Buying a dedicated CD player?

[ronrags]

I'm in the market to either purchase a dedicated cd player or upgrading my Denon 2200 universal player. I decided to upgrade my system to the next level since I want to get back to listening to 2 channel again. I still enjoy listening to sacd and d-audio, but there is nothing like listening to well defined music coming from 2 channels.

I recently upgraded my KEF Q-series speaker system for the JM Labs Chorus 700 series. I first heard the JM Labs at local dealer and at the HES show in NY last month. My dealer had me compare my KEF Q5 speakers against JM Labs 726v and the Paradigm Studio 60v4. I couldn't believe how harsh the KEF's sounded and lack of soundstage. I've been a KEF owner since '83 when I purchased their reference 103.2 speakers, but changed to the Q-series for home theater back in 2001. I then compared the JM Labs vs the Paradigms and found the JM Labs to have a better midrange and soundstage. The Paradigms did have a deeper and tighter bass, but I preferred the JM Labs overall.

The dealer suggested I also upgrade my speaker wire and interconnects. I was using the middle priced Monster cables (not sure which ones). He suggested some Synergistic Research cables. I borrowed a pair of their signature II cables (a model from a few years back) to try out from a friend at work. I couldn't believe the added detail and soundstage especially with jazz material. I had my wife (not an audiophile) compare the cables and she was able to notice the clarity and smoothness of Sade's voice. My friend didn't need these cables and sold them to me for $50 (retail $600). I went back to my dealer and purchased the Synergistic Alpha cables for the center channel and their Synergy cables for the rears. I then purchased a pair of their Alpha interconnects and replaced the Outlaw interconnects between the Denon and my Outlaw processor. Once again there was added detail and soundstage.

This brings me to the point of this subject. Since I'm upgrading my system especially for 2 channel sound, do I purchase a dedicated cd player or a better universal player? I plan to use the DAC's from the player for the best sound. I was planning to purchase the Denon 3930CI, but my dealer thought there wouldn't be much difference in the video portion vs the 2200 (I own a 55" SONY 1080i LCD RPTV) and the audio portion would be slightly better but not compared to a dedicated cd player. I have no immediate plans to upgrade my tv or plan to purchase a hd player.

I started some research on the Arcam cd73 and the Cambridge Audio Azur 740c.

Check out this comparison between the Arcam, Cambridge, Marantz and Creek Evolution players:

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/assets/documents/Hi-FiNewsJuly740Cgrouptestlicensed.pdf

Looks like I fell into the upgrade trap. There is no limit to upgrading, but I want keep it below $1500. I would really appreciate any opinions or comments.

Thanks, Ron

 

[davidtwotrees]

I can say that my 3910 does some pretty nice two channel music. I have not auditioned any next level stand alone cd players. I think your store tech was right though, if you want your source to go to the next level, I think a stand alone would be a better choice. I am not sure what your music tastes are, but I wouldn't want to give up on sacd. I prefer dvd-a, (i think it sounds better), but sacd seems pretty stable, and the classical side is holding up that format really well, imho, so I would want that in my cd player.
There is a sony scd777es with mods for $1450 on Agon. Then a stock Sony scd777es for like $850 as well on Agon. That player got rave reviews in Sterophile........

 

[ronrags]

David,

I agree not to give up on sacd or dvd-a. I still enjoy both formats especially I recently purchased some great recordings from AIX records. Their discs contain 4 formats on 2 sides. One side contains a recording in 96 khz, 24 bit, 5.1 surround sound and the other side contains 5.1 dts, 5.1 dolby digital and 2 channel. The disc also contains a video of the recording session. I was able to pick them up at a discount since I bought some at the HES show in NY. Check them out at http://aixrecords.com/

I just thought a dedicated cd player would enhance my redbook collection. Lately I listen mostly to jazz and classical, but I still enjoy rock. I plan to visit my dealer this weekend and hope to compare both the Arcam, Cambridge players and the Denon 3930. I prefer to just replace the Denon 2200 if the 3930 could hold its own vs the dedicated players. I'm a little reluctant to purchase a mod if I buy without comparing.

 

[enrique]

curious i'm also changing my denon 2200 actually to another room.Planning on the 3910 or 2900 since i have to go used.The 3930ci would be an excellent choice if i could afford it.good luck on your auditions

 

[Tomorrow]

If you have a decent supply of well recorded discs, then I would highly recommend a stand-alone CDP. Assuming other quality gear, top notch and/or highly modified and upgraded players and transports can be very revealing of the detail on a CD.

If you're interested in further improving what you own, I'd recommend that you investigate a mod-studio in California, Paradox Sound. (I have no relation to them, just a piece of their equipment...a modded JVC XL-Z1050.) But I imagine there are other mod businesses out there that could enhance whatever CDP you end up with.

Good luck in your search.

 

[mike c]

Good luck in your search.

hey, you're a new couch potato!

 

[mike c]

I'd like to have had a 1500 dollar budget ...

I ended up with a low end denon CD player, not because i could hear the difference, but because I needed the features (like fast startup and playing). I specifically chose an older model too, because the new models could read mp3, I didn't want the player to even think of reading my CD's as data discs. as far as my player is concerned, there's no such thing as mp3's.

 

[Tomorrow]

hey, you're a new couch potato!

OMG! I swore to myself I'd quit before that happened. Now it's too late...I've joined the Nuthin' Better Tuh Do Club.

 

[ronrags]

I went to my dealer Friday afternoon to compare the Cambridge vs the Arcam, but unfortunately the dealer didn't have the Cambridge in stock. But my dealer offered me a great deal on the discontinued Arcam DV79 dvd/cd player ($999). I did some reading over the weekend and the reviews were all great for this player, but it doesn't play sacd. Since I have less than 10 titles, I probably be willing to sacrifice sacd. Some of the sacd titles I do have are also on d-audio so there is no big loss. I also went to Tweeter over the weekend and they too didn't have the Cambridge in stock or on display. I did learn is the Cambridge 740c incorporates signal processing that has upsampling which is found in players over $2k.

My dealer recommended I bring my Denon so I can compare both the audio and video vs Arcam DV79. I'll also compare the Arcam DV79 vs their CD73 player and hear if there is any difference from their dedicated player. Since I bought my JM labs there, I'll also be able to compare these players on the same speakers.

 

[mtrycrafts]

My dealer recommended I bring my Denon so I can compare both the audio and video vs Arcam DV79. I'll also compare the Arcam DV79 vs their CD73 player and hear if there is any difference from their dedicated player. Since I bought my JM labs there, I'll also be able to compare these players on the same speakers.

The only issue is with such comparison is bias. Cannot turn it off, cannot control it. Level differences also affect a comparison and you cannot determine this by ear.
I would not worry about having a dedicated CD player, unless it was free

 

[indcrimdefense]

i would also recommend a dedicated cd player, although some highly praised universal players (the ayre for example) play everything but dvd video. the key is to listen & compare, & to make sure that the levels between the various players are matched. when i demoed a cary 300/303 cd player v. a cary dvd7 v. my cary dvd6, there were clear differences between the 3 players, with the 300/303 having a clear sonic superiority over the other 2 players, particularly on large scale classical pieces. for smaller venue jazz there was less of a difference, with the exception of the treble, which both the 300/303 & dvd7 besting my player my a wide margin. i once owned a denon 2910 but sold it after i bought my dvd6. have also demoed twice a 5910 and didn't buy it, but i only evaulated the audio, as i asumed the video would kill my dvd6 which does not upscale video. the 5910 was a better audio player than my dvd6, but it was by a slim margin (even comparing sacd from the 5910 to redbook cd out of the dvd6), & one i was not willing to pay for.

the best redbook cd players i have heard in no particular order: the top of the line dcs player & dac, classe cd player, simaudio cd player, mcintosh 2 channel cd/sacd player, cary 300/303. from my listening experience & alot of home demos, a dedicated cd player can make a significant & worthwhile improvement in music quality.

 

[ronrags]

Last night I auditioned the Arcam DV79 and the CD73 vs my Denon 2200. Beside myself, my brother and dealer took part in this comparison test.

First we compared the DV79 vs the 2200 for video and compared the players using various videos with different qualities. The test was performed on a 32" Toshiba HDTV CRT using $300 component cables(By the way I own a 55" Sony Wega RPTV LCD). We did not use HDMI since the Denon doesn't have the connection. The dealer agreed HDMI wouldn't make a difference on my Sony. I previously did a comparison using HDMI on a Denon 3910 vs the 2200 using component and there was no difference.

The first video was the so-so film-like video from the Babylon 5 tv series to see if the Arcam could inprove the pix quality and no one noticed any improvement. Next we compared an ELP live concert which had many dark scenes and close-ups and again there was no improvement anyone can detect. Last we compared the movie Pearl Harbor and even then there might of been a slight improvement with the detail in some scenes. So we all concluded the video wasn't a factor to upgrade and the dealer was impressed with the video quality of the Denon.

Next we compared cd's, again with the idea of different quality of music and recordings using the JM Labs 826v (I own the 726V which is basically the same). First we compared the best of Sade since the recording was ok and it contained a female voice. There wasn't much difference in the overall sound, but slight difference in the bass response with the DV79. It was then played on the CD73 and the bass was a little tighter and detailed, but not by that much.

The next cd was the hybrid version of Dark Side of the Moon. Again the Acram players did not perform much better than the Denon player. The final cd (forgot the name) was a really good demo recording with a drum solo leading into additional instruments followed by a piano. On this recording the CD73 had a more precise sound than both the Denon or the DV79. The drum was a bit tighter and crisp.

Overall conclusion, if we didn't perform an a/b test, any of the players would have sounded good. The CD73 did sound a tad better only if I concentrated. I bought my first stereo for $700 back in '74 right out of HS. I have owned many pieces of equipment and speakers since then always trying to obtain a better sound (under a certain budget). Sometimes it was a lateral move (financial) and sometimes to the next level. The one thing I have learned is that in order to hear a significant improvement, one needs to jump more than one level at a time. But then again does anyone actually sit down and critique the music quality every time they listen?

 

[ronrags]

PS - I forgot to mention my dealer ordered the Cambridge Audio 740c cd player for his store. I plan to compare this player vs. the Arcam cd73 and also a more expensive Linn player just to hear any differences. I read the Cambridge has upsampling abilities and beat the Arcam, Creek and Marantz players in the same price range. The Cambridge lists for $1100.

 

[dvda-sacd]

The one thing I have learned is that in order to hear a significant improvement, one needs to jump more than one level at a time.

I think the improvement would be slight in any case. In a double-blind test, most people would find it hard to tell the difference between a decent DVD player and a Hi-End CD player.

Cheers!

 

[mtrycrafts]

I think the improvement would be slight in any case. In a double-blind test, most people would find it hard to tell the difference between a decent DVD player and a Hi-End CD player.

Cheers!

I see you are in Spain You know about this club or web site?

http://www.matrixhifi.com/pruebasciegas.htm