Building the perfect beast. . .

[Npeart]

Well, I am ready to put together what I hope will be a very nice system. I have thought long and hard about what I want and, more importantly, what I need. I live in a one bedroom apartment and there are two feet of cinder block that seperates each apartment, but the sound will be easily heard out in the hallway. There are apartments to the left of me and across the hall, but none to the right of me.

The room: the ceilings are 8ft high and the couch and chair are situated 6-7ft away from the TV. At present time, I only have the TV (Sony HD 42" Bravia.) Please see attachment. The room is rectangular in shape and open to the kitchen, but is seperated by a granite breakfast bar, so the apartment is wide open.

Budget: $3,500 for Receiver, CD Player, Blue Ray DVD Player, Speakers, and an IPOD dock that I can run through the receiver (if that's possible.)

Audio or HT: Both are equally important, which is why I am having such a hard time deciding which manufacturers to go with. I need some guidance. I listen to everything from Pink Floyd to Rush to Sinatra to classical, so sound quality is perhaps my highest priority.

I will be buying the system piece meal, so any advice on the-order-in-which-to-buy would be helpful. As I said, I already have the TV, so what's next? And then?

I really want to place a heavy emphasis on buying the best components for the money, which is why I am avoiding an out-of-the-box system. I am really stuck on whether or not to go with floor standing speakers or bookshelf speakers on stands. And if bookshelf, one sub or two?

A couple of noob questions. I notice speakers advertised with the cones exposed (no grille.) Do you folks keep the grilles off your speakers? Does it make a difference in the sound or is it purely aesthetic?

I do not care about BD Live or Satellite radio. Those are two features I can do without.

So there it is. I am building a $3,500 system (All HDMI) that I want to be kick-*** both for music listening AND HT. The only thing I know for certain is I'll tie it all together with Logitech's Harmony One universal remote, but as for individual components and speakers, I'm flat out stuck.

Based on the information and attachment provided, I'd really appreciate any advice or guidance you folks you offer. I've been reading everything I can find, but the more I read the more confusing it gets.

 

[Kai]

Hi Npeart,
Welcome.
Your music taste is similar to my own...and many others as well.
I'll start my comments with speakers. They are perhaps/arguably the most important purchase you will make that will have the longest legs...a great set of speakers that you just love could last easily 20 years. Therefore spending a good deal of the budget on the best speakers you can afford is a wise purchase imo.
Speakers, however, are the most personal choice of gear as well. We all hear a bit differently. Speakers may sound a bit different to us because of this so when we make suggestions they are based on what is pleasing to our ears...may not be regarded the same by you.
Some of the well regarded brands are Def Tech, Polk, Klipsch, Paradigm, etc. My favorite brand is Paradigm and were I in your shoes with your budget I would start with a pair of Studio 20's for fronts and Studio 10's for surrounds. You may be able to get both pair for around $1700 ish. Go to the Paradigm site and search for a local shop...one I know of is wurlitzerstereo.com in Marlborough.
You can use the 20's for fronts and ghost center.
Perhaps you can get away without a sub because of your apartment's size and not wanting to shake up the building though if you want one there are many available that are relatively low in cost that will do the job nicely in such a small space.

You can easily buy a receiver that will satisfy your needs from around $400 to $800. Again we all have our favorites though the major brands do a good job. They do have a bit of a sonic footprint though so you ought to give them a listen and buy what sounds best to you. Yamaha, Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, etc. are all good brands and in the above price range you can get a model in nearly all the brands that will do a great job. I think we are at a peak as far as features go at this time meaning that buying a receiver now will have fairly long legs regarding audio codecs and new connection methods...ie hdmi.

Buy an ipod dock offered by the receiver manufacturer you buy your receiver from. That would seem to work best. Average cost is $100...to me that is excessive, very excessive but that is what they are going for retail. You can pay less by buying online.

I think the Sony 550 blu-ray dvd player will perform very well for your needs though their are other very good brands/models as well. You may want to check out the new offering from Oppo...they are an internet only brand that has been very well regarded for a long time. A good blu-ray player should satisfy your movie and cd music needs and set you back around $500 tops to under $300 depending on what you buy.

Speaker grills: Paradigm says its' grills are sonically designed to remain on during play to get the best dispersion and I've read a couple of reviews that agree with them. I believe the new Studio line is designed to have the grills or or off making no sonic difference. The new Studio's look great either way.

I have the Harmony 1 and it works great with all my gear. I have never had a problem with it in nearly 1 1/2 years of ownership.

My best suggestion is to grab some favorite music cd's or make a compilation cd, like I have, with 6 to 10 favorite songs of varied styles as well as a favorite movie dvd or two and go audition some gear. At this time, considering the economy, you can negotiate a good price...track down some online sellers as well to use their prices as part of the negotiation process...it doesn't hurt but I usually say, and do, I would prefer to buy from a local shop...that too helps.

Good luck, have fun and keep us informed.

 

[nibhaz]

Kai has given you some really good guidance. If you follow what he has said you’ll defiantly be pointed in the right direction.

If I was building a system for $3500 this is approximately how I would prioritize spending my funds.

Importance Ranking

1.) 5.1 Speaker Setup (60% of total budget )

a.L/R Channels: 45% speaker budget​

b.Subwoofer: 30%​

c.Center: 15% Timbre matched to mains critical for convincing front stage in HT​

d.Surrounds: 10% (This is where you can skimp if you need to)​

2.) Receiver (25% of total budget)

a.Amp Section (Needs determined by speakers, room volume, and desired listening level)​

b.Number and types of connections you need​

c.EQ (Biased ranking because I really like Audyssey)​

d.Video Processing (importance determined by VP quality of other​

components)

e.HD Audio Codec decoding (importance BR player dependent)​

3.) Universal /BR Player (10% of total budget)

4.) Everything Else (5 % of total budget)

 

[jostenmeat]

The room: the ceilings are 8ft high and the couch and chair are situated 6-7ft away from the TV. At present time, I only have the TV (Sony HD 42" Bravia.) Please see attachment. The room is rectangular in shape and open to the kitchen, but is seperated by a granite breakfast bar, so the apartment is wide open.

Can you reorient the layout to have the TV on the far right wall, with your back to the kitchen? Lengthwise setup is usually recommended, AND having your ears against any boundary is a bad thing (where muddy bass collects, and also having reflective issues, whether due to inadequate delay or great strength).

Budget: $3,500 for Receiver, CD Player, Blue Ray DVD Player, Speakers, and an IPOD dock that I can run through the receiver (if that's possible.)

Fantastic budget. This is easy. Speakers Speakers Speakers Speakers Speakers Speakers. Go listen to them. In the case that you're afraid dealers won't take you seriously, bring notepad, spl meter, and your favorite discs. Listen to as many as possible before your head blows up. Mine blew up at around 25 pairs. The rest is easy, believe it or not. Speakers are just about everything.

For your other considerations, buy your cabling at Monoprice. Yep, I just saved you hundreds. For your remote, you can also consider the URC RF20/blaster system for $80. I prefer it to every Harmony made, but that's just me. BDP, get the Panasonic BD60 (or BD80 if nonHDMI receiver). It will offer you the best BD PQ for the dollar, let alone the host of other things you benefit from by purchasing from the company that owns all of the BD patents. If thinking about SACD/DVDA, look towards Oppo for mebbe double the price.

As for nibhaz's take on #2, I say forget VP entirely, don't worry about connections (they all have plenty, except the entry level, but you have a nice budget). Honestly, EQ is by far and away the most important thing to me in choosing receiver/pre. (For instance, if I had $$$$ I'd get the ARC eq in Anthem, less $$$$ mebbe try Trinnov with Outlaw, and less $$$ the Audyssey MEQ XT that I have now). I'm not saying the others are superior, but I would research for sure, for I have been maintaining that good autoEQ is the most value rich feature in a receiver for a while now. For everything else means little to me. As long as the amp is adequate or it at least has preouts.

Audio or HT: Both are equally important, which is why I am having such a hard time deciding which manufacturers to go with. I need some guidance. I listen to everything from Pink Floyd to Rush to Sinatra to classical, so sound quality is perhaps my highest priority.

Speakers Speakers Speakers Speakers. You might consider acoustical panels, whether DIY or not.

I will be buying the system piece meal, so any advice on the-order-in-which-to-buy would be helpful. As I said, I already have the TV, so what's next? And then?

I really want to place a heavy emphasis on buying the best components for the money, which is why I am avoiding an out-of-the-box system. I am really stuck on whether or not to go with floor standing speakers or bookshelf speakers on stands. And if bookshelf, one sub or two?

Speakers Speakers Speakers Speakers. Later add a sub. you can always decide if you want a second one later. You will be afforded plenty of time to think about it, and research.

A couple of noob questions. I notice speakers advertised with the cones exposed (no grille.) Do you folks keep the grilles off your speakers? Does it make a difference in the sound or is it purely aesthetic?

Aesthetic.

So there it is. I am building a $3,500 system (All HDMI) that I want to be kick-*** both for music listening AND HT. The only thing I know for certain is I'll tie it all together with Logitech's Harmony One universal remote, but as for individual components and speakers, I'm flat out stuck.

See above.

Based on the information and attachment provided, I'd really appreciate any advice or guidance you folks you offer. I've been reading everything I can find, but the more I read the more confusing it gets.

You'll be just fine. Trust me on that.

 

[nibhaz]

As for nibhaz's take on #2, I say forget VP entirely, don't worry about connections (they all have plenty, except the entry level, but you have a nice budget). Honestly, EQ is by far and away the most important thing to me in choosing receiver/pre. (For instance, if I had $$$$ I'd get the ARC eq in Anthem, less $$$$ mebbe try Trinnov with Outlaw, and less $$$ the Audyssey MEQ XT that I have now). I'm not saying the others are superior, but I would research for sure, for I have been maintaining that good autoEQ is the most value rich feature in a receiver for a while now. For everything else means little to me. As long as the amp is adequate or it at least has preouts.

My primary point with connections is that you need to be forward thinking...I'm talking about HDMI inputs.

I have four HDMI inputs on my receiver and I'm currently using 3. I'm kind of thinking about an SACD player that will output over HDMI, so then I'd be full. Sure, I could always revert back to a legacy connection, but I'm spoiled now.

Other than that, jostenmeat was more frank in his opinion, and you should heed his advice concerning EQ, I’m in total agreement with his position concerning this matter

 

[Npeart]

Wow, thanks so much for these detailed and amazing replies.

Paradigm is definitely a speaker I planned on listening to, so thanks Kai. I had a look at your set-up and I did not see surrounds. You only running 3.1 there? Those 11's look amazing!

I really like the look of the 20's and 10's you suggested. My problem is running speaking wire to the surrounds. I can't have speaker wire just strewn across my living room floor. Plus, the 10's are a little larger than I envisioned for surrounds, but I'm sure I could get used to them.

I found your suggestion of a Sony BD interesting. My impression was the Panasonic players are superior. Thoughts? And yes, I will be making a homemade CD of my favs to take for speaker testing.

Nibhaz, that budget breakdown is incredible. Really impressive, thanks. I shall follow it.

Few questions: how does one precisely go about matching the center timbre to the mains? I'm inclined to purchase a center from the same manufacturer as the mains.

Skimp on surrounds? Would you consider the 10's overkill or skimping?

Ok, EQ: I'm lost here. Are you suggesting a stand alone eq or a built-in eq? I plan on getting a good receiver, so am I correct in assuming auto eq would be a feature in a midrange receiver? Also, what exactly am I looking for from a stand alone versus a built-in auto?

Jostenmeat:

Yes, sir. I can rearrange the room, but running the speaker wire to the surrounds is going to be a nightmare regardless of the set-up. Anyone have any tips or ideas on how to conceal the wires? I cannot drill and run through the ceiling.

Spl Meter???

 

[nibhaz]

I’m at work so I only have time to address one of your questions.

The easiest and best way to ensure that your front three speakers are timbre or voice matched is to use the same three speakers, simple right.

However, due to space and budgets we often have to make compromises so, the next best option would be to use a bookshelf speaker as your center. It would need to be from the same company and within the same speaker line as you mains. The benefit of going this route is that you’ll have superior horizontal dispersion at the sacrifice of vertical dispersion, as compared to the common MTM design used for most center channels. In order for this to be a good option, your setup needs to have the space so that you can have the tweeter at or near ear level.

The third option is to use a “center channel “speaker from the same company and within same speaker line as your L/Rs. The most common form factor for these types of speakers is MTM. When laid on their side they have excellent vertical dispersion, which allows for the speaker to be place significantly above or below ear level. (Above and below your screen or TV) The trade off is that you lose accurate horizontal dispersion, which means that seating positions not directly in front of, or significantly off axis will not get the best sound. If the MTM is ported, there are often differences in the horizontal dispersion between the side that has the port and the side that doesn’t, so if you’re really crazy, you have to think about which way you lay the speaker. However, if your primary listening position is merely a couch wide, then you don’t really need to get too hung up on these little details.

So in short, the center should be from the same brand and from the same line as your L/R channels.

 

[jostenmeat]

Jostenmeat:

Yes, sir. I can rearrange the room, but running the speaker wire to the surrounds is going to be a nightmare regardless of the set-up. Anyone have any tips or ideas on how to conceal the wires? I cannot drill and run through the ceiling.

Just google something like "speaker wire concealment". Here is the first result I clicked on, for instance:
http://cableorganizer.com/articles/Which-Speaker-Wire-Cover.html

Spl Meter???

Probably overkill. However, if you "level match" your listening sessions, then you will benefit from more of an apples to apples comparison. (I've been told in blind listening tests, the subjects will invariably prefer the louder speakers, for instance).

OTOH, I'm actually not adamant about matching the volumes for auditions, because I think speakers can sound so different, that a lot can be taken away from them without level matching. Arguably overkill, but beneficial nevertheless. Most use a Radio Shack meter as their choice.

 

[Mike19]

Hi Npeart.
You have already received very good advice.

I'll add this:
> Blu Ray Player. Panasonic over Sony at your price point. Most of the big companies offer models at $500 and $300. They are about the same except the $500 models have multiple analog input connections for older TVs that do not have HDMI or other digital outputs. You probably do not need this.

Something radical: If you listen to a lot of stereo music and plan on upgrading your system over the next 3 to 5 years and/or moving to larger living quarters, consider putting the entire budget into just the BDP, a mid grade 7.1 receiver w/ preouts (providing the ability to add additional amps in the future) and the rest on a pair of floorstanding speakers. You can add a sub, center channel speaker and surround speakers in the future. I have seen too many instances where somone buys a "budget" 5.1 or 7.1 system and then within a year is unhappy with the sound - usually not enough subwoofer and/or front left & right speakers.

My suggested base system:
> $100 for surge surpressor, speaker wires and HDMI cables.

> BDP - Panasonic BD 60K $260 @ J&R Audio online

> AVR - Onkyo 706 $800 @ J&R http://www.jr.com/onkyo/pe/ONK_TXSR706B/

> Speakers (all of which are part of a series that includes centers and surrounds for future addition):
> Dali Ikon6 $1,990 pr. list
> PSB Imagine T $2,000 pr list
> Polk RT1 A9 $1,750 pr list
> Klipsch RF-63 $$2,000 pr http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/rf-63.aspx

There are many other very good speakers in the $2000/pr range. The important thing is to compare by audition. Speakers do not sound alike. The other important thing is top get main speakers that are part of a series that includes center and surround speakers for future additons of compatible speakers.

Have fun shopping!

Mike

 

[jostenmeat]

A thread for you npeart

What order to audition towers and where? (Boston area)

There is a poster in that thread that I trust quite a bit, Jonomega. He helped me quite a bit in understanding the basics of room acoustics when I first began the journey to treat my space. And he happens to be an obsessed audiophile. And he happens to have perfect pitch and gets paid to tune pipe organs, though that stuff has nothing to do with his education. And he happens to be a nice guy.

 

[MatthewB.]

Npeart, I also concur with Paradigm Studio 20's is just a fabulous speaker, if money is tight then consider the DefTech Studio 450's (6th Ave has them on closeout for 248.00/pr with 50.00 shipping if a store isnt close by) so for 900.00 you can get six speakers (all timbre matched and all speakers the same all the way around for a 6.1 setup) and I suggest a sub from SVS or Hsu to compliment the Paradigms or DT's (both speakers will go low enough to blend in quite well wiith a great sub (both will easily hit 60Hz) The sub should be around 500-700 depending on model (or better yet get a great B-Stock for 700.00).

In your OP you said you needed money for a DVD player, CD player and Bluray. I would suggest just buying a Bluray player and letting it do it all for you. The Panasonic BD55 can be had for 300.00 and wil handle all you need or the Sony 550 for the same amount.

So far we are at about 1,000 speakers, 700.00 sub and 300.00 for the CD/DVD/Bluray player leaving you 1,500 for a receiver. I would suggest the Denon 3808ci at 1,000 leaving you 500.00 for room acoustics and cables (blue jeans or monoprice to save you some serious money for all your speakers) or 500.00 for the Universla remote and cables without room acoustics, but you will find room acoustics are the cheapest thing you can do to get the most out of sound performance. This would be an awesome setup and only my opinon. I have put together about 100 HT systems for family friends and clients (it's a hobby) and for your budget I would go.

Denon 3808ci 1,000
DT Studio Monitor 450's (six speakers) 900.00
SVS PB12 NSD 569.00
Sony 550 Bluray player 325.00
Harmony One 250.00

This equals 3,044 leaving 466.00 fror room acoustics and cables.

BTW the DefTech 450's were professionaly reviewed and was found that it's mid range and tweeter matched the B&W 800 Matrix exactly for far less money.

 

[Sounds Good]

i quickly read through some of the posts so i am not sure where you are at, but here is my .02c...

here is how i went about building my theater...

i splurged on the receiver first... then bought a set of speakers to "hold me over" until i figure out what i am doing... ie dedicated theater room, hd audio, ect ect... then i am waiting to buy the oppo bd player and tv because that technology seams to change weekly...

so i recommend....

good deals can be found online on receivers, i just picked up a onkyo 876 for like 1099... so you can defiantly get a good receiver on your budget... maybe even consider outlaw...

i would probably forget about 7.1 and focus on 5.1 to save some money... axiom and ascend have very good setups for budget minded people... i currently have the energy take series speakers and sub... i bought them to "hold me over" but have had them for around 5 years now... imo they are GREAT and ive seen them on ebay for under 300... you defiantly cant go wrong with them...

as for a sub... svs has good stuff thats very reasonable, especially their b stock. the sub that i got with the energy take set up is very nice. or you could DIY....


dont forget extras... bd movies, quality interconnects... and beer and popcorn for your first movie night...


good luck and there are a lot of in the know people around here... dont be afraid to ask...

 

[Npeart]

Ok. . . well, it's was a fun day. I went down to Spearit Sound here in Boston and listened to the Paradigm 20's and B&W CM5's. Now, I'll preface this by saying I am by no means a trained ear. BUT. . .the CM5's were clearly the better speaker for one simple reason: BASS.

Here are the songs I burned on a CD to bring for listening:

Money - Pink Floyd
Time stand still - Rush
Mozart's 4th Symphony
Beethoven's Funeral March
Italia Vitta - Luciano Pavorotti
Just like Heaven - The Cure
Shine on - Pink Floyd
Rhythm Method - Neil Peart (drum instrumental)
Castellorizon - David Gilmour (guitar instrumental)
Right now - Van Halen
Kashmir - Led Zeppelin
Kind of Blue - Miles Davis
Two Step - Dave Matthews Band
Airplane - Gary Numan (synthesizer instrumental)

Interestingly enough, it was the opera and classical songs that really stood out. The B&W's just flat out sounded better.

Now, the Paradigms retail for $1,200, while the CM5's are $1,500. Since the CM5's are a brand new release, does that give me more or less wiggle room for negotiating a lower price? What is a fair offer for the CM5's? I was thinking $1,350? Too high? Too low?

Is there another brand of speaker in the $1,300-$1,500 dollar range I should give a listen to BEFORE I settle on the B&W's? Those speakers really impressed me.

That said, I don't want to settle for the first pair I hear that I like. Although from everything I've read, it's hard to top B&W's.

Thoughts?

 

[Sounds Good]

i had to go back to the first page to make sure i was reading the right thread...

let me get this right... you have budgeted $3500 for pretty much everything but a tv and stand? out of curiosity, is there a reason that your looking at towers that are >1100 a pair? you would still have at minimum 3 more plus a sub possible to buy.

i know speakers are important... but for a one bedroom apartment i dont think i would be putting that kind of money in speakers... id spend the coin on other factors that are never going to change no matter where you live... ie, BD player, possibly receiver, interconnects, maybe sub...

 

[MatthewB.]

I would never choose a speaker based on bass performance, because this is what an outbaord sub will handle and better. Always choose a speaker based on how clearly it can hanlde the mid range and tweeter, then pair it up with a great sub for the great bass you are seeking.

As far as shopping goes, I would spend the most on speakers, because these are going to be the final say in how everything you hear is. Crappy speakers with a great reciever will still sound crappy, great speakers with a 500.00 reciever will sound fantastic. Speakers will always be the most important link in this food chain.

 

[axle_rose]

I think there is a lot of great advice here for you to get started. I agree with the most posters that speakers are your most important long-leg investment...that being said, I learned the hard way on that. Not to mention my budget was real tight starting out...I think I started with some Polk Audio bookshelf styled fronts, Kenwood center and rears (borrowed from an old pro-logic theater kit) and a Tandy Subwoofer. Hell it wasn't much to look at but, with correct speaker placement, I achieved pretty good listening results. One of my favorite "tricks" is corner loading the sub...I think that helps fill the room with explosions and other low-end ear candy. Also, I bought four accoustic pads for the wall that i have placed above each front and rear speaker.

After I got more familiar with the technology, I started upgrading speakers. Currently, I use the Athena Audition AS-F2 for my fronts, Polk Audio CSR for the center channel, Boston Acoustic rears, my trusty old AR Sub and my new Velodyne VX-10. I rarely buy new unless the deal is really good. I got the BA rears for $99, The Polk CSR for $75, The Athena's for $300, The Velodyne sub for $163, the AR sub (nine years ago) for $125.

There are some real good resources on here that are far above beyond what I know or have for current equipment and you should be able to get something together on any budget.

 

[Npeart]

i had to go back to the first page to make sure i was reading the right thread...

let me get this right... you have budgeted $3500 for pretty much everything but a tv and stand? out of curiosity, is there a reason that your looking at towers that are >1100 a pair? you would still have at minimum 3 more plus a sub possible to buy.

i know speakers are important... but for a one bedroom apartment i dont think i would be putting that kind of money in speakers... id spend the coin on other factors that are never going to change no matter where you live... ie, BD player, possibly receiver, interconnects, maybe sub...

Yes, TV and stand are all set.

The two pairs I listened to yesterday are bookshelf speakers. I planned on spending 60% of the budget on speakers, as was previously suggested. I will not live in a one-bedroom apartment forever, so I suppose I am buying a system that IS more than I need for where I presently live, but an eye toward the future as well.

I am not adverse to going over budget for the right equipment. Given that I am assembling the system piece meal, I can be patient and find the right parts I want and even go $500 over budget. The BD will only cost $300. A cd player in the same range or a bit more. The receiver around $700.

So if I get the B&W's for $1500 (hopefully less) that still leaves $700 for surrounds and a sub, so I will probably go over. The stands for the speakers are another matter entirely, and it's annoying how expensive they are.

 

[jostenmeat]

Now, the Paradigms retail for $1,200, while the CM5's are $1,500. Since the CM5's are a brand new release, does that give me more or less wiggle room for negotiating a lower price?

Less, but who cares.

What is a fair offer for the CM5's? I was thinking $1,350? Too high? Too low?

Seems very reasonable to me.

Is there another brand of speaker in the $1,300-$1,500 dollar range I should give a listen to BEFORE I settle on the B&W's? Those speakers really impressed me.

More than you can shake a stick at. Did you read the thread I linked? Close to you are also Dynaudio, Era, Linn, Martin Logan, PSB, Energy, Revel, Dali, Monitor Audio, Gallo . . .

Thoughts?

Meh, sure, why not!? Two more little offerings: Internet direct, and used classifieds. At less than $1k, the Sierra1 makes my short list. In fact, it might be the only speaker on the list!
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM1/srm1.html
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/bookshelf/ascend-acoustics-sierra-1

In fact, after deciding on your favorite pair in the store, Id still encourage to try the 30day trial.

At $2k, Salk song towers come to mind
http://www.salksound.com/speakers_songseries_songtowerqwt.shtml

for classifieds, after a tiny bit of browsing I found
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1245627818&/Dynaudio-Audience-72-Cherry
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1246750261&/PSB-Synchrony-One-B

The stands for the speakers are another matter entirely, and it's annoying how expensive they are.

http://www.racksandstands.com/
http://www.standsandmounts.com/



***** long story short:

Please bear in my mind just how much the room affects what you hear, and that does include bass. Maybe setup is an issue as well. Were they running the BW as full range, and the Paradigms xover'd? I know it's sad, but you can't trust everybody in an AV store to know what's going on. Always ask.

If they don't mind, setup an appt/time, where you can "hog" a room for a while. Have them, in advance, bring a few pairs of speakers that interest you, in the same room. This will be much more of an apples to apples contest, and I might repeat the idea of bringing an spl meter to level match.

just keep listening. exhaust your local resources. some people would kill to have so much around them.

 

[lsiberian]

Ok. . . well, it's was a fun day. I went down to Spearit Sound here in Boston and listened to the Paradigm 20's and B&W CM5's. Now, I'll preface this by saying I am by no means a trained ear. BUT. . .the CM5's were clearly the better speaker for one simple reason: BASS.

Here are the songs I burned on a CD to bring for listening:

Money - Pink Floyd
Time stand still - Rush
Mozart's 4th Symphony
Beethoven's Funeral March
Italia Vitta - Luciano Pavorotti
Just like Heaven - The Cure
Shine on - Pink Floyd
Rhythm Method - Neil Peart (drum instrumental)
Castellorizon - David Gilmour (guitar instrumental)
Right now - Van Halen
Kashmir - Led Zeppelin
Kind of Blue - Miles Davis
Two Step - Dave Matthews Band
Airplane - Gary Numan (synthesizer instrumental)

Interestingly enough, it was the opera and classical songs that really stood out. The B&W's just flat out sounded better.

Now, the Paradigms retail for $1,200, while the CM5's are $1,500. Since the CM5's are a brand new release, does that give me more or less wiggle room for negotiating a lower price? What is a fair offer for the CM5's? I was thinking $1,350? Too high? Too low?

Is there another brand of speaker in the $1,300-$1,500 dollar range I should give a listen to BEFORE I settle on the B&W's? Those speakers really impressed me.

That said, I don't want to settle for the first pair I hear that I like. Although from everything I've read, it's hard to top B&W's.

Thoughts?

I agree. I think B&Ws are better, but that's why they cost more. B&W is a very well respected company with excellent cabinet construction. Paradigm is no slouch though. They make great speakers. Remember subs can be used to help with bass.

600 dollars is enough for a sub to complement the paradigms low response. So take that under advisement.

Remember to go play with lots of receivers. You want one that fits your personality.

 

[MatthewB.]

Wait let me get this right? you want to spend 1,500 for the mains and only 700 for the surrounds and subwoofer.

I think your money would be better well spent using the total 2200 for matching speakers that sound good all around and an awesome sub, because if you short change the sub and surrounds your gonna notice this. Hence why I suggested the DT Studio Monitors which in a professional review matched the B&W 801 Matrix speakers in mid range and tweeters and that can be had for 900.00 for six speakers leaving enough for a fantastic sub which I think you will enjoy far more than just great speakers as mains and mediocre sub and surrounds.