Building a new 5.1 system.... but Sub?

M

moxxen

Audiophyte
Hi everyone, I'm new to the website and learning a ton thanks to everyone and all the info on this site.

I am upgrading my very old sony 5.1 in a box system from 2005... And with my budget i have come up with the following..

Receiver: YAMAHA RX-V6A 7.2-Channel
Center: MK442 Dual 4" 2-Way Center Channel Speaker
Stereo: MK442 Dual 4" 2-Way Center Channel Speaker

Surrounds: going to use my satellite Sony's i have currently. till more money to upgrade.

but what sub should i get.? I am looking at two subs, but open to others... currently thinking ether

Klipsch R-120SW. $399
or
Monolith M10-S 10" Sealed. $499

is the monolith overkill for a small room?
room size 20feet length x 12feet width

Thanks in advance !
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
Hold on a second. Your budget allocation is all messed up.
What's your total budget for the receiver for the speakers and for the subwoofer

Yamaha TSR-7000

Ascend Acoustics CBM-170

Or

Ascend Acoustics CMT-340

Dayton Sub-1200
 
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M

moxxen

Audiophyte
want to spend 600 for a receiver.
was planing on 50 for center and 100 on left/Right
and was planning on 400-500 ish on a sub. Figured thats where i would spend the most..

Was looking at the YAMAHA RX-V6A 7.2 incase i want to add atmos speakers later on.

Not a Costco member.. whats the price on the TSR-7000? only difference i see in the RXV6a is Stereo vs Mono Subs.. so thats cool.

only thing is i'm not a fan of big tower speakers.. since this is a small room i share with my family.

By the way.. Thank you so much for all this info already..
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
I know what all the individual items cost. So your total budget is $1300.
Your budget should break down something like this approximately
50% speakers
25% subwoofer
25% electronics

This is a good foundation for quality sound and performance. Your L/C/R speakers are the most important.

The Costco Yamaha TSR-7000 is almost the same as the Yamaha RX V6A for $399

And the Ascend speakers are not "big tower speakers"

And the system I linked is the same budget
 
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M

moxxen

Audiophyte
Soooo If i raise my budget of my main speakers without letting my wife know :)

how about
Center: CMT-340 SE CENTER
and left/right i get the CBM-170 SE bookshelf.

Is www.ascendacoustics.com a ok place to order speakers from directly?
 
rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
Wow, I've been gone for a while. It seems in my absence all the good boutique bookshelf speakers have gone off the market. No more Affordable Accuracy monitors, no more Wavecrest HVL-1, no more of the Monoprice ribbon tweet set... Is Ascend Acoustics now the lowest common denominator for rock bottom budgets?

Also, try not to mix and match among different brands or different product lines between your main LR speakers and your center channel. You want your entire front stage to be composed of speakers of similar timbre.

Well, my vote would be for the Emotiva Airmotiv for LCR. Fluance Elite for bipolar surrounds. RSL Speedwoofer 10s. Then whatever AVR you can find on Craigslist or Accessories4Less within the rest of your budget.
 
rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
Soooo If i raise my budget of my main speakers without letting my wife know :)

how about
Center: CMT-340 SE CENTER
and left/right i get the CBM-170 SE bookshelf.

Is www.ascendacoustics.com a ok place to order speakers from directly?
That would be a solid set. And yes, ascendacoustics.com is ok to order speakers from directly. Hover over Purchase --> System Advisor to build your cart. Also, their least expensive sub, the Rythmik LV12F, would sufficiently shake things off the walls in your 20x12 room I think. They also give you a discount for ordering the sub with speakers. Also, they have a pair of B stock CBM-170 that would save you another $50.
 
rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
Oooh, look what I found. If you don't mind used, you should jump on this for LCR:


That'll free up a ton of money for monster subwoofage -- Dual Hsu VTF-2 MK5, for example.
 
Truthslayer

Truthslayer

Full Audioholic
Hi everyone, I'm new to the website and learning a ton thanks to everyone and all the info on this site.

I am upgrading my very old sony 5.1 in a box system from 2005... And with my budget i have come up with the following..

Receiver: YAMAHA RX-V6A 7.2-Channel
Center: MK442 Dual 4" 2-Way Center Channel Speaker
Stereo: MK442 Dual 4" 2-Way Center Channel Speaker

Surrounds: going to use my satellite Sony's i have currently. till more money to upgrade.

but what sub should i get.? I am looking at two subs, but open to others... currently thinking ether

Klipsch R-120SW. $399
or
Monolith M10-S 10" Sealed. $499

is the monolith overkill for a small room?
room size 20feet length x 12feet width

Thanks in advance !
Mazersteven gave pretty good advice on the AVR and speakers recommendation. The only thing i would have to disagree with is the sub option.
No the Monolith is not overkill. No such thing when it comes to subwoofers. You can always turn it down if needed. However when not having enough output, not much you can do other upgrading or adding another sub.
If your going to use for movies, then you should really go with a ported sub. If you feel the need for having it sealed, you can always plug the port. Which i doubt you will ever need to do.

Here are a couple quick videos for you watch that may help your sub decision.
Monoprice Monolith 10, 12 and 15-inch Subwoofers Review - YouTube

The Monolith THX 10 Subwoofer is MORE THAN ENOUGH for Most People - YouTube
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
I have to agree with some of the above, your budget is a bit lopsided towards the sub. And if you were going to get the Monolith sub, it should be the ported version. It is a great sub though.

If you want to maximize sound quality on that budget, I am going to suggest a very different route. This route will get you a system that sounds way better than anything you can get that includes an AVR. I think it would blow the doors off of any of the above-recommended system, but it is a bit unorthodox.

First, depending on your source, I would get an HDMI audio extractor. Here is an inexpensive one. Here is one that is a bit pricier. Connect that with the optical out to a good DAC with a TOSLINK optical input and Balanced outputs. Here is a very good and inexpensive one. Connect those to some good powered monitors using XLR to XLR cables, and my top choices are the Kali LP-8, PreSonus Eris E8 XT, ADAM Audio T8V, or the JBL LSR308 mk2. On the Schiit Modius, use the unbalanced RCA outputs to connect to the sub. The Monoprice THX 10" Select is a great sub, but the Hsu VTF-2 mk5 offers quite a bit more performance while being only $100 more.

This cost of all that would be about 1200 to 1500 depending on what components you select exactly, so it can be about the same price as you are already intending to spend. The disadvantage is that you are stuck with a two channel system. The advantage is it is just going to sound way better and be far more accurate than any surround system with a receiver that you can buy for the same price. It will also have far more dynamic range, like you can get near true THX Reference levels if you select the right stuff.

I have experience with many of the products mentioned so far in this thread and understand the performance class and product class very well. There is no way I would trade the system I outlined above for anything else mentioned in this thread- and I even like most of the products that have been recommended so far. But it's just not on the same level.

Something else to consider is that the main advantage of a surround sound system isn't the surround channels, it's the inclusion of a center channel. The center speaker anchors dialogue to the center of the soundstage for those who are listening at odd angles, i.e., they are off to the side. The problem is, all of the center speakers you are looking at are enormously compromised; they have real response problems off-axis which pretty much defeats the point of a center speaker to begin with! Just skip the center speaker! You are already on a tight budget, don't spend money on a component that has middling returns.

As for surround channels, contrary to popular belief, surrounds don't really add much to a movie-watching experience. They are a distraction when they are not dialed in correctly (which is like half the time), and they only add subtle immersion effects when they are correctly used. They are very disposable, and if someone just disconnected them while you were watching a movie, you would never even know they are gone.

To boil the above two points down to a sentence, a good two-channel system is way better than a mediocre five-channel system. Trust me, if you compared the two-channel system you can get in your budget with the five-channel system you can afford, the difference would be pretty stark; you would go for the two-channel system every time. A powerful, full, accurate sound with true deep bass is going to be much better than a constrained sound with noises coming from the sides of the room.
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
I guess the term "Surround Sound System" is just pretend since surrounds "don't really add much to a movie-watching experience".

I guess we should call these systems something else like "Center Sound Systems" or "L/C/R Sound Systems"

512x512bb.png


No longer will our systems be known as Surround Sound Systems
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
I guess the term "Surround Sound System" is just pretend since surrounds "don't really add much to a movie-watching experience".

I guess we should call these systems something else like "Center Sound Systems" or "L/C/R Sound Systems"
That is a good idea, and I agree whole-heartedly!
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
I have to agree with some of the above, your budget is a bit lopsided towards the sub. And if you were going to get the Monolith sub, it should be the ported version. It is a great sub though.

If you want to maximize sound quality on that budget, I am going to suggest a very different route. This route will get you a system that sounds way better than anything you can get that includes an AVR. I think it would blow the doors off of any of the above-recommended system, but it is a bit unorthodox.

First, depending on your source, I would get an HDMI audio extractor. Here is an inexpensive one. Here is one that is a bit pricier. Connect that with the optical out to a good DAC with a TOSLINK optical input and Balanced outputs. Here is a very good and inexpensive one. Connect those to some good powered monitors using XLR to XLR cables, and my top choices are the Kali LP-8, PreSonus Eris E8 XT, ADAM Audio T8V, or the JBL LSR308 mk2. On the Schiit Modius, use the unbalanced RCA outputs to connect to the sub. The Monoprice THX 10" Select is a great sub, but the Hsu VTF-2 mk5 offers quite a bit more performance while being only $100 more.

This cost of all that would be about 1200 to 1500 depending on what components you select exactly, so it can be about the same price as you are already intending to spend. The disadvantage is that you are stuck with a two channel system. The advantage is it is just going to sound way better and be far more accurate than any surround system with a receiver that you can buy for the same price. It will also have far more dynamic range, like you can get near true THX Reference levels if you select the right stuff.

I have experience with many of the products mentioned so far in this thread and understand the performance class and product class very well. There is no way I would trade the system I outlined above for anything else mentioned in this thread- and I even like most of the products that have been recommended so far. But it's just not on the same level.

Something else to consider is that the main advantage of a surround sound system isn't the surround channels, it's the inclusion of a center channel. The center speaker anchors dialogue to the center of the soundstage for those who are listening at odd angles, i.e., they are off to the side. The problem is, all of the center speakers you are looking at are enormously compromised; they have real response problems off-axis which pretty much defeats the point of a center speaker to begin with! Just skip the center speaker! You are already on a tight budget, don't spend money on a component that has middling returns.

As for surround channels, contrary to popular belief, surrounds don't really add much to a movie-watching experience. They are a distraction when they are not dialed in correctly (which is like half the time), and they only add subtle immersion effects when they are correctly used. They are very disposable, and if someone just disconnected them while you were watching a movie, you would never even know they are gone.

To boil the above two points down to a sentence, a good two-channel system is way better than a mediocre five-channel system. Trust me, if you compared the two-channel system you can get in your budget with the five-channel system you can afford, the difference would be pretty stark; you would go for the two-channel system every time. A powerful, full, accurate sound with true deep bass is going to be much better than a constrained sound with noises coming from the sides of the room.
Definitely agree with some of the above on this. But I have to put one up for the other side. While the inclusion of a center channel IS a huge benefit of a surround system, IMO and IME surround speakers and Atmos as well, shouldn’t be discounted so easily. I will agree in that, if there’s a HARD budget limit, the majority definitely needs to be placed on the front. But the surrounds should be included, even if it means using lesser ones until the time when they can be upgraded. I also agree too many times they’re set up completely wrong(too hot or placed poorly etc) and serve to distract. But with careful placement and level control, the user should hav a great
experience.
Just ME and MO.
 
rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
The problem is, all of the center speakers you are looking at are enormously compromised; they have real response problems off-axis which pretty much defeats the point of a center speaker to begin with!
Am I misremembering the listening window response of the Affordable Accuracy center?

Anyway, I agree that an excellent 2ch is preferable to a mediocre 5.1ch. But I don't know that it's a good idea to recommend the sort of kludge that excludes the convenience of using an AVR for source switching and signal processing.

I've been fighting a similar battle on my downstairs television trying to get consistent sound on an analog Pioneer soundbase, making available a Nintendo Switch, a Roku, over-the-air broadcast TV, DLNA streams, and a Blu-Ray player. It's been a struggle to get some 5.1ch source content to downmix to stereo without losing the center channel content, and it's not an inconvenience I'd wish on anyone, even if I knew them to be technologically proficient.

If my wife weren't insistent on keeping a minimalist appearance with the downstairs television, I'd much rather use an AVR with pre-amp outs, even if I hooked nothing up to its amplified speaker outputs. So I say all that to say, if someone can use an AVR, an AVR may save some headache during day-to-day operation, even with amplified monitors.

(Incidentally, I've pretty much solved my issues with a combination of a DTS / AC3 decoder DAC and forcing my Roku to output Dolby Digital only.)
 
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S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Am I misremembering the listening window response of the Affordable Accuracy center?

Anyway, I agree that an excellent 2ch is preferable to a mediocre 5.1ch. But I don't know that it's a good idea to recommend the sort of kludge that excludes the convenience of using an AVR for source switching and signal processing.

I've been fighting a similar battle on my downstairs television trying to get consistent sound on an analog Pioneer soundbase, making available a Nintendo Switch, a Roku, over-the-air broadcast TV, DLNA streams, and a Blu-Ray player. It's been a struggle to get some 5.1ch source content to downmix to stereo without losing the center channel content, and it's not an inconvenience I'd wish on anyone, even if I knew them to be technologically proficient.

If my wife weren't insistent on keeping a minimalist appearance with the downstairs television, I'd much rather use an AVR with pre-amp outs, even if I hooked nothing up to its amplified speaker outputs. So I say all that to say, if someone can use an AVR, an AVR may save some headache during day-to-day operation, even with amplified monitors.

(Incidentally, I've pretty much solved my issues with a combination of a DTS / AC3 decoder DAC and forcing my Roku to output Dolby Digital only.)
Hey Rojo, that is a good point. If the OP has a lot of sources, maybe an AVR is a better route. Still, $1300 can get a 2 channel system that can kick an unbelievable amount of ass. A 5.1 system with passive speakers and an AVR can not challenge it in terms of sound quality. But you are right, there are potential problems if sources can not downmix to 2 channel correctly.
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
I hear what you guys are saying, and might agree if looking for a 2 channel music rig.
But still feel 5 CBM-170's w/ sub would be a Great budget 5.1 system.
 

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