or posts are helpful, but there's usually a trend.

When I talk about the risk of losing my money, I'm talking about the reputation of the company and their return policy. I recently took a chance and bought an SVS sub. BTW, excellent product, even better company. Anyway, I took the chance on the $200 in shipping (total for both ways) to try out the sub. Other places, like AV123, Aperion, and Crutchfield will pay shipping both ways if you decide to return items. For me, that's great. Once you develop a trust in a company, it's easier to accept that it's truly "no" risk.

Auditioning in stores with knowledgeable staff is, as you said, getting more difficult. Auditioning in home by having products delivered directly to your door is much, much easier than it was ten years ago. With several places offering free shipping, it's worth trying those products out.

Adam

 

[Tomorrow]

Howdy and welcome to the forum.

I have a little different take on the new, internet direct (ID) business model. I'm old-school and don't like it. Your situation is particularly dicey in that you will be relying on subjective reviews/opinions of the quality/sound/performance of loudspeakers. Speakers are certainly the most subjective element of audio. So I consider auditioning a must.

I have gone the ID route and have been burned for a lot of shipping money in "shopping" for well-reviewed speakers that I didn't at all like. I've also purchased Hsu subwoofers sound unheard and like them very much. But that was after ID buying a top-class JBL sub that was awful. So it can be a lot of hit-and-miss trials for you to go this route. That AV123 ( http://www.av123.com/) will cover shipping both ways, only on bookshelf speakers, and Aperion ( http://www.aperionaudio.com/catalog/Store,3.aspx ) both ways for all products, pretty much limits your ability to audition free to just those two dealers. (There may be others out there, but I am unaware of them.) Dealing with potential setup - takedown - return shipping is not fun, either, even for free shipping.

My advice? It will be much more satisfying, and you will feel happier ultimately, if you do some research on any quality audio brick & mortor stores within driving range of your home. There is also a network of ID brand buyers out there that offer to open their homes and setups for auditions. It's possible that in your research, when you find a particular ID speaker review that tugs at you, you may have an owner in your town. Check with individual ID websites for those lists of members.

For us old-timers....the process certainly isn't what it used to be. But the equipment being made today is generally pretty first-rate. Much good luck in your search. As in all things, what you put into it...you will get out of it.

 

[OttoMatic]

I have to agree with Tomorrow. Speakers are a critical piece to audition. If you're anywhere near a medium-sized city, you should be able to find a few places. You might have to set up an appointment, but it'll be worth it.

Hit a few speaker websites and see where their nearest dealers are. Chances are that they will also have something you're unfamiliar with that you will like better than the usual suspects.

Have fun!

 

[fmw]

Sounds like you have been doing it better than some audiophiles. Most audiophiles buy what Stereophile and TAS magazines think are good and avoid what they think are bad and, as you know, everything these magazines talk about is subjective. At least you've been buying what you like from personal experience rather than what others like from others' personal opinions.

I'm a former audiophile. I've quit listening to equipment and now I just listen to music instead. My own experience is that what matters is the room, not so much the equipment. My music room is awful acoustically. It sounds just like a mastering room in a studio (in fact I master in it all the time) and nothing at any price will make it sound good. I listen near field and near field listening takes most of the personality out of speakers. No equipment can make that room sound goodl. My home theater room, on the other hand, is pretty good acoustically and everything sounds good in it.

My point is that it may not be as important as you think. I consider speakers to be #2 after room acoustics but in a very distant second place. If your listening room as some character you can often tweak the sound with different placements. If you like the sound of speakers at the dealer, then understand you are listening primarily to the dealer's listening room and secondarily to the speakers themselves. Their performance in your home may be good or bad because the room, not the speakers.

If you buy what someone else likes, you end up with the same situation. What someone else likes in their room, might not be what you like in your room. It all gets down to the room and, whether you buy on line or from a store that allowed you to hear the speakers, it still gets down to the room.

That's why I don't think it is all that important. Buy good quality and at least you know you it won't be detracting from the acoustics of the room. I'm not suggesting that all speakers sound alike. They don't. However, how they sound is more dependent on the room in which they are place than on any inherent characteristic of their own.

Sorry I couldn't be of much more help but I don't consider what I like in my room to be material to your quest at all. What matters is what you like in your room.

 

[cornelius]

I would recommend trying the Orbs. I've had great luck with direct purchases. My main system are Ohms, and bedroom system are the Orb Classic One. Customer service for both was great, nothing beats auditioning at home. I have the experience with my everyday work, to hear the exact some material in an acoustically treated room (recording studio) , and one that is not (my editing room). I have an excellent amp/speaker combo, but it always sounds WAY below its potential.

So, in the consumer world, I never trust the sound of a store's demo room. When I'm ready to shop for a new amp, I'm going to bring in my speakers, so at least I have some sort of an idea on what the room acoustics at the store are doing to the sound.

If you buy direct and keep the speakers, you will definitely save, of course the risk is incurring the return shipping.

 

[rumonkey2]

Quickly Scanned this topic....

...so this may have already been mentioned.
You are likely to find owners of (several mentioned) ID brands at least close to where you live. And it seems most ID brand owners like to frequent forums. Here, AVS & specific ID sites would be a good place to request a "local" audition.
I know when I was planning, I had offers to "stop by & listen" to AV123, Ascend & Aperion (among others) from at least 2-3 people per brand
So, don't think you're limited to auditioning at B&M or "taking a chance" on ID

BTW, I went w/ AV123 Xls & am greatly pleased. The sound, the asthetics/build quality & the $$ were just what I was looking for. Top notch customer service is icing on the cake. And the "forum family" is always welcoming. Enjoy your search!


EDIT: Ok, my advice is somewhat redundant as after I replied I went back to read entire thread - but I hope helpful none the less!