Budget Sub question - JBL 550P vs Polh HTS 12

[William Lemmerhirt]

My only experience was with the very basic Energy ESW-8 (came with the Take set), but never expected much from a cheap 8" sub (altho it still lives!). I did read generally good things about their S-10.3 fwiw. Like you said, a speaker company more doing subs as matching accessories rather than serious subs for the most part. There are some really good prices on the Studio 5 series speakers going on now, as well as this sub from that series.

Yeah, it seems like there’s been a lot of JBL sales going on. I’d really like to see what’s in store after the current studio line. I was super excited when I saw them released, but the waf here will probably have me going to revel, if staying with Harmon at upgrade time.(really want to get something from legacy) One of our guys here(damned if I can remember right now!!!) got the 550 when it first came out and inspired a bunch of others to get one and they all liked em.

I think energy has always been well regarded, and the OP’s 10” was probably decent, for what it was but I have to think in the last ten years there are small subs available that easily outclass it.
After thinking, I think it would truly be worth it for the OP to check out the RSL speedwoofer. IMO it’s better than the JBL or Polk, and it’s only 50 bucks more the the Polk.
https://rslspeakers.com/products/rsl-speedwoofer-10s/

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

+, like, 10,000,000 to this.
Distortion, in any form, is often confused as "loud." For me, my old toy HTIB Sub made sh!t rattle... not because it was POWERFUL, but because it was distorted. Once the distortion was eliminated (for me, it was the AVR processing the signal), the sub actually performed much better, and at higher gain than I could employ previously.

Yeah man, for sure. I remember the first time I watched Peter Jackson’s King Kong after I got my first real sub. There’s a scene that leads into the famous T-Rex battle, and early in the scene, Kong comes out of this cave, and for the first time, not only did I hear/feel depth like never before, but it was so clean and linear and realistic and dynamic. I knew then that my bass journey had begun.

 

[ryanosaur]

I knew then that my bass journey had begun.

Once I got my subs in and hooked up... underneath some old Rat Shack LS50s with the Linaeum Tweets, I put on this Gorillaz album I had downloaded a while back...
5 minutes later my ears were numb. Same result.
Shady's Subwoofer Candy only reinforced it.
And if ever there was a doubt... The Netflix Godzilla Anime would've solved that. Might have been in Part 2 where there was something like a 90 second battle of pure, unadulterated, structure-settling, infrasonic love fest.
My subs were fine.
How the Lady didn't come to the door to brace herself for the San-Andreas-snapping mayhem... I don't know.

Oh, right.

She probably rolled her eye's so hard it righted the ship and saved the house.

You get your Legacys... Don't forget the subs... I'll still bring the beer!

I'll keep working on learning how to build out 2-3 dual driver TQWT Subs to support my 3s! When they're ready... I'll call.
Lovin', you're invited too!

 

[lovinthehd]

I think I'd still rather have the dual JBL deal than one Speedwoofer 10s....kinda depends what you want for the money now and maybe more down the line, too....

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Once I got my subs in and hooked up... underneath some old Rat Shack LS50s with the Linaeum Tweets, I put on this Gorillaz album I had downloaded a while back...
5 minutes later my ears were numb. Same result.
Shady's Subwoofer Candy only reinforced it.
And if ever there was a doubt... The Netflix Godzilla Anime would've solved that. Might have been in Part 2 where there was something like a 90 second battle of pure, unadulterated, structure-settling, infrasonic love fest.
My subs were fine.
How the Lady didn't come to the door to brace herself for the San-Andreas-snapping mayhem... I don't know.

Oh, right.

She probably rolled her eye's so hard it righted the ship and saved the house.

You get your Legacys... Don't forget the subs... I'll still bring the beer!

I'll keep working on learning how to build out 2-3 dual driver TQWT Subs to support my 3s! When they're ready... I'll call.
Lovin', you're invited too!

L. M. A. O. I know that “eye roll”.
I WILL have my legacy’s!!! Lol. And Chris and I will come and drink west side IPA’s and whiskey.

I can’t wait...

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I think I'd still rather have the dual JBL deal than one Speedwoofer 10s....kinda depends what you want for the money now and maybe more down the line, too....

I would generally be inclined to agree, but I think the rsl has better deep bass prowess, and if @OaktownPete is going to place the new sub in the same place and only go single(for about the same price as the Polk) I think it’s a better sub.

 

[lovinthehd]

FWIW https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/rsl-speedwoofer-10s

 

[KirkJBL590]

Therein lies my confusion. -10db imo is DOA. So sending frequencies an octave below where the subs capabilities are does what? I do know about Subharmonic fwiw.
I do believe such a device would be a lot of fun with older music that was mixed a little “light” on bass, or if you were mixing some dubstep in the studio etc.

-10db is the defined frequency range of a pro audio loudspeaker. In fact, that rating is slowly floating over to home audio depending on brand and speaker designer compared to +/-3b. Andrew Jones uses this spec in his engineering of speakers. This is not very difficult to understand. All of this hinges on your room as you have clearly stated in an earlier response.

As i have tried to explain, the DBX is split into two different frequency adjustments. You can dial in where you want the subharmonics to come into play. You're not simply adding subharmonic to the bottom roll off of the subwoofer. The key is to bring in subharmonics right around or above the roll off within the allowable adjustments of the device.

So in other words, you use the synthesized frequency knobs along with the level control bringing in the right amount of harmonic to your liking. You can leave alone 24-36 while bringing up 36-56 or visa versa. Or use a little of both. You are adjusting harmonic in those frequency ranges. Not just one frequency. All depends on your room, subwoofers you have and what you like. I hope that i explained it well so you can understand.

 

[lovinthehd]

-10db is the defined frequency range of a pro audio loudspeaker. In fact, that rating is slowly floating over to home audio depending on brand and speaker designer compared to +/-3b. Andrew Jones uses this spec in his engineering of speakers. This is not very difficult to understand. All of this hinges on your room as you have clearly stated in an earlier response.

As i have tried to explain, the DBX is split into two different frequency adjustments. You can dial in where you want the subharmonics to come into play. You're not simply adding subharmonic to the bottom roll off of the subwoofer. The key is to bring in subharmonics right around or above the roll off within the allowable adjustments of the device.

So in other words, you use the synthesized frequency knobs along with the level control bringing in the right amount of harmonic to your liking. You can leave alone 24-36 while bringing up 36-56 or visa versa. Or use a little of both. You are adjusting harmonic in those frequency ranges. Not just one frequency. All depends on your room, subwoofers you have and what you like. I hope that i explained it well so you can understand.

Lost me, got something that explains it better?

 

[KirkJBL590]

Lost me, got something that explains it better?

I don't wear a chain that can be yanked... I've seen many of your posts. You understand clearly.

 

[lovinthehd]

I don't wear a chain that can be yanked... I've seen many of your posts. You understand clearly.

No, I have not played with something that furthers subharmonics at all, nor do I understand how lower frequencies will manifest with such a dropoff your sub exhibits below f3...

If you've got something where AJ explains perhaps...

ps Remember I've seen several of your posts with bizarre thought process, so there's that, too.

 

[KirkJBL590]

No, I have not played with something that furthers subharmonics at all, nor do I understand how lower frequencies will manifest with such a dropoff your sub exhibits below f3...

If you've got something where AJ explains perhaps...

When i have some time, i will post some supportive documentation that explains subharmonics. I would recommend you explore YouTube. There are many good videos explaining harmonics. Music is all about harmonics. In order to understand, you need to think outside of the frequency spectrum that we all learn in this hobby and move over to the music side of things. If you log onto the Harman Website, type in the DBX 120A and start there. Read what it does. All musical notes contain a harmonic and it correlates with frequency. Its a very interesting subject to study up on and helps you understand music, movie soundtracks and what we are actually hearing when we listen.

The DBX extracts the subharmonic bass frequencies that are naturally and already in music and movie soundtracks and plays it back along with normal bass frequency that we can hear and feel. There is a music guy on YouTube that explains it well and i will go and try to find it for you...

 

[ryanosaur]

"...the dbx process actually produces a new, Waveform Modeled™ bass note, exactly an octave below the bass in the original audio." from: https://dbxpro.com/en/products/120a#documentation

 

[lovinthehd]

I'll look some more at the dbx info. Still wondering how the lower frequency info manifests itself at useful volume with the sub dropping off like that.

ps after a brief look, was thinking of lower range....it doesn't seem to do much beyond the capabilities of the CV pro subs kirk has....

 

[lovinthehd]

As far as spending time on youtube listening to some guy with a video camera and an ego most times....nah.

 

[KirkJBL590]

As far as spending time on youtube listening to some guy with a video camera and an ego most times....nah.

Pretty sad of you to think that way. I've learned more on YouTube about our hobby from reputable people including Gene than any audio/video magazine in the last 30 years.

Forums, Google and YouTube will supply you with enough information to where you can really be knowledgeable about all areas of our hobby and that's including music and what's really in music and movie soundtracks.

I explained it pretty well. I just don't think you want to put out the effort to learn about it any further and that's fine but don't expect a guy on here to put out the effort if you are not willing to do some of the work yourself.

 

[ryanosaur]

I used tricks like that when I was performing on stage... recorded with them too. Music school and music theory was lots of fun. So was electronic music class, both analog and digital.

This device synthesizes a note one octave below the source material. Smoke and mirrors. It runs a parallel octave below the tone and does not change the harmonics involved in the raw tone being modified. A low E on bass guitar is 41.2Hz... an octave below is 20.6Hz. If a 5-string Bass employs the low B string, that's 30.8Hz and an octave below that is 15.4Hz (lower than Grand Organs like the one at Notre Dame!). Using the Bass guitar example... the first harmonic of that note is E, 1 octave higher (~82Hz), then B an octave and a fifth up, then E two octaves up (~165Hz). The fundamental is not being changed. That low E is the fundamental frequency.

Most of us want to reproduce the source material as accurately as we can. Not alter it.

Please don't mistake this as chain pulling, Kirk. I am not interested in arguing, or baiting you. I do respectfully disagree with you.

Cheers!

 

[KirkJBL590]

I used tricks like that when I was performing on stage... recorded with them too. Music school and music theory was lots of fun. So was electronic music class, both analog and digital.
This device synthesizes a note one octave below the source material. Smoke and mirrors. It runs a parallel octave below the tone and does not change the harmonics involved in the raw tone being modified. A low E on bass guitar is 41.2Hz... an octave below is 20.6Hz. If a 5-string Bass employs the low B string, that's 30.8Hz and an octave below that is 15.4Hz (lower than Grand Organs like the one at Notre Dame!). Using the Bass guitar example... the first harmonic of that note is E, 1 octave higher (~82Hz),then B an octave and a fifth up, then E two octaves up (~165Hz). The fundamental is not being changed. That low E is the fundamental frequency.
Most of us want to reproduce the source material as accurately as we can. Not alter it.
Please don't mistake this as chain pulling, Kirk. I am not interested in arguing, or baiting you. I do respectfully disagree with you.
Cheers!

That's fine, if you want to think its a gimmick, go right ahead bro, its no sweat off my balls. Most movie theaters in America has or is still using the device for movie playback so i guess they're all full of $hit too. Harman doesn't put out gimimics so suit yourself...

 

[lovinthehd]

Pretty sad of you to think that way. I've learned more on YouTube about our hobby from reputable people including Gene than any audio/video magazine in the last 30 years.

Forums, Google and YouTube will supply you with enough information to where you can really be knowledgeable about all areas of our hobby and that's including music and what's really in music and movie soundtracks.

I explained it pretty well. I just don't think you want to put out the effort to learn about it any further and that's fine but don't expect a guy on here to put out the effort if you are not willing to do some of the work yourself.

I'm just not built that way, prefer to read. Audio/video magazines are mostly useless anyways. I do find youtube helpful on some specific diy stuff around the house. I do understand what it does now, and that it somewhat fits in with your sub's capabilities, just not what I'd do to fatten the bass.....it's a preference thing.

 

[KirkJBL590]

I'm just not built that way, prefer to read. Audio/video magazines are mostly useless anyways. I do find youtube helpful on some specific diy stuff around the house. I do understand what it does now, and that it somewhat fits in with your sub's capabilities, just not what I'd do to fatten the bass.....it's a preference thing.

This hobby is about having fun. What works for me may not work for you. If you sat in my theater and heard my system, believe me, you would feel differently. I have a good pair of ears and have been doing this for over 30 years. What sounds good to me may not sound very good to you. That's what makes us all different. Every Forum is full of criticism about everything.