Building My Dream System: Need Your Help...

HEET SEEKER R1

HEET SEEKER R1

Enthusiast
Already bought...

- Sony 34' XBR Widescreen HDTV

- Denon 3910 S DVD Player

- Highest End Monster Cables

Interested in...

Definitive Mythos Speakers...

Don't know which receiver to buy...

Was told to buy at least the Denon 3805 Reciever at ABT...

Then I go to Best Buy and the specialists tells me that their $800 Yamaha Receiver will blow away the $1,200 Denon. Tells me that Denon has the highest markup of the three top end makers: Denon, Yamaha and Onkyo...

I want to build a high end setup...the only problem is the size of my room isn't very big...so I might not be able to have rear speakers...

I'm a 22 year college student so price is somewhat of an issue however I don't like to compromise on quality if I don't have to...

Whats the best receiver money can buy for under $1,500?

Thanks.

Of the three: Denon, Yamaha, and Onyo...which is the highest end receiver quality wise? :confused:

Thanks.


Keep in mind that I'm new to this higher end home theater stuff...
 
HEET SEEKER R1

HEET SEEKER R1

Enthusiast
At least help me with the receiver question...

Of the following brands which is the most prestigous?

A.) Yamaha

B.) Denon

C.) Onkyo

I know there all top of the line or at least thats what I have been told. I also know they're close but for bragging rights which one the brands is all-around best receiver wise?

My primary concerns...

1.) Reliability/Build Quality

2.) Performance/Sound

I was told that Denon makes the best DVD players...so thats what I bought but when it comes to receivers its hard to tell...

I'm looking to spend to no more than $2,000 on a receiver.

Please help guys cause I don't what to think...Every place I go tells me something different...

I never thought home theater stuff would be so complicated...and expensive... :rolleyes: :) :cool: :D ;) :p
 
Rob Babcock

Rob Babcock

Moderator
Surprise, surprise...the Best Buy kid tells you the Denon sucks but the Yammie is great. Wonder which brand they carry? ;) Rule #1: practically everyone at BB is an idiot. Oh, sure, by dumb luck you might talk to a kid who happens to know his stuff, but that's the exception that proves the rule. At any rate, the Denon 3805 is a stupendously good receiver. I believe you can read a review of it here at AH (I think it was posted already- if not, there's plenty o' rave reviews of it in many respectible mags, online and off).

The $1k receiver price point is hotly contested, and all the big makers try to stay competitive. Denon is always a top contender, but in truth all the good companies make a pretty good HT receiver for that money. Go with the one who's remote you like the best. That will be your main interaction with the unit, so be sure you're comfortable with it. That's the only area the 3805 has been criticized, BTW. Note: depending upon your needs, you can get 95% of the technology of the Denon AVR-3805 for a few hundred less in the AVR-2805. It will have a little less power and a couple less inputs, but should still be "more receiver" than you'll need. If you can afford it, the 3805 is well worth it, though.

It's hard to give advice on speakers. Opinions vary wildly, and it depends upon your personal preference and your listening habits. Will it be for music, or mostly HT? What type of music do you listen to? How loud do you play your movies & music? How many will typically watch a film at one time?

My own feeling is that Def Tech speakers aren't a great value for the money- but I'm sure that there're half a dozen guys here who'd disagree with me. That's something you'll have to find out by listening. Top sound-per-dollar companies: Athena, Axiom, Epos, Monitor Audio, Paradigm, PSB, nOrh & Energy, just to name a few. There are others, but the ones listed here make very nice speakers for not a lot of cash.

You're off to a great start with the TV & DVD player. You probably greatly overspent on the cables, but you live and learn. :p A good sub is a near necessity for HT, and a boon with music, too. Hsu Research, Adire, SVS, Outlaw & Axiom all make some good subs that won't break the bank.

One possible rig:

Receiver: Denon AVR-2805. $900 MSRP, about $825 "street" from auth dealer.

Speakers:
Mains: Monitor Audio Bronze B4. 2-way towers with good bass & dynamics, excellent sound. Synergistic with Denon, IMO. About $425/pr.
Center: Monitor Audio Bronze Center. 2 & 1/2 way speaker minimizes lobing d/t horizontal layout. Dynamic with good bass. Approx $200.
Surrounds: Monitor Audio BFX. Can be wall mounted and configured as bipole or dipole as you desire. Bass response is consistent in either config, unlike many dipoles. Available in white, too, to match walls. Approx $300/pr.

Sub:
Hsu Research STF-2. 10" powered sub, 200 W amp. Single tuning frequency with superb extension and great output. Very tight and musical, yet capable of room shaking HT bass. Factory direct from HSU for $399 + $25 shipping.

This would be a superb system for both music and HT. The MA speakers are very synergistic with the Denon gear and are fantastic for the money. They're very detailed with a tremendous midrange. The Hsu sub will improve the dynamics and extend the bass solidly down to the 25 hz range. It would satisfy many people for many years. Bear in mind, this is a low/mid price rig, depending upon your point of view. MA makes 2 lines above the entry level Bronze's, and each step up gives you better sound. But the Bronze's are a great blend of clarity and power at a very low price. The total damage would be about $2100, give or take, and you'd be hard pressed to come up with a better all-around system for the money.

But it's only one option. This is the best time in history to get into HT, and good sound has never been so cheap. This forum is a great place to start, but ultimately you'll have to listen for yourself to see what floats your boat.
 
Last edited:
HEET SEEKER R1

HEET SEEKER R1

Enthusiast
$1,000-$2,000 price range...

Rob Babcock said:
Surprise, surprise...the Best Buy kid tells you the Denon sucks but the Yammie is great. Wonder which brand they carry? ;) Rule #1: practically everyone at BB is an idiot. Oh, sure, by dumb luck you might talk to a kid who happens to know his stuff, but that's the exception that proves the rule. At any rate, the Denon 3805 is a stupendously good receiver. I believe you can read a review of it here at AH (I think it was posted already- if not, there's plenty o' rave reviews of it in many respectible mags, online and off).

The $1k receiver price point is hotly contested, and all the big makers try to stay competitive. Denon is always a top contender, but in truth all the good companies make a pretty good HT receiver for that money. Go with the one who's remote you like the best. That will be your main interaction with the unit, so be sure you're comfortable with it. That's the only area the 3805 has been criticized, BTW. Note: depending upon your needs, you can get 95% of the technology of the Denon AVR-3805 for a few hundred less in the AVR-2805. It will have a little less power and a couple less inputs, but should still be "more receiver" than you'll need.

It's hard to give advice on speakers. Opinions vary wildly, and it depends upon your personal preference and your listening habits. Will it be for music, or mostly HT? What type of music do you listen to? How loud do you play your movies & music? How many will typically watch a film at one time?

My own feeling is that Def Tech speakers aren't a great value for the money- but I'm sure that there're half a dozen guys here who'd disagree with me. That's something you'll have to find out by listening. Top sound-per-dollar companies: Athena, Axiom, Epos, Monitor Audio, Paradigm, PSB, nOrh & Energy, just to name a few. There are others, but the ones listed here make very nice speakers for not a lot of cash.

You're off to a great start with the TV & DVD player. You probably greatly overspent on the cables, but you live and learn. :p A good sub is a near necessity for HT, and a boon with music, too. Hsu Research, Adire, SVS, Outlaw & Axiom all make some good subs that won't break the bank.

One possible rig:

Receiver: Denon AVR-2805. $900 MSRP, about $825 "street" from auth dealer.

Speakers:
Mains: Monitor Audio Bronze B4. 2-way towers with good bass & dynamics, excellent sound. Synergistic with Denon, IMO. About $425/pr.
Center: Monitor Audio Bronze Center. 2 & 1/2 way speaker minimizes lobing d/t horizontal layout. Dynamic with good bass. Approx $200.
Surrounds: Monitor Audio BFX. Can be wall mounted and configured as bipole or dipole as you desire. Bass response is consistent in either config, unlike many dipoles. Available in white, too, to match walls. Approx $300/pr.

Sub:
Hsu Research STF-2. 10" powered sub, 200 W amp. Single tuning frequency with superb extension and great output. Very tight and musical, yet capable of room shaking HT bass. Factory direct from HSU for $399 + $25 shipping.

This would be a superb system for both music and HT. The MA speakers are very synergistic with the Denon gear and are fantastic for the money. They're very detailed with a tremendous midrange. The Hsu sub will improve the dynamics and extend the bass solidly down to the 25 hz range. It would satisfy many people for many years. Bear in mind, this is a low/mid price rig, depending upon your point of view. MA makes 2 lines above the entry level Bronze's, and each step up gives you better sound. But the Bronze's are a great blend of clarity and power at a very low price. The total damage would be about $2100, give or take, and you'd be hard pressed to come up with a better all-around system for the money.

But it's only one option. This is the best time in history to get into HT, and good sound has never been so cheap. This forum is a great place to start, but ultimately you'll have to listen for yourself to see what floats your boat.
Wow!! Thanks for your valuable information, it is greatly appreciated.

I'll definitely take what you said into consideration.

My setup will be used primarily for DVD movies...I have another setup for music already that I'm happy with. I like to play my films pretty loud.

Whats the best possible receiver money can buy between $1,000-$2,000?

Put it this way...if you could get any reciever in the $1,000 to $2,000 price range for free which would you choose?

Thanks.

I want to buy the best possible reciever I can afford...even if its just a tad better I will buy it as long as I can afford it.

Thanks.
 
L

Leprkon

Audioholic General
Rob Babcock said:
This is the best time in history to get into HT, and good sound has never been so cheap. This forum is a great place to start, but ultimately you'll have to listen for yourself to see what floats your boat.
it's the best of times... it's the worst of times...

while it's true that quality sound has never been so cheap, it's also true that sound has never been quite so unsettled.. with everything from "true" (or "native") 7.1 encryption on a disk to Blue-Ray versus HDCD and component versus DVI versus HDMI video inputs to all be shaking out (in theory) within the next 18 months, nearly every major function of an A/V receiver is in a state of flux.

the days of the long-term stability of a standard DVD (10 years) and even-longer term stability of CD (nearly 20) are ending as we knew them. Today's purchase has never been so incredibly soon to be obsoleted. :(

But you gotta start sometime... :)
 
Rob Babcock

Rob Babcock

Moderator
I'd take the 3805. I currently have a 3802, and will probably take the plunge when I can afford it. The 3805 does everything I would want and more- plenty of digital inputs for any conceivable system, plenty of component inputs for all my game systems. Upsampling of Redbook to 24/96 via "ALPHA24", plus some very good DSPs (Yammie has more, but it's not about quantity to me- just quality). I love the "Denon sound," if you will. CAUTION: I currently own six Denon peices, including CD players, DVD player & receiver, so consider me biased! :) If I ever was to step up from that it would be too a Lexicon or Meridan pre-pro (assuming I had the coin). Honestly, my current Denon is very nice, but I would like more digital inputs. Most modern HT receivers have far more things than most people will ever use.

If you can afford it, the MA Silver series is superb, too. Yeah, you guessed it- I've got many Monitor speakers, too! :p But I've used a lot of gear, and I own the stuff I like the best. At any rate, there are many pro reviews you can read if you like. My favorite site for archived reviews (aside from AH! ;) ) is Ecoustics. They have a large archive of print and e-zine reviews. They're a great source of unbiased info.

That said, I'm really jazzed on the new breed of digital amps. Sony's newer ES line of receivers has digital amps and represents a great value. I'd suggest the 3000 on up. What I'm really anxious for is a Denon model with digital amps (preferably TriPath). Those rascals have released some in Europe, but not in the US! :mad:

So much good stuff, so little time (and, er, money :p ).
 
W

Wabbit_Swayer

Junior Audioholic
I put another vote in for the 3805 as well. I've used it with the 3910, and love it. ANd like Rob said, it has more features that you know what to do with.
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
I would go for the Denon. I am a Yamaha owner and fan. I love my Yamaha stuff. I also love the Denon products. This may sound cheesy, but if I already had a Denon dvd player, I would choose a Denon receiver. Not that it matters if you have different brands in your system, but it would look better. And they are both top picks. IMO :cool:
 
L

Leprkon

Audioholic General
Rob Babcock said:
I'd take the 3805.

That said, I'm really jazzed on the new breed of digital amps. Sony's newer ES line of receivers has digital amps and represents a great value. I'd suggest the 3000 on up. What I'm really anxious for is a Denon model with digital amps (preferably TriPath). Those rascals have released some in Europe, but not in the US! :mad:

So much good stuff, so little time (and, er, money :p ).
When I looked over the Sony ES line in November, they were getting slaughtered on some sites for build quality. They obviously have a ways to go.

As Rob says, the Denon is probably the most solid pick.
 
HEET SEEKER R1

HEET SEEKER R1

Enthusiast
No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Leprkon said:
it's the best of times... it's the worst of times...

while it's true that quality sound has never been so cheap, it's also true that sound has never been quite so unsettled.. with everything from "true" (or "native") 7.1 encryption on a disk to Blue-Ray versus HDCD and component versus DVI versus HDMI video inputs to all be shaking out (in theory) within the next 18 months, nearly every major function of an A/V receiver is in a state of flux.

the days of the long-term stability of a standard DVD (10 years) and even-longer term stability of CD (nearly 20) are ending as we knew them. Today's purchase has never been so incredibly soon to be obsoleted. :(

But you gotta start sometime... :)
So your telling me that my $1,500 Denon 3910 S (paid $1,000 for it) is soon to be obsolete?

How so? HD DVD players? I just don't get how they could improve the picture quality already...should I sell my DVD player and wait a while?

What should I do? I was told by specialists that a good high end setup could last up to 10 years with no problems. I was told the only piece that might be replaced every 3 years would be the reciever...
 
HEET SEEKER R1

HEET SEEKER R1

Enthusiast
Thanks again guys for taking the time to help me out. I can tell you that in the last two weeks I've learn so much about this stuff...new hobby indeed.

So far I think I'm leaning towards the 3805 S...but am little worried that it will be obsolete by the time I buy it. :(
 
Nomo

Nomo

Audioholic Samurai
The $800 Yamaha Best Buy is selling about is probably the HTR-5790. Does it blow away the Denon? Not a chance. While I think feature wise the Denons may be a bit over priced, The 5790 certainly is not better than the 3805.

As far as your player is concerned; obsolete is not the right term. Out dated? yeah, welcome to the club. Yours mine and everybody's will fall into that category this year.

I wouldn't worry too much about the 3805 being outdated real soon.

BTW, if you like the HTR-5790 you can do a heck of a lot better than $800.
Screw BB on that price. I got my RX-V1500, it's predecesor the 1400 being internally the same as the 5790, for $600 with Yamaha warranty.
 
HEET SEEKER R1

HEET SEEKER R1

Enthusiast
Sad...

NomoSony said:
The $800 Yamaha Best Buy is selling about is probably the HTR-5790. Does it blow away the Denon? Not a chance. While I think feature wise the Denons may be a bit over priced, The 5790 certainly is not better than the 3805.

As far as your player is concerned; obsolete is not the right term. Out dated? yeah, welcome to the club. Yours mine and everybody's will fall into that category this year.

I wouldn't worry too much about the 3805 being outdated real soon.

BTW, if you like the HTR-5790 you can do a heck of a lot better than $800.
Screw BB on that price. I got my RX-V1500, it's predecesor the 1400 being internally the same as the 5790, for $600 with Yamaha warranty.
Its kinda sad considering that I haven't even received the order yet...so technically the DVD player in which costs more than my previous entire home theater system is dated before I even get to hook it up. Thats my luck of course.

So a $300 HD DVD Player is going to have better picture than my $1,500 Denon?

How soon are these (f**king :D ) HD DVD players coming? When is the Denon HD unit coming out and how much do you think its going to cost?

How so will it be better than my unit?

Thanks.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Blu-Ray Disc (BD) or HD-DVD should see some limited release this year and will hopefully reach mainstream stores more often by mid 2006. If we are lucky, they will all hit a little earlier, but no bets from me on that. They are both designed first and foremost as recordable formats so almost no player may be available without record capabilities - unlike the DVD player.

Expect resolution of 2-4 times that of your current DVD player with better encoding algorhythms.

If you haven't gone into a store OTHER than Best Buy/Circuit City yet, find some good audio stores in your area and at least take a look at some good stuff. Specialty stores typically have a couple 'low-end' pieces which will be about 500 bucks - or more than about 90% of what is at Best Buy. They should also have stuff running into the thousands of dollars. While Yamaha and Denon rule the $1,000.00 market (for good reason) you may want to look at separates like Rotel gear with a decent amp to really get rolling with high end if you want some wow factor.

Is it to late to return your Monster cables? Read the thousands of other posts about the general consensus of how much value you got for your cash.

Definitive Mythos speakers are awesome for a high WAF speaker. They aren't the most reasonably priced nor the best sounding if you simply want the best sound and don't have to contend with the wife, then there are better options.

Velodyne subwoofers - DD-18 is close to the best on the market in my opinion. Serious, serious, serious bass with a lot of control in integrating with your other speakers. Something like 5 grand for that sub though.
 
HEET SEEKER R1

HEET SEEKER R1

Enthusiast
BMXTRIX said:
Blu-Ray Disc (BD) or HD-DVD should see some limited release this year and will hopefully reach mainstream stores more often by mid 2006. If we are lucky, they will all hit a little earlier, but no bets from me on that. They are both designed first and foremost as recordable formats so almost no player may be available without record capabilities - unlike the DVD player.

Expect resolution of 2-4 times that of your current DVD player with better encoding algorhythms.
==========================================

OMG! 2 to 4 times better resolution? Even with HDMI cables? I think I'll shoot myself now...

So I basically have less than a year to enjoy my over-priced DVD player.

When will Denon release an HD DVD player? How much will they cost when they first come out? Give me a ball park figure...thanks.

:( :mad: :( :mad: :eek: :confused: :eek:
 
Rob Babcock

Rob Babcock

Moderator
I wouldn't reserve one at my dealer, yet. ;) Firstly, it really looks like HD-DVD and Blu-ray will be launched about the same time and be locked in a deadly format war. If both thrive it would be a first as far as I know. So which will "win" the war? Sony is backing Blu-ray and is including a B-r drive in their Playstation 3. And a lot of studios are falling in line with them. On the other hand, Microsoft is backing HD-DVD and they too have a lot of studios on board.

I have gone on the record as saying I wouldn't spend a load of coin on a standard DVD player right now. But having said that, if you already have, it's not like it'll be wasted. You'll probably be looking at a couple years at least before one format asserts it's dominance and gives you a good selection of movies. Think back to the launch of DVD- how long did it take before most of the things you wanted to watch were available?

Yes, I'm sure Denon will release a player for whichever format ends up dominating. It's hard to even speculate what the initial prices will be.

My advice: relax and enjoy what I'm guessing is a fantastic machine.
 
HEET SEEKER R1

HEET SEEKER R1

Enthusiast
Rob Babcock said:
I wouldn't reserve one at my dealer, yet. ;) Firstly, it really looks like HD-DVD and Blu-ray will be launched about the same time and be locked in a deadly format war. If both thrive it would be a first as far as I know. So which will "win" the war? Sony is backing Blu-ray and is including a B-r drive in their Playstation 3. And a lot of studios are falling in line with them. On the other hand, Microsoft is backing HD-DVD and they too have a lot of studios on board.

I have gone on the record as saying I wouldn't spend a load of coin on a standard DVD player right now. But having said that, if you already have, it's not like it'll be wasted. You'll probably be looking at a couple years at least before one format asserts it's dominance and gives you a good selection of movies. Think back to the launch of DVD- how long did it take before most of the things you wanted to watch were available?

Yes, I'm sure Denon will release a player for whichever format ends up dominating. It's hard to even speculate what the initial prices will be.

My advice: relax and enjoy what I'm guessing is a fantastic machine.

Thanks again for your uplifting and informative response...

I hope to learn a lot more from Rob...as soon as I get over my semi-depression...LOL.

But really thanks...I will enjoy it when it finally gets here...
 
L

Leprkon

Audioholic General
HEET SEEKER R1 said:
Thanks again guys for taking the time to help me out. I can tell you that in the last two weeks I've learn so much about this stuff...new hobby indeed.

So far I think I'm leaning towards the 3805 S...but am little worried that it will be obsolete by the time I buy it. :(
I think the 3805 is software upgradeable for new DTS/Dolby/whatever formats, so it has several good years left in it.
 
C

Cuteman

Audioholic Intern
Hey Hey now.

I work at Best Buy, IN the home theatre department. I am quite well read, and would never tell someone the Yamaha, is better than anything denon. unfortunately, this is not the case with everyone @ BB.
You are incorrect, best buy DOES carry Denon, but only in its stores with an integrated Magnolia home theatre.

For your setup, I'd suggest Def Tech 7000 Series (self powered floor speaker with big woofers [i.e., no need for a sub really]) and some M&K k7's or Boston Acoustic 120mx's for rears, then a def tech center channel.

Denon 2805 (3805 DOES have a better processor, but for most things it's overkill, esp since this will allow you to spend more on speakers)

For everyone here squabbling over HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, and regular DVD consider this ... When HD and Blu Ray PLAYERS come out, they will NOT be a mere 300, consider 500+, with the phillips recorder thats already been released costing 2000-2500.

The titles being supported will not be everything under the sun. (esp when a full capacity Blu-Ray blank disk is rumored to cost around 60 bucks, obviously that will come down, especially for commercial studios making movies to sell, but blanks for us will cost a lot for a while)

The question is, will people have a television, and more importantly the cabling required to support 1920 x 1200 HD resolution that true HD is scaled down from. Laughable that 1265x 768 is so amazing, when there's almost double that available, however unplayable by the masses.
 
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