Budget receiver/amp solution for 2.1 setup

[werdswerf]

Hey folks!

First-time poster here. I've been lurking in home theater forums across the interwebs, and this one seems the most replete with strong opinions and sound advice.

I bought a nice Pioneer plasma for my apartment about a year ago, and have been using the display's on-board speakers since then. I finally decided that it's time to build an audio setup that matches the quality of the image, but I don't have the space for 5.1. (I also listen to a lot of music, so I've decided that a 2.1 setup would probably serve me best right now.)

My sources are as follows:

• Xbox 360 (HDMI out)
• PlayStation 3 (HDMI out)
• Nintendo Wii (Component out)
• Gaming/Home Theater PC (HDMI out)

For speakers and a subwoofer, I'm strongly considering Magnepan MMGs and a HSU STF-2 sub. I understand the speakers' limitations - they're highly directional, finicky about placement and have unique power requirements - but they seem like a true budget performer that I could grow into.

That leaves me with some strange criteria for a receiver/amplifier in this setup. I need:

• Plenty of power (100+ watts) at 4 ohms
• 3 HDMI inputs and one HDMI output
• A component input and output for the Wii (unless it's possible for a box to convert a component signal into an HDMI signal - I have no clue about this stuff)

And (at least at the moment) I don't need surround capabilities. I'd also like to spend less than $1500 total for this setup, leaving me with about $600 to spend on these components.

So, what am I looking for? Is there a receiver that meets these criteria, or do I need to cobble together something myself? Is this the right route for me to take, or should I go with a more conventional bookshelf/tower setup?

Thanks for your input!

~Jordan

 

[Adam]

Welcome to the forum, Jordan!

Out of your list of things that you want/need:

• Plenty of power (100+ watts) at 4 ohms
• 3 HDMI inputs and one HDMI output
• A component input and output for the Wii (unless it's possible for a box to convert a component signal into an HDMI signal - I have no clue about this stuff)

The one that I think needs to be focused on in your price range is #1 - power at 4 ohms. Many receivers aren't rated for 4-ohm loads. That doesn't mean that they can't do it, but they might go into protection mode. 3 HDMI inputs is doable in that price range, and upconverting component video to HDMI is pretty easy, too.

Let me look around a bit. Others here might have ideas off the tops of their heads, but I want to check some things.

 

[Adam]

I'm going to defer to those on here who have researched this more. The Onkyo 805 looks like it would work and prices had dropped into your range, but getting one doesn't seem easy anymore because it's been replaced by the 806 (which some people are saying isn't as good).

If I were you, I'd contact Magnepan and ask them which receivers they'd recommend for those speakers.

 

[jostenmeat]

I bought a nice Pioneer plasma for my apartment about a year ago. . .

My sources are as follows:

• Xbox 360 (HDMI out)
• PlayStation 3 (HDMI out)
• Nintendo Wii (Component out)
• Gaming/Home Theater PC (HDMI out)

That leaves me with some strange criteria for a receiver/amplifier in this setup. I need:

• Plenty of power (100+ watts) at 4 ohms
• 3 HDMI inputs and one HDMI output
• A component input and output for the Wii (unless it's possible for a box to convert a component signal into an HDMI signal - I have no clue about this stuff)

And (at least at the moment) I don't need surround capabilities. I'd also like to spend less than $1500 total for this setup, leaving me with about $600 to spend on these components.

So, what am I looking for? Is there a receiver that meets these criteria, or do I need to cobble together something myself? Is this the right route for me to take, or should I go with a more conventional bookshelf/tower setup?

Thanks for your input!

~Jordan

Hmmm....

First of all, you'd have to think a lot less hard if you run the Wii video directly to the TV. You might have a hard time finding an AV receiver that would process the video any better. Otherwise, yes, there are receivers that will can transcode to HDMI, or process the video at the same time as well.

If the receiver can't process the video inputs (and to the extent that it's even worth it), then the above would be my recommendation.

The main reason to point this out is that you can then just get a 2ch system, so to speak, whether an "integrated" (w/o tuner), stereo receiver (with tuner), or separates.

Then again, you can get an entry HT receiver acting as "pre/pro", with a decent outboard 2ch amplifier. In fact, I think for the moment, this is where I would lean. The main reason being that you could add a center speaker easily at any time you wish. If you bought "2 channel" electronics, you' have to buy the new receiver/prepro when you wanted to add that center.

If you are 100% certain that you will never want a center speaker, then you can stick with the dedicated 2ch stuff. Oh, almost forgot, you need the HT receiver/prepro to get what is called the LFE, which is the dedicated subwoofer track on movies.

***So, yeah, I vote entry HT receiver + outboard 2ch amp, with component from Wii directly to TV. For instance, a Yamaha 663 ($350ish) and Emotiva UPA2 ($300) comes out to only $650ish or so. Oh**, the Yammy will transcode the component untouched thru HDMI, IIRC.

I'm just thinking out loud.

 

[skers_54]

Hmmm....

First of all, you'd have to think a lot less hard if you run the Wii video directly to the TV. You might have a hard time finding an AV receiver that would process the video any better. Otherwise, yes, there are receivers that will can transcode to HDMI, or process the video at the same time as well.

If the receiver can't process the video inputs (and to the extent that it's even worth it), then the above would be my recommendation.

The main reason to point this out is that you can then just get a 2ch system, so to speak, whether an "integrated" (w/o tuner), stereo receiver (with tuner), or separates.

Then again, you can get an entry HT receiver acting as "pre/pro", with a decent outboard 2ch amplifier. In fact, I think for the moment, this is where I would lean. The main reason being that you could add a center speaker easily at any time you wish. If you bought "2 channel" electronics, you' have to buy the new receiver/prepro when you wanted to add that center.

If you are 100% certain that you will never want a center speaker, then you can stick with the dedicated 2ch stuff. Oh, almost forgot, you need the HT receiver/prepro to get what is called the LFE, which is the dedicated subwoofer track on movies.

***So, yeah, I vote entry HT receiver + outboard 2ch amp, with component from Wii directly to TV. For instance, a Yamaha 663 ($350ish) and Emotiva UPA2 ($300) comes out to only $650ish or so. Oh**, the Yammy will transcode the component untouched thru HDMI, IIRC.

I'm just thinking out loud.

+1. I'm using a cheap HTR for my 2 ch setup and it works well. My speakers aren't nearly as difficult loads as the Maggies though.

One issue is that the Yammy only has 2 HDMI inputs and you list 3 components that use that connection. Accessories4less has a refurb Marantz for a similar price that has 3 HDMI inputs. It won't convert component to HDMI though.
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR4003/Marantz/SR4003-Dolby-Digital-EX/DTS-ES-Surround-Receiver-/1.html

You could also look into a Behringer A500 amp if you wanted to save a bit.
http://www.audiolines.com/product.php?productid=12906

 

[Highbar]

HDMI switches aren't too expensive so I wouldn't stress that you need 3 inputs if the receiver fits the rest of your requirements. I would say of all them the 4ohm rating is going to be the most important thing to find.

 

[werdswerf]

Thanks for the replies, guys! There's another possibility that I didn't consider until this afternoon, and I wonder if it has any merit. My TV itself seems to have some basic receiver functionality - it has L and R RCA outputs and a subwoofer output. I'm not sure about the quality of the signal it's putting out, but if it was acceptable and I could simply pipe that into an amplifier, that would save me a lot of money. Does this idea have legs? And if so, what's a solid two-channel amplifier (for $500 or less) that could supply a pair of Maggies 200 or so watts at 4 ohms?

 

[Adam]

Not a bad idea.

You'd want to make sure that the left/right audio outputs are variable and controlled by the volume setting on the TV. Some TVs only have fixed outputs, so you couldn't control the volume without an external volume control. We could check that for you if you are uncertain. Just let us know the model number of your TV.

Also, does your TV have enough inputs for all of the gear that you listed?

 

[werdswerf]

Hey Adam,

The TV is a Pioneer PDP-4280. And it does have enough inputs for everything I've listed. I don't mind needing a separate remote control for the amplifier if the TV out is unaffected by the TV's volume control - I'm mainly concerned about sound quality and price.

Thanks again for the help!

 

[Adam]

Hey Jordan,

I didn't see in the owner's manual any mention of if the analog outputs are fixed or variable. However, if they are fixed, the TV does have a headphone output jack that you could connect to an amp and use with the volume control on the TV. The manual does mention the possibility of a delay between the video and audio when using the analog outputs - just a heads up on that.

 

[Highbar]

Hey Adam,

The TV is a Pioneer PDP-4280. And it does have enough inputs for everything I've listed. I don't mind needing a separate remote control for the amplifier if the TV out is unaffected by the TV's volume control - I'm mainly concerned about sound quality and price.

Thanks again for the help!

You wouldn't be able to do that for one major reason... Amps don't have volume control. The processor changes the volume that it sends to the amp so if the TV's out is fixed you would only have one volume. Some amps have a gain control but that is more for fine tuning than changing the volume.

 

[lsiberian]

Hey folks!

First-time poster here. I've been lurking in home theater forums across the interwebs, and this one seems the most replete with strong opinions and sound advice.

I bought a nice Pioneer plasma for my apartment about a year ago, and have been using the display's on-board speakers since then. I finally decided that it's time to build an audio setup that matches the quality of the image, but I don't have the space for 5.1. (I also listen to a lot of music, so I've decided that a 2.1 setup would probably serve me best right now.)

My sources are as follows:

• Xbox 360 (HDMI out)
• PlayStation 3 (HDMI out)
• Nintendo Wii (Component out)
• Gaming/Home Theater PC (HDMI out)

For speakers and a subwoofer, I'm strongly considering Magnepan MMGs and a HSU STF-2 sub. I understand the speakers' limitations - they're highly directional, finicky about placement and have unique power requirements - but they seem like a true budget performer that I could grow into.

That leaves me with some strange criteria for a receiver/amplifier in this setup. I need:

• Plenty of power (100+ watts) at 4 ohms
• 3 HDMI inputs and one HDMI output
• A component input and output for the Wii (unless it's possible for a box to convert a component signal into an HDMI signal - I have no clue about this stuff)

And (at least at the moment) I don't need surround capabilities. I'd also like to spend less than $1500 total for this setup, leaving me with about $600 to spend on these components.

So, what am I looking for? Is there a receiver that meets these criteria, or do I need to cobble together something myself? Is this the right route for me to take, or should I go with a more conventional bookshelf/tower setup?

Thanks for your input!

~Jordan

My suggestion is that you look at accessories4less and the harman kardon store on for the receiver.

Get the cheapest HDMI repeating one you can find. Then pair it with a 2 channel or 3 channel amp from Emotiva. Or even a Behringer ep2500.

The idea is your PS3 takes care of the new formats. So you only need HDMI repeating and you want to use the receiver to drive your surrounds later on down the line. Which doesn't have to be fancy or expensive. I use KEF 2001.2s but just about anything will work. Personally I like the initial sound of my HK amp better than I did my Onkyo. Though the features on the Onkyo were very nice. And can't be over valued.

 

[Adam]

Amps don't have volume control.

True, but integrated amps do, like this little beauty here. Only 75W into 4 ohms, though, and no remote control.

 

[werdswerf]

Hey Adam,

I just tried it out myself. Plugged my tube headphone amp into the L/R RCA outs, and while the volume wasn't controllable via my TV's remote, there was no perceptible delay in the sound.

That leaves me with two questions: 1) What's a good two-channel amplifier that can drive a pair of Maggies for under $500? and 2) Would this setup even make sense?

~Jordan

 

[lsiberian]

Hey Adam,

I just tried it out myself. Plugged my tube headphone amp into the L/R RCA outs, and while the volume wasn't controllable via my TV's remote, there was no perceptible delay in the sound.

That leaves me with two questions: 1) What's a good two-channel amplifier that can drive a pair of Maggies for under $500? and 2) Would this setup even make sense?

~Jordan

I think we've already given you some good suggestions.

I think Emotiva makes good budget amps.

A Behringer Ep2500 could also be used, but make sure you don't push the speakers to hard with it.

I suggest you find one with XLR if you ever want to use an EQ. If not then don't worry about it.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17004

That's the A500 review where Wmax recommends it. Wmax is very knowledgeable person on amps and speakers. Way more so than I. If he says it's good it probably is.

 

[Adam]

I'll add something else. If you're going to use the TV as your pre/pro, then I'd suggest using the headphone output that is controlled by the TV's volume control instead of the fixed analog outputs on the back of the TV. The reason is that the subwoofer output will be controlled by the volume on the TV, and I think it best to keep the levels of the main speakers and subwoofer calibrated to each other.

 

[werdswerf]

I'll add something else. If you're going to use the TV as your pre/pro, then I'd suggest using the headphone output that is controlled by the TV's volume control instead of the fixed analog outputs on the back of the TV. The reason is that the subwoofer output will be controlled by the volume on the TV, and I think it best to keep the levels of the main speakers and subwoofer calibrated to each other.

Are you sure that the subwoofer out would be affected by the TV's volume control if the L/R RCA outs aren't? I definitely want the sub and the speakers to be effected by the same volume control. Do any integrated amps have a sub pass-through that is affected by the volume control?

 

[Adam]

Are you sure that the subwoofer out would be affected by the TV's volume control if the L/R RCA outs aren't? I definitely want the sub and the speakers to be effected by the same volume control. Do any integrated amps have a sub pass-through that is affected by the volume control?

I'm not positive that the sub output is affected by the volume, but it's the only thing that makes sense to me. I'm sure that the sub output is there for use when people are using the TV speakers and want additional bass. You now have me wondering about your plan, because the analog outputs (or headphone output) are probably not affected by a crossover frequency and therefore you'd be doubling up the sub frequencies between your sub and your main speakers. I suggest that you check the manual for your TV to see if there's any mention of that. I could do that tonight if you have any trouble with that.

 

[mjbuoni]

I second the Behringer EP2500 amp suggestion. Just an incredible amp for the money ($300 shipped). I'm using it to drive a pair of AV123 LS6's and the detail, imaging and dynamics that it is capable of don't leave me wanting for more anytime soon.